# Cutting Off A Girl's Hair: Is This Ever OK? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 20, 2010, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cutting-off-a-girls-hair-is-this-ever-ok/543859 "2010-06-20T08:51:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cutting-off-a-girls-hair-is-this-ever-ok/543859/81 "2010-06-20T23:52:08Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > First, a disclaimer: I am a guy. > > While I agree Susan shouldn’t have done it, _it is just hair_. Jen choosing to taking legal action would be far worse than the action that provoked that response. Yes, it’s just hair. It doesn’t hurt physically to have it cut. It will grow back (almost certainly). That said - _it is part of someone’s body_. It doesn’t belong to anyone but the person whose skull it sprouts from. It is regarded as an assault under many legal systems. There is a _lot_ of cultural and social baggage involved in a woman’s hair - length, color, style, etc. This is not as serious as, say, deliberately cutting someone’s arm or hand to draw blood, or biting someone, but it an act of aggression and a crossing of boundaries. Drunk or sober, if someone lopped off 4 inches of my braid (which is currently butt-length) I’d probably punch them in the face. Even though I’m soon going to cut off half of it. I have _plans_ for the hair I’m about to cut (I’m a regular Locks of Love donor). And it someone lopped off some of my hair without person I’d cut that person out of my life. How would I ever be sure they wouldn’t do it again? If they’re crossing that boundary what other ones will they cross in regards to my bodily integrity? No, it is NEVER OK to cut off someone’s hair without permission barring some bizarro life-threatening emergency. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cutting-off-a-girls-hair-is-this-ever-ok/543859/82 "2010-06-21T00:59:38Z")
I think the bar needs to consider a permanent banning. This woman committed assault and battery while under the influence of alcohol, in their bar. If she had stabbed Jen or sliced her skin, a good attorney would absolutely look to implicate the bar for serving Susan to the extent that they did, and also for providing the weapon of the crime. She’s proven her instability and her inability to comport herself appropriately when consuming alcohol, for their own sake and to limit their liability, the bar needs to 86 her, period. And Jen should not ever have any contact with this malicious, odious person again. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cutting-off-a-girls-hair-is-this-ever-ok/543859/83 "2010-06-21T01:16:33Z")
> [@Audrey\_Levins](#): > > Well I am sooo pleased that the vast majority of Dopers appear to share my outrage over this incident; I forwarded this thread to Jen and she found it very validating. > > I must also mention that this is one of those “last straw” incidents as far as Susan goes; she’s been acting hostile and erratic for awhile now…we’ve all been friends for years but I, at least, have been thinking for awhile of distancing myself from her, and this was kind of “it” for me. It wasn’t my hair, but it happened in front of me, to my best friend, and I think it’s time for me to end the friendship. (Such as it is/was.) > > It’s one thing to joke about somebody being psycho, but it’s another when they cross a physical line like this, and prove it. I don’t need this kind of drama; this is not the act of a friend. Or a sane person. I hope she gets help with her issues but I don’t deserve to put up with them. Neither does Jen. Ah. As a final straw incident, it’s a pretty definitive one - people just don’t _do_ stuff like that. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cutting-off-a-girls-hair-is-this-ever-ok/543859/84 "2010-06-21T01:31:34Z")
I gotta ask how exactly this happened? What did Jen do when Susan got up, asked for scissors, and started hacking away at Jen’s hair? Did Jen not notice? Did she protest? Was she surprised when Susan waved the hair in front of her? This must have taken some time – maybe minutes. If they were both THAT drunk, perhaps the problem is the bartender, who should have cut them off (their drinks, not their tresses 🙂 ) way earlier. ---
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cutting-off-a-girls-hair-is-this-ever-ok/543859/85 "2010-06-21T01:41:29Z")
To the OP: Poor Jen ☹ Of course it’s never okay, I can’t believe that would even be a question. I personally wouldn’t get police involved, but I can understand being really upset. hijack: > [@Maiira](#): > > I watch a lot of What Not to Wear, and I’m usually unsympathetic to the women who don’t want their hair cut short. The stylist, after all, is a professional, and knows how to make hair look good. And besides, it grows back if you dislike it. I think if you’re going to be on one of those makeover shows you really should be open to doing whatever (within reason!) the stylist wants to do. In “real world” settings, IME, a good stylist would never cut someone’s hair really short if their hair is really long. What I mean is, they want to do it in stages, they at least make the suggestion that they take off five inches this time, five inches next time, etc. So many women have a bad hair day and say “CHOP IT ALL OFF!” only to regret it the next day. I can understand why a stylist would want to cut waist length hair, though. I have _never_ seen anyone with hair that long where it looked good. Not ever. It always looks ratty and kind of trashy. People say they get compliments on it, but I always figured people are just surprised to see hair that long and comment on it. ---
