# Cyclists.. evil bastards? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 9, 2014, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732 "2014-04-09T17:03:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/41 "2014-04-09T20:20:08Z")
Yeah what about the two cyclists who ran red lights and nearly ran me over while I was crossing the street as a pedestrian when I had a “walk” signal? Was that the kind of shortcut everyone takes? ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/42 "2014-04-09T20:27:11Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > No, I don’t assume bikes have special privileges. Far from it. But I see cars come to a rolling stop at stop signs all the time. Just because a driver breaks the law, it doesn’t mean you have a right to also. As a motorist, I do obey all traffic laws. I come to complete stops at stop signs and I try to be aware of cyclists and give them the same consideration I do to motorists. In return, I expect cyclists to obey the rules the same as I do. Don’t ride on the left side of the street against the traffic flow (I see this a lot) and stop at stop signs and red lights. I’m not a perfect driver, but I try my best. If you make an effort, too, we’ll both be safer. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/43 "2014-04-09T20:35:15Z")
If you were really concerned for your safety, I should think stopping at stop signs would be at the top of the list. That’s maybe not your best defence, I’m thinking. And really, “Well I almost got hit once!” So I must be right! ---
**Author:** ![phreesh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@phreesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phreesh)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/44 "2014-04-09T20:35:24Z")
First, bikes can safely stop themselves within about 5 feet. Second, bikes carry the mass of their rider plus maybe 40 pounds. To insist that bikes come to a complete stop at a deserted intersection is rules lawyering. Yes, it’s strictly illegal, but its also practically perfectly safe. I pretty much never fully stop at stop signs in areas with light cross traffic. Of course I stop at stop signs where there is a line-up of cars in two directions or there are pedestrians crossing, but a nice slowdown with glances in all directions and fingers on the brake lever has sufficed in my years of safe riding. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/45 "2014-04-09T20:40:36Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Come to where I live and show me the grass that’s not someone’s lawn. I DON’T CARE. Run somewhere else then! Don’t run in the street! It’s not safe! ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/46 "2014-04-09T20:46:44Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > In my experience, most cars don’t come to a complete stop at a stop sign or when making a right turn on red. In a perfect world they would, but the majority don’t. I’m not convinced this is excessively dangerous but it’s certainly not safer. I’m in complete agreement. I will also point out that if I see a cyclist rolling through an intersection, it’s because I’m there sitting in my car, at the intersection. If there is a car at the intersection, that intersection is busy, and other drivers/riders should be more cautious about coming to a full stop for things like stop signs and red lights. If the intersection is empty, I have no problem with a cyclist slowing down to near-stall speeds, checking the traffic pattern, then proceeding, for a stop sign. I still think you should not pass through a red light, except to make a legal turn. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/47 "2014-04-09T20:49:57Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > I > > DON’T > > CARE. > > Run somewhere else then! Don’t run in the street! It’s not safe! And neither is the sidewalk by a wide margin since drivers can’t be bothered to look or sightlines are compromised. ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/48 "2014-04-09T20:50:30Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > Yes, we do. May we assume you don’t drive much? Do you think bikes have special privileges? _ **THEY DON’T!!!** _ > > Do you have light your bike for night-time riding? You are supposed to, but I see bikes at night all the time without them. Who is this “we” you speak of? As a driver, I encounter multiple 3- and 4-way stops every day (all with multiple lanes) and see drivers roll through all the time. Then there are the ones turning onto the main road that figure that as long as oncoming traffic doesn’t have to slam on the brakes that they can go ahead and not even pretend to stop. My city has a large bicyclist population and I encounter far more dangerous/annoying drivers than bikers. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/49 "2014-04-09T20:54:19Z")
See this bridge, with the \*\*\*huge \*\*\*concrete sides (especially on the right side) for pedestrians and bicycles? [https://www.google.com/maps/@39.984086,-83.020608,3a,25.1y,272.59h,83.82t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s6d2GxRvGd5Fma15LSu0agQ!2e0!6m1!1e1](https://www.google.com/maps/@39.984086,-83.020608,3a,25.1y,272.59h,83.82t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s6d2GxRvGd5Fma15LSu0agQ!2e0!6m1!1e1) Why would any bicyclist want to ride where the cars are? It’s stupid and dangerous? I cross this bridge several times per day. There is a trail that goes under the bridge. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/50 "2014-04-09T20:59:33Z")
> [@phreesh](#): > > To insist that bikes come to a complete stop at a deserted intersection is rules lawyering. Yes, it’s strictly illegal, but its also practically perfectly safe. I pretty much never fully stop at stop signs in areas with light cross traffic. [All it takes is one vehicle being where you don’t expect it to be.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=16243321) Just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/51 "2014-04-09T21:05:10Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > Why would any bicyclist want to ride where the cars are? It’s stupid and dangerous? Because it’s [illegal (.pdf)](http://getactivecolumbus.com/uploadedFiles/Area_of_Interest/Get_Active/Site_Pages/RulesOfTheRoad%20%281%29.pdf) for cyclists to ride on the sidewalk? > [@](#): > > Riding on sidewalks is illegal in the City of Columbus. For your bridge, the cyclist would have to ride on the street, legally, then jump the curb to get onto the sidewalk for the bridge section, then off the curb again to ride legally. