# Current security measures unnecessary and undesirable. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 11, 2003, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-security-measures-unnecessary-and-undesirable/194396 "2003-08-11T15:27:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-security-measures-unnecessary-and-undesirable/194396/41 "2003-08-14T16:23:42Z")
If we enjoyed limitless resources, it might not be so offensive to throw so many at passenger air travel. But we don’t. If we wished to, we could identify a potential threat in every plane, ship, train, car, truck, bus, bridge, building, dam, stadium, etc. ad infinitum. And we could always conceive of increased security measures that could stave off hypothetical threats. You are correct in observing that alternative means of transportation exist. For example, rental trucks have proven quite effective when parked in the proper place in the WTC or OK City. Hey, is that a pair of fingernail clippers there? _NOTE:_ I and others have acknowledged that you lived through a horrific event. But this is the second time you have chosen to reference martyrdom. Tho we are in GD, if you keep up that tone, this kettle might see fit to comment on the color of your pot. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-security-measures-unnecessary-and-undesirable/194396/42 "2003-08-14T16:50:39Z")
So why doesn’t everyone just have to wear shock collars when they ride the plane. The pilots can switch them on at the first sign of trouble. Also bathroom surveillence might be good thinking. Does that go to far **tilly**? What is your limit? ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-security-measures-unnecessary-and-undesirable/194396/43 "2003-08-14T17:03:49Z")
Tilly that still leaves the “Just for Show Scenario”… are the measure really all necessary and how much of it is just to make people feel safer ? Also thou it might mean standing in line 3 hours for Americans… the increased security has meants loads of people from other countries that were in the US only to get a connection flight actually being turned back and sent home… total loss of all the money invested in a trip to Japan or Canada. Demanding a VISA for South Americans EVEN if they are only passing thru. That costs an extra US$ 120 bucks plus Travel costs because VISA are only given if the person actually goes personally to a US Consulate. (Note that many many are rejected and therefore wasted money.) ``` We are reading more and more reports of Brazilian students that arent allowed into the US even with a scholarship and an invitation, some sportsmen have also been sent back, tourists of all sorts have been rejected a VISA... Europeans now suffer greater hindrances too and are certainly spending less money in the US. So its a BIT MORE complicated than just standing in line for 3 hours. It means someone somewhere in the US will lose a job too. Less flights/passengers means less money means less employees too. ``` ---
**Author:** ![stick\_monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@stick\_monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stick_monkey)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-security-measures-unnecessary-and-undesirable/194396/44 "2003-08-14T17:28:21Z")
\*\* > [@](#): > > In this day and age it is a no brainer that security in our transportation venues has to be tightened so that it is not an inviting vehicle for a terrorist acts such the unbelievable one that was executed flawlessly two years ago. \*\* If you remember correctly there were 4 planes hijaaked that day. Only 3 hit their target, and the third only barely. I have no doubt that if the passengers of the first three planes simply knew what the goal was, they would have prevented the outcome, or at least the extent thereof. \*\* > [@](#): > > I fully believed if we maintain a no nonsense operation and for that matter the government of our allies (as today’s news shows) are helping one another in the efficient manner we will all be better off \*\* What part of ‘you cannot carry a toenail clipper on a plane’ equates to being ‘no-nonsense’? \*\* > [@](#): > > The airlines exploitation been done and it is not likely terrorist will want to use that vehicle again because of our new awareness. > > With that being said it does not mean you can dismiss it because of logic (that we might use) or statistics. \*\* No one is suggesting having NO security at airports, just that we should have, I don’t know, a functioning one. Prefferably one that doesn’t waste the time of anyone involved in the process (or as little as possible). \*\* > [@](#): > > The airlines also have to be brought to the table on this. After all at the end of the day the paying public is buying their product. You would think they would be bending over backwards to make sure the customer is not only given the best security and service possible while they take every measure available to protect their investment. \*\* The airlines, as of now, have almost ZERO control over anything in the security arena. Up until the Fed came in and took it over a few months ago, it was handled intirely by private sub-contractors hired by each individual airport. \*\* > [@](#): > > You ask me what is it that I think might happen or what present danger that I feel warrants such drastic