Current plot of Doonesbury-actual possibility?

Great Debates
41

[QUOTE=ExTank]
W may have finally :rolleyes: found his “General Grant” in the form of General Petreus. I say give the guy a chance.

It may yet be a case of “too little, too late.” With barely 90 days in-theater to make his mark, I think it is too early to call the game. Speaking stricly for myself, though, I have little patience left for the General shuffle.
[/QUOTE]

Look, Ex, it’s too late. Four years too late. Kill every last one of the insurgents and there will be a new crop tomorrow. Success in this war/occupation has been impossible since the day they fired the practical, realistic General Garner and replaced him with neocon ideologue Paul Bremer (story here).

42

[QUOTE=Marley23]
Look, your basic point is correct: this is what happens in a political disagreement over a war. But the above comment is absurd. Some of the soldiers over there didn’t sign up for the military, they’re members of the National Guard. So in a literal sense they didn’t sign up, at least not for this, and I’m sure some of them feel like they need saving.
[/QUOTE]

The national guard, is part of the military. You do realize they do drill every month for a reason, and they’re trained to use military weapons for a reason. They’re not active duty, that doesn’t mean that when they were signed up they were oblivious to the fact they could be called up.

43

[QUOTE=Martin Hyde]
The national guard, is part of the military. You do realize they do drill every month for a reason, and they’re trained to use military weapons for a reason. They’re not active duty, that doesn’t mean that when they were signed up they were oblivious to the fact they could be called up.
[/QUOTE]
I expect most of them expected to serve as the National Guard; to do things like quell riots or help with natural disasters like Katrina. Not to get sent off as more cannon fodder to prop up Bush’s ego while the jobs they are supposed to do go undone.

44

The problem is that we don’t need a Grant; we need a Lincoln.

45

[QUOTE=Der Trihs]
I expect most of them expected to serve as the National Guard; to do things like quell riots or help with natural disasters like Katrina. Not to get sent off as more cannon fodder to prop up Bush’s ego while the jobs they are supposed to do go undone.
[/QUOTE]

What they expected is irrelevant; they took the oath. Their duty is defined by the Commander-in-Chief. See Perpich v. Dept. of Defense.

46

[QUOTE=Little Nemo]
The problem is that we don’t need a Grant; we need a Lincoln.
[/QUOTE]

We need a civil war? We need to suspend habeus corpus and imprison any dissenters to the President’s war?

Edit: perhaps you’re right. Perhaps we need a Sherman.

47

[QUOTE=Der Trihs]
I expect most of them expected to serve as the National Guard; to do things like quell riots or help with natural disasters like Katrina. Not to get sent off as more cannon fodder to prop up Bush’s ego while the jobs they are supposed to do go undone.
[/QUOTE]

They probably should have read the (not so fine) print then, ehe? :stuck_out_tongue:

-XT

48

[QUOTE=ExTank]

But that doesn’t necessarily equate to approval of the Dems. “cut & run” strategy, either.
[/QUOTE]

As opposed to the Bush “He dissed my Daddy” strategy? :slight_smile:

49

[QUOTE=carnivorousplant]
As opposed to the Bush “He dissed my Daddy” stratefy? :slight_smile:
[/QUOTE]

They say blood is thicker than water; perhaps it’s thicker than oil, too?

50

[QUOTE=ExTank]
They say blood is thicker than water; perhaps it’s thicker than oil, too?
[/QUOTE]

I might agree with that…are you whooshing me?

51

[QUOTE=Der Trihs]
I expect most of them expected to serve as the National Guard; to do things like quell riots or help with natural disasters like Katrina. Not to get sent off as more cannon fodder to prop up Bush’s ego while the jobs they are supposed to do go undone.
[/QUOTE]

It also occured to me that Kansas, like the other 49 states and various territories and possessions, is free to raise their own State Defense Force that is NOT beholden in any way to Uncle Sam.

Then they’d have their emergency responders at their beckon call when their National Guard is away doing their jobs.

52

[QUOTE=ExTank]

Then they’d have their emergency responders at their beckon call when their National Guard is away doing their jobs.
[/QUOTE]

Seems like Governor Faubus would have done something like that in 1957 rather than having the Arkansas National Guard brought into the US Army. :slight_smile:

ExTank, do you have a link as to what the National Guard’s job is?

53

[QUOTE=carnivorousplant]
I might agree with that…are you whooshing me?
[/QUOTE]

Nah, just making obscurely sage references in order to appear wiser than I truly am.

Seriously, in the grand scheme of things, Bush the elder’s “dis” on Saddam was orders of magnitude greater than any “oh yeah?!” retaliation from Saddam. I seriously doubt that Saddam’s attempt on Daddy Shrub was little more than the sprinkling of walnuts on top of the logic sundae W assembled as his reasons for going into Iraq.

