# Cutting off aid to Egypt is the law **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 6, 2013, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cutting-off-aid-to-egypt-is-the-law/662825 "2013-07-06T23:52:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cutting-off-aid-to-egypt-is-the-law/662825/81 "2013-07-12T14:17:00Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > In this context ‘anyone who counts’ is the president, a significant bloc of senators and/or congressmen, or a significant bloc of voters. So far none of these is taking your position. If anything they’re being astoundingly rational about the subject. I’m 100% sure that zero voters are going to base their decision at the ballot box next year on this issue. Your faith in democracy “sorting it all out” is a bit naive. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cutting-off-aid-to-egypt-is-the-law/662825/82 "2013-07-12T14:21:13Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > I’m 100% sure that zero voters are going to base their decision at the ballot box next year on this issue. Your faith in democracy “sorting it all out” is a bit naive. How is that not “democracy sorting this out”? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cutting-off-aid-to-egypt-is-the-law/662825/83 "2013-07-12T14:24:47Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > I’m 100% sure that zero voters are going to base their decision at the ballot box next year on this issue. Your faith in democracy “sorting it all out” is a bit naive. And I’m sure that seeing as how there is no great uproar(despite all your heroic efforts), it’s pretty much already _been_ sorted out. Best of luck with your _next_ “outrage”, though. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cutting-off-aid-to-egypt-is-the-law/662825/84 "2013-07-12T14:42:06Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > How is that not “democracy sorting this out”? If 100% of voters were for ending aid to Egypt, and zero percent acted on this conviction, democracy was not a factor in determining whether or not Egypt received aid. Which is why a vast majority of policy decisions are decided by special interests and not the will of the majority of voters. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > And I’m sure that seeing as how there is no great uproar(despite all your heroic efforts), it’s pretty much already _been_ sorted out. > Best of luck with your _next_ “outrage”, though. Yes I forgot the necessity of “uproar” in deciding political questions in a democratic society. For example consider the fact that a vast majority of citizens want to exit Afganistan, and we continue to occupy that country. The infallible god Democracy has sorted this out for us. Everyone knows the recipe for affecting change democratically is Majority+a dash of Uproar. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cutting-off-aid-to-egypt-is-the-law/662825/85 "2013-07-12T14:51:34Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > If 100% of voters were for ending aid to Egypt, and zero percent acted on this conviction, democracy was not a factor in determining whether or not Egypt received aid. Which is why a vast majority of policy decisions are decided by special interests and not the will of the majority of voters. > > Yes I forgot the necessity of “uproar” in deciding political questions in a democratic society. For example consider the fact that a vast majority of citizens want to exit Afganistan, and we continue to occupy that country. The infallible god Democracy has sorted this out for us. Everyone knows the recipe for affecting change democratically is Majority+a dash of Uproar. What would you have us do, then? Hold elections every two weeks? All you have offered so far _is_ uproar and outrage-now what? ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cutting-off-aid-to-egypt-is-the-law/662825/86 "2013-07-12T15:00:40Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What would you have us do, then? Hold elections every two weeks? All you have offered so far _is_ uproar and outrage-now what? Stop acting as if democracy is an effective tool for changing the most mundane of policies. That is what i responded to, after all. Just because the public doesn’t “vote the bums out” over not ending aid to Egypt, doesn’t mean the public doesn’t want to end aid. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cutting-off-aid-to-egypt-is-the-law/662825/87 "2013-07-12T15:01:56Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Stop acting as if democracy is an effective tool for changing the most mundane of policies. That is what i responded to, after all. Just because the public doesn’t “vote the bums out” over not ending aid to Egypt, doesn’t mean the public doesn’t want to end aid. Once again: What would you have us do instead? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cutting-off-aid-to-egypt-is-the-law/662825/88 "2013-07-12T15:03:35Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Stop acting as if democracy is an effective tool for changing the most mundane of policies. That is what i responded to, after all. Just because the public doesn’t “vote the bums out” over not ending aid to Egypt, doesn’t mean the public doesn’t want to end aid. The only way to determine “what the public wants or doesn’t want” is through elections. If they poll 100% “for” something, but don’t vote “for” it, then they like to tell pollster that they want it, but their actions don’t validate that position. