# Current views on tipping in restaurants **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 4, 2021, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-views-on-tipping-in-restaurants/929607 "2021-01-04T01:26:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-views-on-tipping-in-restaurants/929607/121 "2021-01-06T16:58:00Z")
In what other context do you the consumer pay a worker directly when you are also paying the business that employs the worker? I agree that not tipping in our current culture is bad, because it hurts the worker. But that’s a terrible system. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-views-on-tipping-in-restaurants/929607/122 "2021-01-06T17:03:00Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > But they know how they could clear the air. They choose not to. I agree that clarity is to be preferred. The restaurant could easily be very clear about the true cost of providing and serving you the food,they just choose not to. ---
**Author:** ![tofor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tofor/32/13727_2.png) [@tofor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tofor)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-views-on-tipping-in-restaurants/929607/123 "2021-01-06T17:05:00Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Strangely, in all the years I’ve offered this suggestion, no non-tippers have responded to it. Either it’s fatally flawed, or it reveals the problem with non-tippers. It’s fatally flawed in that it’s a weird suggestion. Somebody who doesn’t tip might be a jerk, but somebody who goes out of their way to tell a server that fact ahead of time is both a jerk _and_ weird. Like, “what other unpredictable thing might this guy do?” weird. Like a guy who cleans his eyeglasses with his tounge sort of weird. Or builds a tower out of the dirty dishes on the table before he’s done eating sort of weird. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-views-on-tipping-in-restaurants/929607/124 "2021-01-06T17:06:41Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > It’s not about “getting mad about it.” It’s about telling the person up-front what you’ll pay, and letting them decide what they’ll give you in response. Completely the wrong way round. Every business I interact with lays out the cost of their goods or services _first_. I then decide if I will purchase. How do you do things? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-views-on-tipping-in-restaurants/929607/125 "2021-01-06T17:11:12Z")
The cost of service in a restaurant is the listed price + 15-20% tip, plus sales tax where applicable. It may not be written on the menu, but that’s the cost. Everyone knows this, it’s not a hidden cost, it’s not a surprise. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-views-on-tipping-in-restaurants/929607/126 "2021-01-06T17:15:10Z")
No tippers want the service of an experienced and enthusiastic wait staff, but want to pay them like Walmart trainees. Seriously “they’re guaranteed minimum wage” is ridiculousness if you want competent service. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-views-on-tipping-in-restaurants/929607/127 "2021-01-06T17:17:15Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > No tippers want the service of an experienced and enthusiastic wait staff, but want to pay them like Walmart trainees Maybe, but I never advocated not tipping for wait service. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-views-on-tipping-in-restaurants/929607/128 "2021-01-06T17:18:23Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > No tippers want the service of an experienced and enthusiastic wait staff, but want to pay them like Walmart trainees. Seriously “they’re guaranteed minimum wage” is ridiculousness if you want competent service I am not a no tipper, but it seems to me like what they want is for wait staff to be paid properly by their employer, and their employer to charge customers accordingly, rather than rely on a byzantine system designed to give the customer a sense of power over the wait staff ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-views-on-tipping-in-restaurants/929607/129 "2021-01-06T17:18:58Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > The cost of service in a restaurant is the listed price + 15-20% tip, plus sales tax where applicable. It may not be written on the menu, but that’s the cost. Everyone knows this, it’s not a hidden cost, it’s not a surprise. The sales tax isn’t optional, nor is it variable,that’s why it isn’t a surprise. The tip is _optional_, and it is _variable_. As your own post shows. Should it be 15% or 20%? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-views-on-tipping-in-restaurants/929607/130 "2021-01-06T17:25:24Z")
Apologies for marking you on my reply, I did not intend to, and that post wasn’t intended to rebut anything you posted. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-views-on-tipping-in-restaurants/929607/131 "2021-01-06T17:26:30Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I am not a no tipper, but it seems to me like what they want is for wait staff to be paid properly by their employer, and their employer to charge customers accordingly, rather than rely on a byzantine system designed to give the customer a sense of power over the wait staff I understand wanting the system to be different. But pretending you’re doing somebody a favor by not paying them for their work is… misguided, in the kindest terms I can think of. If it’s a cause you believe in, lobby for living wages for wait staff. Start a letter-writing campaign. Boycott restaurants that use the system you abhor. Whatever. In the meantime, though, if you eat out, _pay your server_. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-views-on-tipping-in-restaurants/929607/132 "2021-01-06T17:28:24Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > but it seems to me like what they want is for wait staff to be paid properly by their employer, This is where I’m compelled to breakout a movie quote, from The Right Stuff > Shepard, me and my friends think your Jose Jimenez imitation is A-O-K. But what you’re doing with it is B-A-D. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-views-on-tipping-in-restaurants/929607/133 "2021-01-06T17:29:08Z")
