# Cyclists.. evil bastards? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 9, 2014, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732 "2014-04-09T17:03:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/61 "2014-04-09T21:26:57Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Just because a driver breaks the law, it doesn’t mean you have a right to also. As a motorist, I do obey all traffic laws. I come to complete stops at stop signs and I try to be aware of cyclists and give them the same consideration I do to motorists. In return, I expect cyclists to obey the rules the same as I do. Don’t ride on the left side of the street against the traffic flow (I see this a lot) and stop at stop signs and red lights. I’m not a perfect driver, but I try my best. If you make an effort, too, we’ll both be safer. Fair enough. I wasn’t trying to say that I get to break the law because motorists do. I am saying I’m breaking the same law I see many motorists break and I don’t get up in arms when I see motorists doing it. So I feel my position is at least consistent between bikes and cars. I wasn’t sure if people who were saying that cyclists MUST stop at all stop signs regardless of conditions felt the same way about cars. And if they see cars rolling through a stop sign, do they view that with the same disdain they seem to feel when seeing cyclists do it? I have no grief with people who claim it is wrong. It is illegal and they are entitled to that opinion. I just see it differently and my experience, based on how often I see cars doing it, is that MANY people think it is okay to roll through stop signs. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/62 "2014-04-09T21:33:21Z")
So it’s okay for you to do, because you don’t mind when you see people doing it? Even though it’s illegal? So if I don’t mind shoplifters, it’s okay for me to take it up? Even though it’s illegal? Not buying it, sorry. You’re really arguing that you do it safely so the rule shouldn’t apply to you. But I’m certain you can’t see that. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/63 "2014-04-09T21:36:46Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > THAT’S NOT A SIDEWALK FOR PEDESTRIANS ONLY! It was purposely made wide to accommodate bikes AND pedestrians. The roadway is too fucking narrow! The sidewalk leading up to the bridge is far too narrow for both bikes and peds. And as has been pointed out, it’s ILLEGAL for adults to ride on the sidewalk. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/64 "2014-04-09T21:40:14Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > The sidewalk leading up to the bridge is far too narrow for both bikes and peds. > And as has been pointed out, it’s ILLEGAL for adults to ride on the sidewalk. Not it’s NOT!!! That is NOT a sidewalk! It is a bridge! See the trail connected to the bridge: [https://www.google.com/maps/place/455+W+3rd+Ave/@39.984086,-83.020608,3a,90y,326.91h,68.38t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s6d2GxRvGd5Fma15LSu0agQ!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x53628474b909baad:0x7d2d112749710430](https://www.google.com/maps/place/455+W+3rd+Ave/@39.984086,-83.020608,3a,90y,326.91h,68.38t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s6d2GxRvGd5Fma15LSu0agQ!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x53628474b909baad:0x7d2d112749710430) ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/65 "2014-04-09T21:41:27Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > Not it’s NOT!!! That is NOT a sidewalk! It is a bridge! Go back a bit, there’s a sidewalk leading to the bridge. And there’s no ramp to allow the transition from road to sidewalk. And before you say to hop the curb, try hopping a handcycle. ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/66 "2014-04-09T21:46:04Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > So it’s okay for you to do, because you don’t mind when you see people doing it? Even though it’s illegal? > > So if I don’t mind shoplifters, it’s okay for me to take it up? Even though it’s illegal? > > Not buying it, sorry. You’re really arguing that you do it safely so the rule shouldn’t apply to you. But I’m certain you can’t see that. If you shoplift I would expect that you wouldn’t think other shoplifters are self-entitled, privileged jerks, to be self-consistent. I don’t shop lift, so I would don’t think it is okay. It wouldn’t matter to me if cyclists shoplifted or motorists. I’d think they are both wrong. Obviously I do think what I’m doing is safe, so you are dead on with that assessment. I’m not sure what you think I can’t see, though. If you think cyclists MUST completely stop at all stop signs under all conditions, I have no problem with you thinking that. But if you think that rule doesn’t equally apply to motorists I’d wonder why the difference. Even if you do think it applies to both, my next question would if you have the same disdain for cyclists that break this particular law as you do for motorists. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/67 "2014-04-09T21:46:08Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Go back a bit, there’s a sidewalk leading to the bridge. And there’s no ramp to allow the transition from road to sidewalk. > And before you say to hop the curb, try hopping a handcycle. Get off and walk it then. They have changed that area since the photo was taken and installed a ‘flower bed’ with a ramped crosswalk (which allows the rider to go up onto that area). But the flower bed thing is idiotic. ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/68 "2014-04-09T21:47:19Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Go back a bit, there’s a sidewalk leading to the bridge. And there’s no ramp to allow the transition from road to sidewalk. > And before you say to hop the curb, try hopping a handcycle. To prevent this from becoming another cars vs. bikes debate and whether or not bikes even belong on the road, can this be dropped? