# Cyclists.. evil bastards? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 9, 2014, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732 "2014-04-09T17:03:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![UTejas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UTejas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UTejas)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/181 "2014-04-14T16:19:43Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > Roads are for cars!! If I wanted to go slow I would have walked! I’m driving a car because I want to go faster than 2 miles an hour! They’re not exclusively for cars. They’re also for bikes, school buses, garbage trucks, mail vans, and any number of other vehicles that go at speeds below the speed limit or make frequent stops. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/182 "2014-04-14T16:21:14Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > The point is that motor vehicles have a lot more mass. If two cars bump, it’s not life-threatening. If a pedestrian or bicyclist is hit by a motor vehicle, it’s a lot more serious. Exactly. Which is why it’s incumbent on motorists to bear the responsibility for their actions: because they’re the ones driving the life-threatening vehicles. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/183 "2014-04-14T16:23:48Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > I am careful, but after all I am the on the road legally. Not if you’re speeding. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/184 "2014-04-14T16:25:43Z")
> [@UTejas](#): > > Lets all just agree that nearly 100% of drivers do not strictly follow the speed limit but are usually good at stopping at stop signs/red lights. Similarly, there’s a large portion, probably a majority, of cyclists who do not come to a full and complete stop at stop signs (and the ones who don’t even try are a serious menace) but are much better about obeying other traffic laws. Pedestrians frequently jaywalk or aren’t attentive when crossing legally. I agree. > [@](#): > > Why is it that only drivers get a free pass, especially since they’re the ones in the vehicles that have the most potential for causing damage? Cyclists and pedestrians follow the speed limit because it is usually physically impossible for them to break it. If it were possible for them to break that law, they would, every bit as often as drivers. Every other law that is conceivably possible for cyclists and pedestrians to break, they do, in large numbers. Cyclists and Pedestrians rigorously follow the law under 2 scenarios, when it is impossible for them to break the law and when breaking the law will result in their deaths. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/185 "2014-04-14T16:26:35Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > No, what I am saying is that if you are a pedestrian or bicyclist and don’t obey the law and get hit by a motorcar, even at low speed, you are going to take the brunt of the damage, whereas people in cars colliding at 10mph are not likely to get hurt. What I am having a problem with is that somehow you have cars going at just 10mph through intersections. Reality has shown us that is simply untrue. Cars probably average 25-35mph through intersections in low-traffic conditions. That kind of speed can do injury to another driver quite easily. > [@](#): > > Is this so difficult to understand? I am both a pedestrian and a driver. I walk all the time and see idiots running and walking and jaywalking. And I see drivers turning right on red without looking or blowing red lights and extending the yellow or jumping the green all the time. All of these things are dangerous behaviors you seem to be ignoring. > [@](#): > > I do not object when bikes are on the sidewalk, because the road (5th avenue) is so busy. Bikes do not belong on the sidewalk. It is dangerous. They belong on the road unless local conditions and laws permit riding on the sidewalks. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/186 "2014-04-14T16:29:17Z")
> [@UTejas](#): > > They’re not exclusively for cars. They’re also for bikes, school buses, garbage trucks, mail vans, and any number of other vehicles that go at speeds below the speed limit or make frequent stops. Yet for some reason, garbage trucks, delivery vans, and buses rarely inspire the kind of rage that cyclists do. I guess as you’ve got to have an internal combustion engine if you want to go slow, or make people go around you. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/187 "2014-04-14T16:33:07Z")
> [@UTejas](#): > > That would cause a lot of damage, which is part of the reason why bikes generally aren’t allowed on sidewalks. Also, 30 mph on a sidewalk is essentially impossible. Which is exactly my point. Here in the bay area we have a lot of bike riders who zoom on sidewalks illegally, and very very fast. ---