Look, the “W Plan,” under whatever pretext, was IMHO to build a strategic counterbalance to Iran. Afghanistan can’t fullfil that role, due to its paucity of natural resources; Iraq is, prima facie, a much better candidate.

It’s one of the reasons I don’t entirely buy into the theory put forth buy Palast.

[QUOTE=carnivorousplant]
Seems like Governor Faubus would have done something like that in 1957 rather than having the Arkansas National Guard brought into the US Army. :slight_smile:

ExTank, do you have a link as to what the National Guard’s job is?
[/QUOTE]

United States National Guard Official Website

About The Guard

United States National Guard

See also Perpich v. D.O.D. Short version of Perpich: The Nat’l Guard is a Federal agency under the D.O.D., and Uncle Sam gets first dibs on 'em.

54

[QUOTE=ExTank]
What they expected is irrelevant; they took the oath. Their duty is defined by the Commander-in-Chief. See Perpich v. Dept. of Defense.
[/QUOTE]
It’s not irrelevant; going against their expectations to this degree is a great way to make sure that you get minimal cooperation, low morale, a low rate of reupping, and low recruiting. Whether it’s legal barely matters.

55

[QUOTE=Der Trihs]
It’s not irrelevant; going against their expectations to this degree is a great way to make sure that you get minimal cooperation, low morale, a low rate of reupping, and low recruiting. Whether it’s legal barely matters.
[/QUOTE]

The military exists to preserve democracy, not practice it. When my unit at Ft. Hood was activated for Gulf War I, a lot of the young “two-year only” guys were bitching and complaining that they didn’t join to go to war; they were just in it for the college money.

Tough shit. They chose to be in the military, signed the dotted line, and accepted Uncle’s salt. Now when it’s time to step up, all of a sudden their pussy hurts?

My ass bleeds purple piss water for them.

I will agree with you in this regard: all too often, recruiters are less than candid with recruits about the full extent of the military commitments expected of people who wear the uniform. And yes, this can lead to hard feelings and long-term negative consequences for morale, retention, and recruiting.

But Jesus-Jumped-Across-Jordan-On-A-Pogo-Stick, DT, It’s the military!

Kill-A-Commie-For-Mommy, Make-The-Other-Poor-Dumb-Bastard-Die-For-His-Country, United States Armed Forces! What do people think our job is, to cuddle cute wittle bunny wabbits hopping through the pwimal fowest?

No! It’s to kill the enemy, as defined by the Commander-in-Chief, as passed down through the lawful orders of the commissioned officers of the United States Armed Forces.

And whether you shuffle paperwork, or drive a fuel truck at an airbase in bumfuck Oklahoma, or just show up one weekend a month for drill and a paycheck, it don’t matter a damn; you are part of a huge organization assembled for the purpose of inflicting grievous harm on other human beings.

If you wear the uniform, Uncle don’t owe you detailed explanations or elaborate explanations for where you go, or what you do. He only owes you beans and bullets, lawful orders, enemies to kill (or a job in furtherance of that goal), a flag draped coffin, and a rifle team firing your final salute as you’re lowered into the ground.

I wrapped my head around that simple truth at the age of 18 over 20 years ago; I kicked my “two-year-wonders” in the ass to get the concept into their thick heads in '90, to get their minds right for going to war.

President John F. Kennedy said, “Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country.”

My reply would be, “Soldier, shut up and soldier.”

56

Well said, ExTank. Would that every potential recruit be required to hear that from you or someone exactly like you before being allowed to sign on the dotted line*.

*And be required to demonstrate comprehension by means of a written exam. No T/F, no multiple guess.

57

[QUOTE=ExTank]

Look, the “W Plan,” under whatever pretext, was IMHO to build a strategic counterbalance to Iran. .
[/QUOTE]

Seems as though it would have been easier, quicker and certainly more fair for Bush to simply say “Saddam had better not attack Iran again!” and let testosterone poisoning take it’s course. :slight_smile:
Thanks for the guard information.

58

[QUOTE=ExTank]
… a lot of the young “two-year only” guys were bitching and complaining that they didn’t join to go to war; they were just in it for the college money.
[/quote]
Well, the recruiter probably shouted out about the college money and mumbled the stuff about having to go to war in a low voice.

59

[QUOTE=carnivorousplant]
Seems as though it would have been easier, quicker and certainly more fair for Bush to simply say “Saddam had better not attack Iran again!” and let testosterone poisoning take it’s course. :slight_smile:
Thanks for the guard information.
[/QUOTE]

Your welcome. And yes, with someone as stubborn and contrary as Saddam, it probably would’ve been a better “strategery.”

60

While I have you all here…
My Sunday newspaper Doonesbury always lacks the first two panels from the web version. How about yours?