# Current fusion state of the art? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 15, 2011, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-fusion-state-of-the-art/574845 "2011-03-15T23:00:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2011, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-fusion-state-of-the-art/574845/41 "2011-03-19T23:49:29Z")
> [@WarmNPrickly](#): > > But the world isn’t filled with an infinite supply of gallium, germanium, cadmium, selenium, indium, copper, tin, and manufacturing plants capable of producing miles and miles of semi-conductor grade electronics at a pace that would out match the rate at which solar panels lose their power producing capacity not to mention that they don’t take well to physical damage from winds storms and the other elements. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-fusion-state-of-the-art/574845/42 "2011-03-20T00:06:21Z")
> [@](#): > > Is he referring to the NIF (National Ignition Facility), a giant laboratory laser which will (hopefully) perform nuclear fusion in a laboratory for the first time? Because I can’t find anything saying that the project was killed. Performing fusion in a laboratory has been done plenty of times; it’s easy. You can build a cheap tabletop device that’ll do it. What’s hard is doing it such that you get more useable energy out of the reaction than what you put in to make it happen. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-fusion-state-of-the-art/574845/43 "2011-03-20T00:09:39Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > Cite? Do you really need a cite that solar panels degrade and/or can be damaged by bad weather? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-fusion-state-of-the-art/574845/44 "2011-03-20T02:41:35Z")
> [@markdash](#): > > Is he referring to the NIF (National Ignition Facility), a giant laboratory laser which will (hopefully) perform nuclear fusion in a laboratory for the first time? Because I can’t find anything saying that the project was killed. The NIF will fuse a pellet of fuel with a zillion watt laser. There is no method to gather the energy released. From that I gather that it is more to study high power fusion reactions to validate theories about how H bombs work. It makes no sense from power generating point of view. ---
**Author:** ![WarmNPrickly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d78d45/32.png) [@WarmNPrickly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WarmNPrickly)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-fusion-state-of-the-art/574845/45 "2011-03-20T02:46:00Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > Cite? USA power consumption 1x10^20 joules in 2007 [http://www.eia.doe.gov/analysis/](http://www.eia.doe.gov/analysis/) Presentation marked “Annuall Energy Outlook Reference Cases” 12 watts/sqfoot > **[SolarPanelStore.com : Everything you need to go solar!](https://www.solarpanelstore.com/)** > > At SolarPanelStore.com we provide everything needed for our customers to go solar! Grid-Tie, Off-Grid, Remote Power Systems, RV and Marine Systems, and more! We also specialize in solar battery and solar rack systems. Contact us today for a greener... 1yr = 365 days = 8,760 hours = 525,600 min = 31,536,000 sec 31,536,000 sec x 12 watts = 378,432,000 joules per sqfoot 1x10^20 joules / 378,432,000 joules per sqfoot =2.64x10^11 sqfeet =9478 sqmiles This is approximately the size of the entire state of Rhode Island. From Wikipediahttp://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadmium\_telluride\_photovoltaics > [@Wikipedia](#): > > Typical CdTe layer thicknesses are about 3 micrometres, so there are 9.3 g/m2 I know how some don’t like to trust Wikipedia, but the numbers are calculated for you to see yourself in the references. 2.64x10^11 sqfeet = 2.45x10^10 sqmeters x 9.3 g/sqmeters =2.28x10^11 g Te = 228,000 metric tons of Tellurium World production of Tellurium in 2007: \<400 tons > **[Seeking Alpha | Stock Market Analysis & Tools for Investors](https://seekingalpha.com/#article/55845-reality-check-first-solar-and-tellurium/)** > > Join Seeking Alpha, the largest investing community in the world. Get stock market news and analysis, investing ideas, earnings calls, charts and portfolio analysis tools. Of course there are configurations other than Cadmium Telluride. I’ve put enough effort into this that I don’t feel it’s up to me to cover every possible configuration. If Superman says he can fly, it’s not up to me to prove he can’t. ---
**Author:** ![markdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-fusion-state-of-the-art/574845/46 "2011-03-20T03:10:00Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > The NIF will fuse a pellet of fuel with a zillion watt laser. There is no method to gather the energy released. From that I gather that it is more to study high power fusion reactions to validate theories about how H bombs work. It makes no sense from power generating point of view. I didn’t mean to imply that it was some sort of fusion reactor or power plant. But I’m curious what project it was that was “killed”. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-fusion-state-of-the-art/574845/47 "2011-03-20T04:29:44Z")
I don’t know. It was probably a change in administration. The Dems try to get the government to research some tech that the Reps want to keep entirely private. Back in the 70s the government spent a lot on high mileage super safe cars and the first thing Reagan did was have the prototypes and all plans destroyed. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-fusion-state-of-the-art/574845/48 "2011-03-20T05:17:42Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > I don’t know. It was probably a change in administration. The Dems try to get the government to research some tech that the Reps want to keep entirely private. Back in the 70s the government spent a lot on high mileage super safe cars and the first thing Reagan did was have the prototypes and all plans destroyed. Sounds like Snopes fodder to me. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-fusion-state-of-the-art/574845/49 "2011-03-20T05:18:45Z")