**Author:** ![missred](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/missred/32/14096_2.png) [@missred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missred)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cutting-off-a-girls-hair-is-this-ever-ok/543859/86 "2010-06-21T02:05:09Z")
A former bartender joining the chorus singing “ban her”. Not only is she someone untrustworthy to allow around your other patrons, she’s a legal liability to the business. Either way, she’s not worth the trouble. ---
**Author:** ![MikeG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikeg/32/4329_2.png) [@MikeG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeG)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cutting-off-a-girls-hair-is-this-ever-ok/543859/87 "2010-06-21T03:06:13Z")
In my bar, she’d be banned for life. That’s a shunning offense in my book. Tell her to go sell her crazy somewhere else. As for the people saying “it’s just hair”, there’s a lot of cultural significance to hair and it is a big component of the image you project to the world. Cutting womens’ hair has been used as a form of revenge for a long time (see collaborators in Nazi held France, Russia, etc.) There is a stigma attached to having your hair disfigured. ---
**Author:** ![Mississippienne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d2c977/32.png) [@Mississippienne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mississippienne)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cutting-off-a-girls-hair-is-this-ever-ok/543859/88 "2010-06-21T03:10:41Z")
Anyone who came at my hair with scissors would get smacked in the face. I have hair issues – near-lifelong trichotillomania – and the fact that my hair is as long, healthy, and thick as it is is a great triumph to me. I get upset on behalf of people who’s hair has been forcibly shorn, and the thought of having my own hacked off is horrifying. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cutting-off-a-girls-hair-is-this-ever-ok/543859/89 "2010-06-21T03:16:23Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > First, a disclaimer: I am a guy. > > While I agree Susan shouldn’t have done it, _it is just hair_. Jen choosing to taking legal action would be far worse than the action that provoked that response. I’m a woman. I agree that Susan was way out of line and that was a shitty thing to do. She does have a lot of apologies to make if she wants to patch up that friendship. I also agree that it is just hair. I don’t think it’s healthy to have that much of your identity wrapped up in your hair. While learning that your friend is a bitch may be traumatic, a bad haircut in and of itself should not be causing serious emotional distress for an adult. I find it a bit disappointing that women are still carrying about the old “my hair is my crowning glory thing.” By all means love your hair and wear it proudly, but recognize that it’s not actually an integral part of who you are. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cutting-off-a-girls-hair-is-this-ever-ok/543859/90 "2010-06-21T04:16:41Z")
For everyone who’s saying 'It’s just hair." would it have been better if Susan had come up and cut up the back of Jenn’s blouse with scissors? Hacked off part of her dress? Obviously neither of those things are even attached to her body, but I can tell you if I was having a quiet drink in a bar and suddenly I felt a breeze across my back, I would be plenty pissed. You just don’t get in another person’s space with scissors and start hacking away - I don’t care if it’s just hair or a top. It’s nuttsy coo-coo and normal people don’t do that to each other. ---
**Author:** ![lee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lee/32/7455_2.png) [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cutting-off-a-girls-hair-is-this-ever-ok/543859/91 "2010-06-21T04:17:56Z")
I am a woman and this would be extremely traumatic to me. I have been growing my hair for over half my life. It makes me sick to my stomach to really imagine this kind of violation. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cutting-off-a-girls-hair-is-this-ever-ok/543859/92 "2010-06-21T04:19:18Z")
> [@alice\_in\_wonderland](#): > > For everyone who’s saying 'It’s just hair." would it have been better if Susan had come up and cut up the back of Jenn’s blouse with scissors? Hacked off part of her dress? > > Obviously neither of those things are even attached to her body, but I can tell you if I was having a quiet drink in a bar and suddenly I felt a breeze across my back, I would be plenty pissed. > > You just don’t get in another person’s space with scissors and start hacking away - I don’t care if it’s just hair or a top. It’s nuttsy coo-coo and normal people don’t do that to each other. Yeah. It’s also not about the value of the missing thing. If a friend of mine decided to “just” steal a dollar from me, the point wouldn’t be that, “Oh, it’s just a dollar.” It’s the fact that they saw fit to take it that makes them a bad person/friend. ---