**Author:** ![Turble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Turble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turble)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/188 "2014-04-14T16:42:15Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > Yet for some reason, garbage trucks, delivery vans, and buses rarely inspire the kind of rage that cyclists do. Rule #1 for raging bullies: Pick on somebody smaller than you. ---
**Author:** ![UTejas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UTejas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UTejas)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/189 "2014-04-14T17:11:10Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Which is exactly my point. Here in the bay area we have a lot of bike riders who zoom on sidewalks illegally, and very very fast. Oh, I see. Those people should be cited and face heavy fines. Bikes on sidewalks is illegal for several reasons, all of which are good ones. > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > I agree.Cyclists and pedestrians follow the speed limit because it is usually physically impossible for them to break it. If it were possible for them to break that law, they would, every bit as often as drivers. Every other law that is conceivably possible for cyclists and pedestrians to break, they do, in large numbers. > > Cyclists and Pedestrians rigorously follow the law under 2 scenarios, when it is impossible for them to break the law and when breaking the law will result in their deaths. To be fair, fearing death also keeps many drivers in line–at least the ones who don’t care about getting tickets. Nearly every driver breaks the speed limit at least some of the time, but there is a sizable fraction of cyclists who do stop at stop signs even when there is nobody to see them. Also, it’s definitely possible for cyclists to break speed limit laws on many roads. Given a slight downhill on a 25 or even 35 mph road, and the speed limit could be broken if the cyclist really wanted to. Also, there are plenty of mixed-use paths that have a speed limit for bikes. In my hometown we have several mixed-use paths that have a speed limit of 15 mph and, aside from a few jerks, this limit is obeyed. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/190 "2014-04-14T17:13:13Z")
> [@UTejas](#): > > Oh, I see. Those people should be cited and face heavy fines. Bikes on sidewalks is illegal for several reasons, all of which are good ones. > > To be fair, fearing death also keeps many drivers in line–at least the ones who don’t care about getting tickets. Nearly every driver breaks the speed limit at least some of the time, but there is a sizable fraction of cyclists who do stop at stop signs even when there is nobody to see them. > > Also, it’s definitely possible for cyclists to break speed limit laws on many roads. Given a slight downhill on a 25 or even 35 mph road, and the speed limit could be broken if the cyclist really wanted to. Also, there are plenty of mixed-use paths that have a speed limit for bikes. In my hometown we have several mixed-use paths that have a speed limit of 15 mph and, aside from a few jerks, this limit is obeyed. The problem is speed _differences_. Motorcycles are not a problem. Slow-moving vehicles have no business being on roads. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/191 "2014-04-14T17:15:26Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > Slow-moving vehicles have no business being on roads. Why? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/192 "2014-04-14T17:38:51Z")
My business being on a road is that I want to get from point A to point B. Which is exactly the same business a car has being on the road. You want to know what’s crazy, though? Yesterday, a driver got mad at me for not breaking the law. We were both stopped at a red light, and he said to me “You know you don’t need to stop, right?” I just shrugged and said “The light’s red for me, too”. Then he tried the “You shouldn’t be on the road at all!”, and I told him that a bike’s a vehicle, too. “No it’s not!”. The conversation ended then because the light changed. The really odd part is, I wasn’t even impeding him at all. We were next to each other. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/193 "2014-04-14T17:44:35Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > My business being on a road is that I want to get from point A to point B. Which is exactly the same business a car has being on the road. > > You want to know what’s crazy, though? Yesterday, a driver got mad at me for not breaking the law. We were both stopped at a red light, and he said to me “You know you don’t need to stop, right?” I just shrugged and said “The light’s red for me, too”. Then he tried the “You shouldn’t be on the road at all!”, and I told him that a bike’s a vehicle, too. “No it’s not!”. The conversation ended then because the light changed. > > The really odd part is, I wasn’t even impeding him at all. We were next to each other. Far too many drivers don’t know the laws regarding bicycles, or worse they only read select parts they want to read (case in point would be the ‘right as practical’ bit from the Uniform Vehicle Code). Even worse is the rank hypocrisy in actions vs. words. Driver \*say \*they want cyclist to obey the laws, and then punish them with various driving behaviors when they do so. ---