> [@WarmNPrickly](#): > > USA power consumption 1x10^20 joules in 2007 > > [http://www.eia.doe.gov/analysis/](http://www.eia.doe.gov/analysis/) > > Presentation marked “Annuall Energy Outlook Reference Cases” > > 12 watts/sqfoot > > [http://www.solarpanelstore.com/](http://www.solarpanelstore.com/) > > 1yr = 365 days = 8,760 hours = 525,600 min = 31,536,000 sec > > 31,536,000 sec x 12 watts = 378,432,000 joules per sqfoot > > 1x10^20 joules / 378,432,000 joules per sqfoot =2.64x10^11 sqfeet =9478 sqmiles > > This is approximately the size of the entire state of Rhode Island. > From Wikipediahttp://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadmium\_telluride\_photovoltaics > I know how some don’t like to trust Wikipedia, but the numbers are calculated for you to see yourself in the references. > > 2.64x10^11 sqfeet = 2.45x10^10 sqmeters x 9.3 g/sqmeters =2.28x10^11 g Te = 228,000 metric tons of Tellurium > > World production of Tellurium in 2007: \<400 tons > > [http://seekingalpha.com/#article/55845-reality-check-first-solar-and-tellurium/](http://seekingalpha.com/#article/55845-reality-check-first-solar-and-tellurium/) > Of course there are configurations other than Cadmium Telluride. I’ve put enough effort into this that I don’t feel it’s up to me to cover every possible configuration. If Superman says he can fly, it’s not up to me to prove he can’t. How much Silicon is there in the world? ---
**Author:** ![WarmNPrickly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d78d45/32.png) [@WarmNPrickly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WarmNPrickly)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-fusion-state-of-the-art/574845/50 "2011-03-20T07:31:57Z")
Who gives a shit. Without enough of any one component, the whole thing falls apart. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-fusion-state-of-the-art/574845/51 "2011-03-20T13:17:04Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > How much Silicon is there in the world? Go to the nearest beach. See all that sand? Silicon Dioxide, lots and lots of Silicon Dioxide. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-fusion-state-of-the-art/574845/52 "2011-03-20T13:57:04Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > Go to the nearest beach. See all that sand? Silicon Dioxide, lots and lots of Silicon Dioxide. Great. I bet that stuff causes cancer doesnt it? ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-fusion-state-of-the-art/574845/53 "2011-03-20T19:34:49Z")
> [@Autolycus](#): > > I hear some old scientist in California is working on a miniature fusion reactor that is able of producing the still-amazing output of 1.21 gigawatts. That’s the infamous eccentric-but-always-effective Dr. Brown, and the output is surprisingly huge. In fact, it’s measured in [JIGAwatts](http://live.drjays.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/future460.jpg)! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-fusion-state-of-the-art/574845/54 "2011-03-20T19:54:38Z")
“Jiga” is a variant pronunciation of “Giga”. It’s still spelled the same and means the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-fusion-state-of-the-art/574845/55 "2011-03-20T20:29:41Z")
Both the Jigawatt and the infamous Dr. Brown were comments whose tongue-to-cheek ratio were of an order of magnitude approaching a fusion-powered whoosh. A jiga-whoosh? Btw, I always prefer to think of Doc Brown’s Flux Capacitor capable of soooo much power that he had to invent a new prefix “_ **Jigga-** _”. It’s _way_ beyond _ **Giga-** _ (take a left once you pass _ **Peta-** _, and straight on til morning…). ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-fusion-state-of-the-art/574845/56 "2011-03-21T10:19:18Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Great. I bet that stuff causes cancer doesnt it? At the moment, no. But no doubt it will begin to do so as soon as it’s useful for something. ---
**Author:** ![TallDave7](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@TallDave7](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TallDave7)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2011, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-fusion-state-of-the-art/574845/57 "2011-03-25T17:40:29Z")
> [@markdash](#): > > I didn’t mean to imply that it was some sort of fusion reactor or power plant. But I’m curious what project it was that was “killed”. It was a magnetic mirror machine built in the 1980s. (NIF is something very different of course.) Fusion research funding tends to be inversely proportional to oil prices. A lot of fusion concepts got kicked off during the 1970s oil shock, and a lot died in the 1980s as oil prices fell. What gets cut and what gets saved is somewhat political, though I’m sure the tok people really believe theirs is the best concept. > **[History and Analysis -Crude Oil Prices](http://www.wtrg.com/prices.htm)** > > A discussion of crude oil prices, > the relationship between prices and rig count, the recent decline > in crude oil prices and the outlook for the future of the > petroleum industry. ---
**Author:** ![NetTrekker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nettrekker/32/2909_2.png) [@NetTrekker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NetTrekker)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-fusion-state-of-the-art/574845/58 "2011-03-26T03:13:00Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > When I was in college I got a chance to go to the Laboratory for Laser Energetics at the University of Rochester. That seemed to be the future. Obviously, they were just around the corner from getting it to continual production of electricity. > > That was in 1970. They’re still boasting about being just around the corner. I believe it’s the same corner hiding Herbert Hoover’s recovered economy. And 20 years later, I visited Princeton University’s Plasma Physics Lab and saw the Tokamak reactor. I think now it’s being used as a giant planter on campus in front of the main library. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-fusion-state-of-the-art/574845/59 "2011-03-26T11:21:50Z")
It’s already here and [been done](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Catalyzer). The secret is apparently a load of Bologna technology. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2011, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-fusion-state-of-the-art/574845/60 "2011-03-27T05:45:14Z")
> [@digs](#): > > That’s the infamous eccentric-but-always-effective Dr. Brown, and the output is surprisingly huge. In fact, it’s measured in [JIGAwatts](http://live.drjays.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/future460.jpg)! Isn’t Dr. Brown more known for his cream sodas? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-fusion-state-of-the-art/574845.md?page=2)