**Author:** ![rhubarbarin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb9ed0/32.png) [@rhubarbarin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhubarbarin)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cutting-off-a-girls-hair-is-this-ever-ok/543859/93 "2010-06-21T04:45:08Z")
Not okay, ever. I have low tolerance for drunken ‘mistakes’ and the friendship would be over. And while I would probably be far too cheap and lazy to go through with it, I’d be so mad I’d be talking about pressing charges. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cutting-off-a-girls-hair-is-this-ever-ok/543859/94 "2010-06-21T05:03:25Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > I also agree that it is just hair. I don’t think it’s healthy to have that much of your identity wrapped up in your hair. > > While learning that your friend is a bitch may be traumatic, a bad haircut in and of itself should not be causing serious emotional distress for an adult. I find it a bit disappointing that women are still carrying about the old “my hair is my crowning glory thing.” By all means love your hair and wear it proudly, but recognize that it’s not actually an integral part of who you are. It is very instructive to observe how the people who seek to minimize the significance of this issue are attempting to characterize the assault–which is what it is–as “a bad haircut” or some kind of styling faux pas. It is, in fact, an attack upon a part of a person’s body to which said person has not invited or consented to. Setting aside the symbolism of cutting hair as a means of causing humiliation or gaining power, it is still clearly intended to vandalize one’s person in a way that is public and not readily reversible. It may not be carving a swastika into someone’s forehead, but it is an assault that is on the same spectrum of disfigurement and public marking. It is “a bad haircut” in the way that a carjacking is to your obnoxious brother-in-law with two points left on his license demanding to borrow your new Lexus to go down to the convenience store for a pack of smokes. And regardless of whether it is healthy or not to have “that much of your identity wrapped up in your hair,” it is _your_ hair. We all have some material items in our life that are of significant sentimental value and that we would feel violated if they were stolen or vandalized, and it isn’t any shame if one of those things is, in fact, a part of your body (even if it is extruded dead tissue). To violate that in a casual or impulsive act without recognizing the severity of the violation and returning with contrition is the hallmark of someone who doesn’t understand boundaries or express appropriate empathy. Knowing that this is the latest in an escalating series of “hostile and erratic” actions tends very strongly toward this woman having either severe emotional problems or a core personality disorder. Either way, she is definitely someone to stay away from when she is drinking. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cutting-off-a-girls-hair-is-this-ever-ok/543859/95 "2010-06-21T05:28:48Z")
> [@Audrey\_Levins](#): > > I would like opinions on this. Because I don’t think I know quite what the hell to think. It’s one of those things that seems like a bright idea at the time, when you are drunk or overly spontaneous or just not really thinking, or just are generally unaware that something is much more important to another person than to you or than you realized. It seems like the friend realized after the fact that it wasn’t a good idea, and was ready to make monetary restitution but just wasn’t capable of making emotional restitution. Sometimes, one’s first instinct is to feel like reminding someone of a horrible thing, even to apologize or ask for forgiveness, may be more painful than simply trying to forget it happened. I don’t think the friend was truly malevolent. Probably the best thing to do here is have a third party intervene. Find out what the girl needs (to pay for a new haircut? a sincere apology? getting to cut the other girl’s hair? an explanation?) and relay that to her through the third party, so it’s less awkward, and then the friend can perform the needed action and they can both move on… Personally, when I’m wronged by someone, it of course annoys me, but it doesn’t affect me on a personal level unless there was actual intent (rather than simple ignorance or negligence) to harm. And I make sure to let the other person know what it is I didn’t like, and what my preferences are with regard to their future behavior, and in some cases what will be the consequence of a repeat offense. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cutting-off-a-girls-hair-is-this-ever-ok/543859/96 "2010-06-21T06:36:02Z")