**Author:** ![Turble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Turble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turble)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/194 "2014-04-14T18:31:34Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > Slow-moving vehicles have no business being on roads. I live on a rural road. So far today the mailman has blocked part of the road while delivering my mail, the UPS guy blocked part of the road while delivering my package, the fuel oil guy blocked part of the road while pumping my fuel, two farm tractors have slowly gone down the road, and a school bus brought traffic to a complete standstill for a while. Can you please explain to me how those things are different than the bicycles that have also passed by, sometimes causing traffic to slow momentarily until it was safe to pass? Is it only because they are bigger than your car? Or will you ban them from the roads also? Unless they are delivering to you personally … that would be ok? ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/195 "2014-04-14T18:59:51Z")
> [@UTejas](#): > > Lets all just agree that nearly 100% of drivers do not strictly follow the speed limit but are usually good at stopping at stop signs/red lights. Cite? After starting this thread and hearing others talk about near 100% compliance with stop signs by cars I started observing cars at stop signs. I didn’t right it down and nothing was controlled, so this is purely anecdotal, but the results were painfully clear: Out of the dozens of cars I saw, only 1 or 2 came to a full stop when they weren’t compelled to stop by cross traffic. [This](http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2010/05/26/contempt-for-stop-signs/) site backs that up: > [@](#): > > A 1968 study in Berkeley, Calif., published in Law & Society Review, found that just 14 percent of drivers brought their cars to a full stop “without being forced to do so by cross traffic” > > No one has more doggedly pursued the question of stop-sign compliance than John Trinkaus, who conducted an annual stopping survey at the same intersection for nine straight years in the 1970s and ’80s, finding a creeping decline. In his culminating 1997 masterwork, “Stop Sign Compliance: A Final Look,” Trinkaus revisits his old intersection and finds that the percentage of people making a full stop had dropped from 37 percent in 1979 to a mere 3 percent. So no, I don’t agree that cars are good at stopping at stop signs. Not even close. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/196 "2014-04-14T20:55:28Z")
Let’s hire some married gay couples to take turns riding a tandem bicycle ahead of Melchior’s car. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/197 "2014-04-15T18:27:37Z")
> [@Turble](#): > > Rule #1 for raging bullies: Pick on somebody smaller than you. I can’t count how many times I’ve seen semitrailer hold up four directions of traffic and take up two or three lanes while they slowly try to maneuver their trailers through ordinary city intersections. People calmly wait for them. Sometimes they’ll even back up, so the ass-end of the trailer doesn’t run over them. Yet they never inspire the kind of homicidal rage that a guy on a bicycle does. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/198 "2014-04-15T18:39:53Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > I can’t count how many times I’ve seen semitrailer hold up four directions of traffic and take up two or three lanes while they slowly try to maneuver their trailers through ordinary city intersections. People calmly wait for them. Sometimes they’ll even back up, so the ass-end of the trailer doesn’t run over them. > > Yet they never inspire the kind of homicidal rage that a guy on a bicycle does. There have been times where I have been following a car that is toodling along the street hoping for a perfect parking space. The speed they go is around 10mph. I am behind said driver, cars then stack up behind me. We go like this for a few blocks until the parking space hunter either finds a space or turns off onto a side street. Then as I tool up to a speed of 15-20mph the car behind me _invariably_ has to PASS ME RIGHT NOW!!! They either end up tailgating me or diving over the double-yellow line into oncoming traffic to get around me. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/199 "2014-04-15T19:41:02Z")
What did the bicyclist look like? Let’s see now. He was wearing: White cowboy boots with red stars up the sides. Check. Black fishnet stockings. Check. Vibrant green spandex Racing Thong. Check. Push up bra with gold tassels. Check. Sun glasses with Rose colored lenses. Definitely Check. Black and white checkered Bowler with peacock feather. Check. Right arm extended holding red lace parasol with black fringe. Check. Oh, and multicolored streamers attached to each hand grip of the handle bars. Yeah, those too. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/200 "2014-04-15T20:05:14Z")
I guess we won’t be hearing Melchior’s explanation as to why he thinks bikes should not be on the roads. Now we just have to wait until Little Pig comes down off of whatever he’s been snorting. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732.md?page=11)