# Current views on tipping in restaurants **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 4, 2021, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-views-on-tipping-in-restaurants/929607 "2021-01-04T01:26:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-views-on-tipping-in-restaurants/929607/81 "2021-01-05T17:56:38Z")
Actually they are. If their tips are short the employer is obligated to make up the difference. [https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped) > **[Tips | U.S. Department of Labor](https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/wages/wagestips)** > > A tipped employee engages in an occupation in which he or she customarily and regularly receives more than $30 per month in tips. An employer of a tipped employee is only required to pay $2.13 per hour in direct wages if that amount combined with the... ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-views-on-tipping-in-restaurants/929607/82 "2021-01-05T18:02:46Z")
I hate the scenario where you tip before the service is actually rendered - e.g. pizza delivery, grocery pickup). Yeah, in both cases we could tip afterward, but they make it a lot easier to tip beforehand. And it means we don’t have to have cash on hand. Right now I tolerate it because of COVID - these people are literally risking their lives so I don’t have to brave the dangerous grocery store. And we try to tip very generously. One thing I regret is when I do takeout from one specific chain restaurant, I always pay online so I can just dash in and pick my food up. That place has no way to include a tip; while it’s one of those places that has a jar by the register. I’m not using cash and usually have nothing to throw in there. I do agree that it’s evolved into a way for management to pay employees less. Folks may recall the InstaCart scam - where they were counting tips to make up part of the 10 bucks an hour the shoppers were promised, effectively STEALING tip money. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-views-on-tipping-in-restaurants/929607/83 "2021-01-05T18:24:24Z")
> [@tofor](#): > > If nobody tipped, the restaurant would be required to pay their waitstaff minimum wage. The tipped staff usually make _more_ than back-of-house due to tips. This is America, we DO tip. The average waitress does earn more than minimum wage, including tips. So when Mr. Pink shows up 5 minutes before close, runs the server around for an hour and doesn’t tip, that server effectively made $0 by staying an extra hour to attend to his meal. Tipping is part of a complex web of interlocking supply and demand curves, from wait staff earnings, to the back of house earnings, to the price on the menu and the profitability of the restaurant. What is not complex is what happens when a customer goes to a tipped service restaurant and doesn’t tip. He pays less than everyone else for the same service, and the only person in the mix who is made worse off is the serving staff. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-views-on-tipping-in-restaurants/929607/84 "2021-01-05T18:27:55Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Tipping is part of a complex web of interlocking supply and demand curves, from wait staff earnings, to the back of house earnings, to the price on the menu and the profitability of the restaurant. What is not complex is what happens when a customer goes to a tipped service restaurant and doesn’t tip. He pays less than everyone else for the same service, and the only person in the mix who is made worse off is the serving staff. And this is the main issue I have with tipping. There will always be “bad actors” who don’t tip. Why should the economic weight of that decision fall on the party that’s likely the least financially secure here (the server)? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-views-on-tipping-in-restaurants/929607/85 "2021-01-05T18:28:38Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > They’re not paid a proper, guaranteed wage. At least, today, the day perhaps you are visiting to use their services, they are not paid a proper guaranteed wage. The law states that if no tips are received the employer is required to make up the difference to the minimum wage. Is that not right? If no-one tipped on a given day the employer would have to pay the full minimum wage amount…correct? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-views-on-tipping-in-restaurants/929607/86 "2021-01-05T18:31:08Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Tipping is part of a complex web of interlocking supply and demand curves, from wait staff earnings, to the back of house earnings, to the price on the menu and the profitability of the restaurant. It is only as complex as you choose to make it. A fair proportion of the world and many industries within the USA manage to do away with such complexity and arrive at a way of paying people a set amount to deliver goods or services. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-views-on-tipping-in-restaurants/929607/87 "2021-01-05T18:33:49Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > If no-one tipped on a given day the employer would have to pay the full minimum wage amount…correct? I know a couple of people who do so well with tips (and who do not report their tips) that they happily get zero pay from their boss. One guy in particular bartends two nights a week, does occasional weddings/parties and is kicking butt. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-views-on-tipping-in-restaurants/929607/88 "2021-01-05T18:37:13Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > I know a couple of people who do so well with tips (and who do not report their tips) that they happily get zero pay from their boss. One guy in particular bartends two nights a week, does occasional weddings/parties and is kicking butt. How can he legally get zero wages from his employer? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-views-on-tipping-in-restaurants/929607/89 "2021-01-05T18:39:27Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > How can he legally get zero wages from his employer?- Legally? He cannot. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-views-on-tipping-in-restaurants/929607/90 "2021-01-05T18:42:28Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Legally? He cannot. Then I don’t know what relevance it has to the argument. If no-one tipped that bartender he still makes at least minimum wage. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-views-on-tipping-in-restaurants/929607/91 "2021-01-05T18:48:00Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > If no-one tipped that bartender he still makes at least minimum wage. No, if nobody tipped him he’d go home empty handed. He has an agreement with the owner of the bar. He keeps all his tips and doesn’t get paid an hourly wage. He is “not on the books” at all. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-views-on-tipping-in-restaurants/929607/92 "2021-01-05T18:51:02Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > No, if nobody tipped him he’d go home empty handed. He has an agreement with the owner of the bar. He keeps all his tips and doesn’t get paid an hourly wage. He is “not on the books” at all. So he is not actually an employee at all, and of no relevance to any discussion about servers being paid less than minimum wage. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-views-on-tipping-in-restaurants/929607/93 "2021-01-05T18:54:43Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > So he is not actually an employee at all, Yeah, I think that the IRS would still consider him an employee. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-views-on-tipping-in-restaurants/929607/94 "2021-01-05T18:54:51Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > So he is not actually an employee at all, and of no relevance to any discussion about servers being paid less than minimum wage. I think he is a relevant part of a discussion on “current views on tipping in restaurants” though. For some people who serve us our food and drinks, tips are their only compensation. I have no idea how common this is, but Kayaker’s friend can’t be the only one. (on the other hand, someone working illegally has no right to complain if tipping culture changes and they’re no longer allowed to rake in tax-free income) ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-views-on-tipping-in-restaurants/929607/95 "2021-01-05T18:57:31Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Yeah, I think that the IRS would still consider him an employee. If the IRS knew what he was doing he and his employer would be in big trouble. Of course, this is why the IRS asks if you had any illegal income. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-views-on-tipping-in-restaurants/929607/96 "2021-01-05T18:59:58Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I think he is a relevant part of a discussion on “current views on tipping in restaurants” though. For some people who serve us our food and drinks, tips are their only compensation. I have no idea how common this is, but Kayaker’s friend can’t be the only one. (on the other hand, someone working illegally has no right to complain if tipping culture changes and they’re no longer allowed to rake in tax-free income) Would we not all agree though that encouraging such illegal arrangements is not the way to go? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-views-on-tipping-in-restaurants/929607/97 "2021-01-05T19:03:48Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Yeah, I think that the IRS would still consider him an employee. Both he and the bar owner are clearly trying to circumvent the minimum wage regulations and evade tax. Not a shining example of how the world of work should be. And not something to be held up as an example. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-views-on-tipping-in-restaurants/929607/98 "2021-01-05T19:09:00Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > > > So he is not actually an employee at all, and of no relevance to any discussion about servers being paid less than minimum wage. > > I think he is a relevant part of a discussion on “current views on tipping in restaurants” though. For some people who serve us our food and drinks, tips are their only compensation. I have no idea how common this is, but Kayaker’s friend can’t be the only one. (on the other hand, someone working illegally has no right to complain if tipping culture changes and they’re no longer allowed to rake in tax-free income) Right. I have been reading all these but their employer would have to make up the tips and I wonder how many service employees these folks know. Because a lot of employers go through some hoops to make sure they don’t have to pay amounts based on too little tips. ---
**Author:** ![Delayed\_Reflex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/delayed_reflex/32/3172_2.png) [@Delayed\_Reflex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delayed_Reflex)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-views-on-tipping-in-restaurants/929607/99 "2021-01-05T19:09:20Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > > [@Riemann](#): > > > > Are you suggesting that in normal non-COVID times it’s standard practice to tip for takeout food? Surely a tip is not expected for a takeout pizza? > > > > And part of the problem is that “norms” are being undermined not by the consumer, but by businesses trying to expand tipping. Almost every place I go for coffee now tries to normalize tipping the barista when you buy a takeout coffee at the counter. > > I think it generally should be standard to tip for takeout, based on [information like this](https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/639170/uncover-tons-deals-amazons-warehouse-page?utm_content=infinitescroll1): > > > [@](#): > > > > Steve Dublanica, a former waiter in New York City and [author](http://www.waiterrant.net/) of _Keep the Change_ , a look at our culture’s tipping habits, argues that stiffing takeout servers is the wrong move. “To get $100 worth of food, it takes more time to pack up an order like that than it does to plate it and serve it,” he says. “You need to put sauces in separate containers, arrange it so things stay warm. There’s labor involved.” > > He disagrees with the Emily Post Institute in this regard. When there’s disagreement between the gentry and the worker, I tend to trust the worker’s expertise :). I don’t doubt it takes more labour to pack up a takeout order than to put it onto a plate. But does it take more labour to pack up a takeout order than it does to converse with a customer, guide them through menu options and specials, take the customer’s order, serve their order, check on their satisfaction with the meal, top up their drinks, juggling multiple tables, etc. which is the service that you’re typically tipping 20% for? How much did you tip for takeout pre-pandemic? For what it’s worth, I’m tipping generously for takeout right now, but mainly because I have been frequenting primarily mom-and-pop establishments where the tips are going to the operator/owner and I want to support them through the pandemic. If there wasn’t a pandemic, there’s no way I’d be tipping 20% for takeout. Being a Canadian, I don’t like how the standards of tipping culture in the US creeps up here. Servers get paid the minimum wage of 15/hr here, and yet people still act like we should be tipping 20% of the bill. Yet, most back-of-house staff get paid only a or two more over minimum wage. At many restaurants, servers can make twice as much as the kitchen staff, which I think is pretty unfair. I would love to see a no-tip restaurant model take off in North America, but even in Canada we seem too ingrained in the tipping culture for it to work. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-views-on-tipping-in-restaurants/929607/100 "2021-01-05T19:19:33Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Right. I have been reading all these but their employer would have to make up the tips and I wonder how many service employees these folks know. Because a lot of employers go through some hoops to make sure they don’t have to pay amounts based on too little tips. So the real problem here is illegal employment practices, not tipping or lack thereof. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-views-on-tipping-in-restaurants/929607.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-views-on-tipping-in-restaurants/929607.md?page=6)