measures. History! That is all I need to tell me that if we don’t learn from the past, we are condemned to repeat it. \*\* Again, the point we are trying to make is that the CURRENT measures DO NOTHING to prevent another hijaaking. They mearly make those americans more on the paranoid side feal a little better while wasting resources that would be better spent on a FUNCTIONING system. \*\* > [@](#): > > If something far worse than 9/11 occurs like, lets say an illegal immigrant gets in though an INS glitch or because security at an airport or port of call is less than stellar and is able to set off a dirty bomb killing not just a couple of thousand but killing hundred of thousands. \*\* Please tell me what about current security measures prevents anyone from walking into an airport (or any building for that matter) and setting off a dirty bomb strapped to their chest? \*\* > [@](#): > > You wont have worry about the constitution or civil rights because it will be lock down city and those documents will be just another historical document on the wall of a museum and you wont get to savor those right for a very long time. That will go for all of us because we will be under martial law…… > > Then you will have something to bitch about… > > Inconvenience does not = constitutional rights violations … \*\* And what a wonderful idea that is. Let’s please make life unbearable to prevent death, which of course is impossible to prevent. Ra! Sure the current security measures have yet to violate ANY of my civil rights. Guess what though, I am a white american male who works for an airline. I get to skim through security through an employee entrance if I so choose (though I still have to go through metal/bomb detectors et al.) Just because it isn’t happening to me, doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened. \*\* > [@](#): > > Actually several of the hijackers were here on the misconception of a student visa. I can assure you that in our INS system the “student visa program” was one of the biggest holes that needed to be plugged on the war against terrorism. \*\* Again, how does wasted time at an airport do anything about this? \*\* > [@](#): > > If today’s security at our airports prevents even one hi-jacking it is not a waist of time or money, at least not in my book. \*\* Get this through your skull, **THEY WON’T**. AFAIK all the events that have been prevented since 9/11 were either prevented by security measures already in place, or by, get this, **THE PASSENGERS ON THE PLANE**. \*\* > [@](#): > > I suggest you get of the cross because we need the wood… \*\* Pot. Kettle. **Black** ---
**Author:** ![tilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@tilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tilly)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-security-measures-unnecessary-and-undesirable/194396/45 "2003-08-14T22:02:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dinsdale \* > \*\*If we enjoyed limitless resources, it might not be so offensive to throw so many at passenger air travel. But we don’t. > > If we wished to, we could identify a potential threat in every plane, ship, train, car, truck, bus, bridge, building, dam, stadium, etc. ad infinitum. And we could always conceive of increased security measures that could stave off hypothetical threats. > > You are correct in observing that alternative means of transportation exist. For example, rental trucks have proven quite effective when parked in the proper place in the WTC or OK City. > > Hey, is that a pair of fingernail clippers there? > > _NOTE:_ I and others have acknowledged that you lived through a horrific event. But this is the second time you have chosen to reference martyrdom. Tho we are in GD, if you keep up that tone, this kettle might see fit to comment on the color of your pot. \*\* To answer your question above regarding my wanting to use the military to head up airport security, you would have a lot more resources if the security were run through the arms service budget to be handled by the military & pentagon. The FBI has jurisdiction over the airports and their working relationship is coming together very well since we went into Afghanistan… I think that there are a hell of a lot better ways to kill a lot of people than using planes and I said so above. The fingernail clippers being taken up are over the top and laughable. Lost 4 pair myself to security… What the fuck are you talking about my harping on “my” martyrdom? Would you kindly point out what in hell you are referring to because other than my answering your direct question regarding why I referenced 9/11 in an above post I did not talk about 9/11 from a personal experience rather as a major event and wake up call… Lets get something straight right away. I would never refer to myself as a myrter of any kind and certainly dont think that you have the right to insinuate I would consider myself one… If by chance you are referencing my little “get off the cross we need the wood”, it is southern humor and a saying that I throw out when someone seems to really think they are burdened with trouble when in the scheme of the big picture they are not… nothing more nothing less… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-security-measures-unnecessary-and-undesirable/194396.md?page=2)