# Curly or Shemp? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 18, 2014, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curly-or-shemp/681576 "2014-02-18T01:26:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curly-or-shemp/681576/41 "2014-02-18T20:00:40Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > They were considering having Emil Sitka (“Hold Hands, you Lovebirds” – [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNoE1iBkC2s](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNoE1iBkC2s) ) fill in for Larry Fine after his debilitating stroke. He even apparently filled that role in live performance. But there was some problem – he wanted too much money, or his ego got in the way, or something – and he never made any movies or TV performances as a proper Stooge. They simply discontinued the act. The problem was that Moe died not long after the publicity pictures were taken. They had plans for a movie with Moe, Larry, and Emil, but because Moe was too ill to perform it was done with the remaining Ritz Brothers instead. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curly-or-shemp/681576/42 "2014-02-18T20:09:08Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > Not to pick nits, but the original Curly’s last name was Howard, not Joe…which is the one I’m assuming you’re talking about in this post (and although you just say “Joe”, I assume you’re not talking about Joe Besser at all). He was Moe’s (and Shemp’s) brother. No, I was talking about Joe Besser. It would have been quite a stunt for Jerome (Curly) Howard to have been in the Abbott & Costello TV series, as he died before the series began. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curly-or-shemp/681576/43 "2014-02-18T22:19:29Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > [Emil Sitka](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emil_Sitka) was in lots of the shorts, just not as a Stooge. He was the hapless scientist, butler, photographer, etc. I think [Vernon Dent](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernon_Dent) was in even more Stooge shorts than Emil was. They were both certainly great. As for the topic at hand, I always loved Curly, but preferred Shemp. Shemp was the “subtle Stooge” to me - always had some sort of subtle expression or move beyond the obvious slapstick. He also had most of the best lines. Like “I feel like a piece of French toast!” or “Give me another drink; I can still see her face!” ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curly-or-shemp/681576/44 "2014-02-18T22:32:15Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > [Emil Sitka](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emil_Sitka) was in lots of the shorts, just not as a Stooge. He was the hapless scientist, butler, photographer, etc. I knew… I meant “Never in any of the shorts as one of the three stooges”, haha. I guess I should have been more clear, sorry about that. 🙂 You’re right. ---
**Author:** ![Cumberdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@Cumberdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cumberdale)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curly-or-shemp/681576/45 "2014-02-19T00:16:24Z")
Curly with Shemp just behind him. One thing I have found interesting is that Moe wanted Mantan Moreland as Shemp’s replacement. [http://cravenlovelace.com/cravenblog/2008/08/the-stooge-that-almost-was/](http://cravenlovelace.com/cravenblog/2008/08/the-stooge-that-almost-was/) That would have been a very interesting choice and it’s a shame it never happened. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curly-or-shemp/681576/46 "2014-02-19T01:05:43Z")
Curly, forever! ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curly-or-shemp/681576/47 "2014-02-19T03:21:51Z")
I think you could say that Shemp was the thinking man’s Stooge. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curly-or-shemp/681576/48 "2014-02-19T04:48:51Z")
I’m surprised there are any who would choose Shemp over Curly. Curly was sui generis, with originality and perfect delivery, the Groucho of the Stooges. Without Curly, they never would have made it. Shemp was very enjoyable in the stuff he did and did it well, playing a much more likeable character than Moe, but what a chump. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curly-or-shemp/681576/49 "2014-02-19T04:53:34Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I think you could say that Shemp was the thinking man’s Stooge. Well, let’s not overdo it. > [@Cumberdale](#): > > One thing I have found interesting is that Moe wanted Mantan Moreland as Shemp’s replacement. [http://cravenlovelace.com/cravenblog...at-almost-was/](http://cravenlovelace.com/cravenblog...at-almost-was/) As cool as that sounds, I’m dubious. I’ve never heard that before. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curly-or-shemp/681576/50 "2014-02-19T08:02:15Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > I think [Vernon Dent](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernon_Dent) was in even more Stooge shorts than Emil was. They were both certainly great. > > As for the topic at hand, I always loved Curly, but preferred Shemp. Shemp was the “subtle Stooge” to me - always had some sort of subtle expression or move beyond the obvious slapstick. He also had most of the best lines. Like “I feel like a piece of French toast!” or “Give me another drink; I can still see her face!” One of my favorite’s of Shemp’s: “Hold yer horses! Rome wasn’t built in a day, and neither was Syracuse!” 😃 That said, Curly IMHO was just the more naturally funny of the two. As for Joe Besser, I didn’t care for him much. But he did one gag that always made me laugh. He drops a whole bunch of eggs on the floor. He cleans it up by dousing the eggs in wine/vinegar, blow-torching the whole thing alight, essentially scrambling the eggs, then scooping it all up with a shovel! Moe has a great line in response to this: “A frustrated short-order cook - this guy must be from outer space!” 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Cumberdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@Cumberdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cumberdale)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curly-or-shemp/681576/51 "2014-02-19T13:19:01Z")
> [@bup](#): > > As cool as that sounds, I’m dubious. I’ve never heard that before. As far as I can tell the source came from an interview with Moe by Michael H. Price and was related in his book _Mantan the Funnyman: The Life and Times of Mantan Moreland_. In it Moe is quoted as saying that Columbia insisted dismissed the idea. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curly-or-shemp/681576/52 "2014-02-19T14:23:27Z")