Those who keep saying, “well, it’s just hair!” are missing one big point. It wasn’t Susan’s hair – it was JEN’S hair. Susan had no right to do so, and basically trashed Jen’s personal posession. It would be like keying someone’s car, or vandalizing her personal property. It’s the principle of the thing. And I’m one of those who say, it’s not “just hair”. I’m very touchy about my hair, and if someone hacked four inches off of my hair, I’d cry. For hours, and probably days. My hair is stick straight and baby fine, and it would look just awful. I’d probably have to wear a wig not to look like a complete hick. (Seriously, it would just be over my ears, and I can’t imagine how bad it would be!) Saying, “well, it will grow back,” completely misses the point of how malicious Susan was being. It’s kind of like deliberately destroying someone’s looks (or hair) out of jealousy. Susan’s got some serious issues. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cutting-off-a-girls-hair-is-this-ever-ok/543859/97 "2010-06-21T06:51:22Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I gotta ask how exactly this happened? What did Jen do when Susan got up, asked for scissors, and started hacking away at Jen’s hair? Did Jen not notice? Did she protest? Was she surprised when Susan waved the hair in front of her? This must have taken some time – maybe minutes. > > If they were both THAT drunk, perhaps the problem is the bartender, who should have cut them off (their drinks, not their tresses 🙂 ) way earlier. From what I gather upthread, Jen was talking to someone else when Susan asked for the scissors and started cutting. And since Jen’s hair WAS that long, Susan was able to cut the braid without tugging on it. Maybe Susan needs to go get her head shaved to show her sincere remorse. And I’ll repeat that Susan needs to be banned from the bar, for at least a month or so. Apparently Jen is capable of acting in a civilized manner even when she’s a little drunk, but Susan will give in to her “bright ideas” when she’s had a few. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cutting-off-a-girls-hair-is-this-ever-ok/543859/98 "2010-06-21T07:19:40Z")
I had a guy shave off all of my hair once. I saw a sign a a fancy salon in New York looking for hair models- specializing in short hair for women. I had just-above-the-shoulders hair at the time, and figured a free haircut would be nice. I was pretty surprised when I sat down and he immediately shaved a large strip of it off. With that much hair gone there was no way to reverse things. I ended up bald. I felt like a huge dork and did a lot of double-takes in the mirror. I didn’t like it much, maybe even hated it, but it certainly didn’t get anywhere near being a blow to my personal identity. I did the best with what I had, bought some bold earrings, and rocked the cancer patient look for all it was worth- it was an interesting experience. Within a few months it grew back out and I had a funny story to tell. Of course Susan should have never done what she did. She was absolutely wrong. But Jen can control how much she lets the act itself bother her. ---
**Author:** ![Septima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Septima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Septima)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cutting-off-a-girls-hair-is-this-ever-ok/543859/99 "2010-06-21T07:31:11Z")
No, never OK. In fact, where I live, it would be crime (_legemsfornærmelse_ - insult to the body of another), carrying a punishment of fines and up to six months in jail. Which I think is entirely appropriate. I think Jen should look into whether her local laws allow her to bring some sort of assault charge against Susan. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cutting-off-a-girls-hair-is-this-ever-ok/543859/100 "2010-06-21T08:03:32Z")
Well, a lot of this is in the spirit of drunkenness. Susan probably thought she was being playful while making a dig against someone who made her jealous. Jen has fabulous hair, and knows it Comments on her split ends, inciting jealousy in Susan Susan cuts it and says Ha, now let’s hear you bitch about your split ends! Yeah, Susan crossed a line. And if this was a last straw kind of thing and she’s been doing other stuff like that, she should probably be written off as a friend. Not a friendly thing to do. Jen should find the most expensive stylist in town, make the appointment, and let Susan pay for that. Depending on where you live, this could be $300 or so. I don’t know if I’m completely outraged, though. It sort of sounds like they were drunk, and Jen was flaunting her locks. In other words, because of the booze they both have some issues here. I do think it’s forgivable, though. It’s just hair, it will grow back. But if Jen doesn’t want to forgive her, I could sure understand that, too. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cutting-off-a-girls-hair-is-this-ever-ok/543859.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cutting-off-a-girls-hair-is-this-ever-ok/543859.md?page=6)