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/52 "2014-04-09T21:06:16Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > See this bridge, with the \*\*\*huge \*\*\*concrete sides (especially on the right side) for pedestrians and bicycles? There are big concrete barriers, but unless that sidewalk is marked as a multi-use path the area on the other side is a sidewalk which isn’t legal or safe for me to ride. I feel I’m safer in the road. I rode to work in Boston traffic year-round, that bridge is trivial. As a cyclist that bridge doesn’t worry me at all. Bikes and cars can co-exist on most roads. There are some exceptions (the Sagamore Bridge to Cape Cod is one, for example) and I’ll gladly abide the rules when they are needed. But I bike, run, and drive on roads in all sorts of places and don’t have the problems you keep complaining about. If you can’t safely pass me on the road then wait until it’s safe. Such is life on the roads. ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/53 "2014-04-09T21:08:17Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > People complain about cyclists because most people drive cars. Cyclists are the minority. > > But the truth is drivers are the jerks. They’re the ones driving gas-guzzling 1000+ pounds of glass and metal that endanger the lives of everyone around them and pollute the atmosphere. Not to mention the vast stretches of public space that have been turned into concrete and blacktop, purely for their use. > > But they don’t think about that. Instead they complain about cyclists. I really wish you hadn’t brought all this up. It is going to escalate this into a car vs. bike debate that I’d rather not this devolve into. I’d like to keep this to this situation only. Take rants against cars (or against cyclists) to the dozen other threads on that. ---
**Author:** ![Athabasca](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Athabasca](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athabasca)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/54 "2014-04-09T21:08:34Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > Thanks for your views on this. I assume you don’t cycle much, which is fine because I am looking for varied opinions. Would it be safe to assume that every time you are approaching a 4 way stop and there are any other cars around, even ones that are at least 30 feet away from the intersection and slowing down, that you come to a complete stop before proceeding? > > I’m not trying to cast aspersions. There is a reason this isn’t in the pit. I’m looking for opinions, not debate or rancor. I always stop, because the sign says STOP. if I am turning, even if there is no one around, I signal too. ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/55 "2014-04-09T21:12:11Z")
> [@EmAnJ](#): > > Avid cyclist, both as a commuter and as a roadie. OP is a jerk. > > I understand not coming to a stop if there is zero traffic. I would do a rolling stop in my vehicle in most of those types of situations. If there is any traffic, you STOP before you take your right of way. The stop is essentially the moment you ‘get in line’ for right of way. Being on a bike does not negate this rule. How fast do you think I’m going through the stop sign? If there is any doubt about right of way, or if I need to definitely declare my right of way, I stop. On the other hand, if it is obvious I’d have the right of way, I don’t come to a _complete_ stop because it would actually slow both of us down. But I only do this if it is safe for me. In other words I’m CERTAIN I can clear the intersection (not with speeding through the stop sign, but rolling through it) before the car enters it. ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/56 "2014-04-09T21:15:58Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > My point was it is hard enough driving as it is without having to worry about fools who think they own the roads. They are for cars, not for bikers or for runners! We only have to tolerate you because the law says so. I don’t like bikes on the road at all. Again, I do appreciate you chiming into this discussion. It is good for me to hear opinions from other people. It is why I asked. I ask that we try to keep this on the topic of 4 way stop signs and not just bikes on the road in general. That is another topic, I think. Although I see your point that if you think bikes don’t belong on the road at all, they certainly don’t belong at 4-way stop signs and rolling through them. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/57 "2014-04-09T21:20:20Z")
> [@Athabasca](#): > > I always stop, because the sign says STOP. if I am turning, even if there is no one around, I signal too. I failed a road test for my current license for not to coming to a complete stop before turning. Damn right I always stop and signal, even if I’m on a bicycle! ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/58 "2014-04-09T21:20:36Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > So, if you don’t mind someone else doing it illegally, that makes it okay for you to do it? Can’t they say the same, seeing you do it? Now no one feels they have to actually ‘stop’ at stop signs. What? > > And, a red light is a complete stop and you have to wait, but because a stop sign you may not have to wait, so you don’t actually have to stop? What? I think my point is that if I don’t mind someone else doing it, I shouldn’t mind if a different group altogether does the same thing. I don’t mind cars rolling through stop signs, although I do think they have to be more careful because of they have less visibility, less auditory input and far more mass and inflict far more damage. That isn’t to say cyclists can’t inflict plenty of damage, but a car and a cyclist hitting someone at the same speed would do very different levels of damage. Stop signs are generally at lower traffic and lower speed intersections. I agree it is a bit arbitrary, though, saying that one should stop at one but not necessarily at the other. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/59 "2014-04-09T21:24:33Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Because it’s [illegal (.pdf)](http://getactivecolumbus.com/uploadedFiles/Area_of_Interest/Get_Active/Site_Pages/RulesOfTheRoad%20%281%29.pdf) for cyclists to ride on the sidewalk? > > For your bridge, the cyclist would have to ride on the street, legally, then jump the curb to get onto the sidewalk for the bridge section, then off the curb again to ride legally. THAT’S NOT A SIDEWALK FOR PEDESTRIANS ONLY! It was purposely made wide to accommodate bikes AND pedestrians. The roadway is too fucking narrow! ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/60 "2014-04-09T21:25:45Z")
I got a ticket for rolling through a stop on my bike years and years ago. It was at 6:30 in the morning and the policeman had the intersection staked out to catch cars that were blowing through the stop sign. The fine was $135 and I went to court hoping the police officer wouldn’t show up. He did show up, so that gambit didn’t work. However, I told the judge I thought the fine was too high and he reduced it to $28. I’ve learned my lesson…I always at put a foot down at stop signs now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732.md?page=4)