> [@Wheelz](#): > > I understand wanting the system to be different. But pretending you’re doing somebody a favor by not paying them for their work is… misguided, in the kindest terms I can think of. > > If it’s a cause you believe in, lobby for living wages for wait staff. Start a letter-writing campaign. Boycott restaurants that use the system you abhor. Whatever. > > In the meantime, though, if you eat out, _pay your server_ . I agree, like I said, I am not a no tipper. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-views-on-tipping-in-restaurants/929607/134 "2021-01-06T17:29:21Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > The tip is _optional_ , and it is _variable_ . Some tipping is truly optional. I don’t feel obligated to do it, but I sometimes will, because I can afford it, or to show appreciation for a job well done, or as a gesture of kindness. Other tipping is obligatory—maybe not legally, but if I don’t do it I’m violating a social norm and failing to live up to expectations. ---
**Author:** ![TimothyNewsome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7ba0ec/32.png) [@TimothyNewsome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimothyNewsome)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-views-on-tipping-in-restaurants/929607/135 "2021-01-06T17:31:41Z")
I knew a man who was slightly intellectually challenged (which wasn’t necc. apparent in a casual conversation with him or in his physical apperance) who frequented an inexpensive diner a few times a month where he never tipped the various servers there. (despite having the money to and despite tipping in other situations where he was with friends and so was socially pressured to) He told me that one day he asked for a to-go box for his leftovers and the waitress openly told him “No” and told him (out of earshot of other customers?) that he was a cheap piece of shit, that all the other servers hated him and they had been spitting in his food for months. I assume that because he was “slow” that she was comfortable calling him out like that, that her manager wouldn’t believe him if he told what she said to him and so was willing to risk losing her job over that he would simply leave with his tail between his legs and not come back, which is exactly what he ended up doing. (I have no idea if the bit about spitting in his food was actually true, hopefully she was just trying to impress upon him how he was not welcome there.) In my opinion, he wasn’t really a bad person, but he fully knew and understood the tipping system, and I guess because this place wasn’t fancy he felt he could get away with stiffing the servers there even though he had money and tipped at other places when it was socially expected. (of course those servers would not have know this, if so I assume that would have really set them off, knowing it was only them he was treating like that) ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-views-on-tipping-in-restaurants/929607/136 "2021-01-06T17:33:10Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Other tipping is obligatory—maybe not legally, but if I don’t do it I’m violating a social norm and failing to live up to expectations. Then there are zero good reasons for not including it as part of the costs. If it is truly obligatory and necessary, why leave it open to negotiation and personal whim? what is the benefit to either the server or the customer? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-views-on-tipping-in-restaurants/929607/137 "2021-01-06T17:48:44Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > If it is truly obligatory and necessary, why leave it open to negotiation and personal whim? what is the benefit to either the server or the customer? 1. it saves the employer money 2. it gives customers who enjoy loading every ounce of power over the working class an excuse to do so 3. inertia Those are the only “benefits” of tip culture I can think of ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-views-on-tipping-in-restaurants/929607/138 "2021-01-06T19:14:01Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > The sales tax isn’t optional, nor is it variable,that’s why it isn’t a surprise. It’s typically not listed on the menu. If you were unaware of the amount of tax at that location it would be a surprise. To people from overseas it often is. But we deal with it and accept it. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > The tip is _optional_ , and it is _variable_ . As your own post shows. Should it be 15% or 20%? The final percentage of the tip is variable, but in our society it is not optional. Legally it is not part of the price of a meal, but by custom and tradition it is. You can dance around this point all you want, but it is a fact of life in our society. IMO life would be better if we eliminated tipping and provided a living wage to servers but we don’t do that right now. Work to change that if you want, but don’t punish those who make their living under that rule in the process. Bottom line, if you were out at a restaurant today, would you leave a tip? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-views-on-tipping-in-restaurants/929607/139 "2021-01-06T19:21:52Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Bottom line, if you were out at a restaurant today, would you leave a tip? Depends what service I get. I’m in the UK so things aren’t quite the same. You can’t avoid the minimum wage so whether I do or don’t no-one is losing out. I try to avoid places with unclear practices and high expectation of tipping. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-views-on-tipping-in-restaurants/929607/140 "2021-01-06T19:23:26Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > If it is truly obligatory and necessary, why leave it open to negotiation and personal whim? what is the benefit to either the server or the customer? The system isn’t beneficial to anyone except the business owner and the loophole-seeker. The business owner gets to treat wait staff as semi-independent contractors, paying them only a fraction of what their service is worth, because the customer is assumed to pay the rest of that cost. The loophole seeker, knowing about this arrangement, can masquerade as someone who upholds the unwritten rules of society but then flouts them, obtaining service that wasn’t paid for. Yeah, it’d be weird to announce ahead of time that one is going to be a cheapskate. That’s because cheaters don’t normally warn their victims. It gives away the game. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-views-on-tipping-in-restaurants/929607.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/current-views-on-tipping-in-restaurants/929607.md?page=8)