Curly is the most natural one to like. He’s the child in all of us. If you’ve never seen the Stooges before, you should make a Curly show your first one. Shemp is much more subtle, he was a brilliant comic but doesn’t have the universal appeal that Curly did. So I like them both, though I think the Curly shows were better if only because by the time Shemp returned to the act, the quality and originality of the series had already peaked. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curly-or-shemp/681576/53 "2014-02-19T16:12:57Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I think you could say that Shemp was the thinking man’s Stooge. I agree. I like the one where they are tailors or dry cleaners and some thugs are after some money left in the clothes. [https://archive.org/details/sing\_a\_song\_of\_six\_pants](https://archive.org/details/sing_a_song_of_six_pants) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curly-or-shemp/681576/54 "2014-02-19T16:18:48Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Curly is the most natural one to like. He’s the child in all of us. If you’ve never seen the Stooges before, you should make a Curly show your first one. From the Church of the Subgenius: [Are you a Moe, a Curly, or merely a Larry?](http://www.subgenius.com/bigfist/classic/classicrants/RUaMOE.html) > [@](#): > > There are three kinds of people in this world. I know, you’ve heard that before. Everybody has their ‘three types’ of people, or their four types or five types. Many only list two types: those who divide people into two types, and those who don’t. But there are three, and the models for these types come neither from psychology nor ancient religion. They come from Columbia Studios, and they are archetypally embodied in The Three Stooges. > > … > > There is but a small percentage of Moes in any given population: perhaps 5%. There are even fewer Curlys. The vast bulk of humanity are Larrys. > > … > > Moe is the active personality, and if not always dominant, always striving to be. Moe is the one who spurs the others into action. He devises plans to better their lot, but when his plans fail the other two suffer the consequences. But is Moe any less the fool for that they follow his plans? > > … > > But Larry is a born follower, a blank slate that only reacts (and slowly at that) to exterior stimuli. He never initiates action. He is Moe’s absolute tool, the truest ‘stooge.’ When Moe’s abuse finally does make him angry, he lashes out not at Moe, but at Curly. No matter how he suffers under Moe’s yoke, he never really rebels. He argues, but gives up easily. > > … > > Curly is the only likeable one, a truly rare human model. He is the holy man, the Divine Fool. He is as creative and active as Moe, but it is a spontaneous and joyous kind of creativity, no good for the kind of plotting and scheming required by a Moe-dominated society. He is a free spirit, but correspondingly unable to function well in a world of Moes and Larrys. He, like Larry, is perpetually abused, but he intuitively understands what is happening to him and reacts far more angrily – if equally ineffectually. He is everyone’s favorite Stooge because he is the funniest; through his inate nobility and natural humility he constantly bests Moe, but it is in an unconscious way, and it is only apparent to the outside observer. Curly himself is hardly aware of his talents; his weakness is that he does not know his own strength, and cannot trust his own luck. ---
**Author:** ![cjepson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9adbd/32.png) [@cjepson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cjepson)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curly-or-shemp/681576/55 "2014-02-19T17:51:24Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Curly. > > Don’t get me wrong, Shemp had his good points. But Curly was a Divine Fool. I agree. Curly was one of the great [augustes](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clown#Auguste) of the 20th century (with Moe taking the whiteface role and Larry as the contra-auguste). ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curly-or-shemp/681576/56 "2014-02-19T20:04:37Z")
Every time I pass this thread in the subscribed listing I get a hankering for some curry shrimp. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curly-or-shemp/681576/57 "2014-02-19T21:02:45Z")
Another one of these, eh? To be brutally honest, I wouldn’t want to have sex with either of them. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curly-or-shemp/681576/58 "2014-02-19T21:06:24Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > From the Church of the Subgenius: [Are you a Moe, a Curly, or merely a Larry?](http://www.subgenius.com/bigfist/classic/classicrants/RUaMOE.html) Looking at _Sing a Song of Six Pants_, (1947) one can see how the films had changed from the days of Curly at his peak (early 1930s). There is less ‘action’, more jokes. [https://archive.org/details/sing\_a\_song\_of\_six\_pants](https://archive.org/details/sing_a_song_of_six_pants) Take _Punch Drunks_, for instance (1934). [http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xydwe\_three-stooges-punch-drunks-1\_shortfilms](http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xydwe_three-stooges-punch-drunks-1_shortfilms) Curly was in his early 30s in 1934 (born 1903). Shemp was in his 50s in 1947 (born 1895). ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curly-or-shemp/681576/59 "2014-02-19T21:16:38Z")
There was also the fact that as time went on violent slapstick was falling out of favor. By the Curly-Joe era Moe and the boys made the decision to tone down (but not eliminate) the slapping. From the book One Fine Stooge: > [@](#): > > The Stooges of the new era adopted a policy of toning down the smacks and punches unless it really came out of the comedy or routine. Props will still fall, pies will fly, and accidental slips on a wet floor will still occur, but “a poke for the sake of a poke isn’t funny any more” said Moe in a 1960 Los Angeles Examiner interview. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curly-or-shemp/681576/60 "2014-02-19T21:28:29Z")
> [@Doug\_K](#): > > There was also the fact that as time went on violent slapstick was falling out of favor. By the Curly-Joe era Moe and the boys made the decision to tone down (but not eliminate) the slapping. > > From the book One Fine Stooge: Yeah, in _Sing a Song of Six Pants_, the individual bits are funny without involving slapping as such. Moe making pancakes on the press, Larry trying to remove a spot of sunlight, and Shemp trying to iron curled-up trousers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curly-or-shemp/681576.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/curly-or-shemp/681576.md?page=4)