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cutting-off-aid-to-egypt-is-the-law/662825/89 "2013-07-12T15:07:33Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The only way to determine “what the public wants or doesn’t want” is through elections. No the only way to determine what the public wants is to let them freely act. If they want to give aid to Egypt, give them that option. > [@](#): > > If they poll 100% “for” something, but don’t vote “for” it, then they like to tell pollster that they want it, but their actions don’t validate that position. Their actions merely show they have higher priorities. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cutting-off-aid-to-egypt-is-the-law/662825/90 "2013-07-12T15:10:36Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Once again: What would you have us do instead? Let the issue of whether or not Egypt receives aid be decided by each individual. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cutting-off-aid-to-egypt-is-the-law/662825/91 "2013-07-12T15:10:42Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > No the only way to determine what the public wants is to let them freely act. If they want to give aid to Egypt, give them that option. In what way? How exactly would this work? I swear this is like pulling teeth from a chicken. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cutting-off-aid-to-egypt-is-the-law/662825/92 "2013-07-12T15:25:24Z")
I think he means he wants the government out of the foreign aid business because private charity will pick up the slack, blah blah blah. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cutting-off-aid-to-egypt-is-the-law/662825/93 "2013-07-12T15:32:00Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I think he means he wants the government out of the foreign aid business because private charity will pick up the slack, blah blah blah. Private charity can’t even pick up the slack _here_. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cutting-off-aid-to-egypt-is-the-law/662825/94 "2013-07-12T15:34:45Z")
_shrug_ I don’t think he cares if Egypt gets foreign aid. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cutting-off-aid-to-egypt-is-the-law/662825/95 "2013-07-12T15:45:51Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I think he means he wants the government out of the foreign aid business because private charity will pick up the slack, blah blah blah. No i don’t care if private charity picks up the slack or not. But yes, in this example if a majority of people want to cut aid to Egypt, you cannot simultaneously exalt both our democracy and the will of the people, because they achieve different ends. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cutting-off-aid-to-egypt-is-the-law/662825/96 "2013-07-12T15:49:06Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > No i don’t care if private charity picks up the slack or not. > > But yes, in this example if a majority of people want to cut aid to Egypt, you cannot simultaneously exalt both our democracy and the will of the people, because they achieve different ends. I think you’ve got the “cannots” down pretty much now-_What are the “cans”?_ ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cutting-off-aid-to-egypt-is-the-law/662825/97 "2013-07-12T15:49:25Z")
[Moderator hat on–does this thing still fit?] Ibn Warraq, step it back or take it to the Pit. [/hat off] ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cutting-off-aid-to-egypt-is-the-law/662825/98 "2013-07-12T15:50:23Z")
> [@](#): > > Yes I forgot the necessity of “uproar” in deciding polit For example consider the fact that a vast majority of citizens want to exit Afganistan, and we continue to occupy that country. The infallible god Democracy has sorted this out for us. Everyone knows the recipe for affecting change democratically is Majority+a dash of Uproar. I don’t disagree in general with what you are saying but our democratic process is hardly ever filled with clear cut choices. I believe the vast majority want an exit from Afghanistan achieved responsibly. I base that on last February polling: > [@](#): > > A Washington Post poll on Tuesday showed that 80% of registered voters support the president’s policy to end the war in Afghanistan. The president’s policy has been to end it responsibly. And that may be what you meant, but I thought I’d try to make it clear. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cutting-off-aid-to-egypt-is-the-law/662825/99 "2013-07-12T17:16:09Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > But yes, in this example if a majority of people want to cut aid to Egypt, you cannot simultaneously exalt both our democracy and the will of the people, because they achieve different ends. If I’m reading you correctly, you think the US government should cut off federal aid to Egypt and let individuals (ie. private citizens) donate to unspecified Egyptian causes out of their own pocket? And this is your idea of letting the people decide? Do you even have a vague notion of how the government works?! 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cutting-off-aid-to-egypt-is-the-law/662825/100 "2013-07-12T18:09:54Z")
> [@Gaudere](#): > > [Moderator hat on–does this thing still fit?] > > Ibn Warraq, step it back or take it to the Pit. > > [/hat off] Okay. Apologies. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cutting-off-aid-to-egypt-is-the-law/662825.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cutting-off-aid-to-egypt-is-the-law/662825.md?page=6)