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/69 "2014-04-09T21:50:43Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > See the trail connected to the bridge: You _can_ approach that bridge from the bike trail, but you can also approach it while riding on the road. In the latter case you have to dismount, go over the curb, remount and ride the short distance across the bridge, then dismount again, go back into the roadway and continue your ride. I’d just stay on the road. The bridge is plenty wide for bikes and cars to cross safely, I’m not sure why you think it’s too narrow. I ride on roads much narrower than that frequently. Just because a bike path is available doesn’t mean riders need to use it. Unless bikes are specifically forbidden on the roadway (and some places they are) lots of riders are going to use the road, and for good reason. It’s quicker, has less interruptions, and in many ways it’s safer. Bike paths are often crowded, they have dogs on long leashes, kids running around, people walking 3 abreast oblivious to others, and my particular bane - rollerbladers. For the most part, I ride in the road even the a bikepath that parallels part of my usual ride. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/70 "2014-04-09T21:51:51Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > To prevent this from becoming another cars vs. bikes debate and whether or not bikes even belong on the road, can this be dropped? Understood. But that’s what all these threads eventually turn into, sadly. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/71 "2014-04-09T21:52:10Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > You _can_ approach that bridge from the bike trail, but you can also approach it while riding on the road. In the latter case you have to dismount, go over the curb, remount and ride the short distance across the bridge, then dismount again, go back into the roadway and continue your ride. I’d just stay on the road. The bridge is plenty wide for bikes and cars to cross safely, I’m not sure why you think it’s too narrow. I ride on roads much narrower than that frequently. > > Just because a bike path is available doesn’t mean riders need to use it. Unless bikes are specifically forbidden on the roadway (and some places they are) lots of riders are going to use the road, and for good reason. It’s quicker, has less interruptions, and in many ways it’s safer. Bike paths are often crowded, they have dogs on long leashes, kids running around, people walking 3 abreast oblivious to others, and my particular bane - rollerbladers. For the most part, I ride in the road even the a bikepath that parallels part of my usual ride. They have changed that area since the photo was taken and installed a ‘flower bed’ along with a \*ramped crosswalk \*(which easily allows the rider to go up onto that area). But the flower bed thing is idiotic. Busses and emergency vehicles and trucks use that bridge often. It’s too narrow! ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/72 "2014-04-09T21:52:50Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > \*\*Get off and walk it then. > \*\* > They have changed that area since the photo was taken and installed a ‘flower bed’ with a ramped crosswalk (which allows the rider to go up onto that area). But the flower bed thing is idiotic. Think real hard on why someone will be using a handcycle. ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/73 "2014-04-09T21:58:02Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Understood. But that’s what all these threads eventually turn into, sadly. I’m trying to prevent that for as long as possible. I’ve gotten some interesting opinions and I’d like to keep that going for a bit, if I can. It has always been such a non-event in my mind that I never thought twice about it. When people talk about idiot, privileged, chaotic, self-entitled, etc. cyclists I never imagined that slowly rolling through a stop sign was one of those cases. But the thread in the pit of a driver who didn’t like the fact that a cyclist was balanced on his bike at a stop light made me wonder just how far down this opinion of cyclists goes. I know some people hate everything cyclists do, but I figured they were in the minority. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/74 "2014-04-09T22:07:44Z")
Back in the '80s, one of my sisters was deliberately wiped out by a member of that minority while in the middle of an intersection. Spent a few weeks in the hospital followed by several months of rehab. IIRC, the driver got a hefty fine and a few months in jail. ---
**Author:** ![UTejas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UTejas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UTejas)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/75 "2014-04-09T22:20:23Z")
I am a cyclist, and I stop at every stop sign and follow all the relevant traffic laws. I don’t necessarily put my foot down at a stop sign, because that’s the bicycle equivalent of putting a car into park. You can cease forward motion on a bike without having to put feet down, the same way a car can be stopped without shifting into park. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/76 "2014-04-09T22:25:19Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Just because a bike path is available doesn’t mean riders need to use it. Unless bikes are specifically forbidden on the roadway (and some places they are) lots of riders are going to use the road, and for good reason. It’s quicker, has less interruptions, and in many ways it’s safer. Bike paths are often crowded, they have dogs on long leashes, kids running around, people walking 3 abreast oblivious to others, and my particular bane - rollerbladers. For the most part, I ride in the road even the a bikepath that parallels part of my usual ride. Out here we mostly have bike\* lanes\* which are part of the street, so no dogs, kids or pedestrians. I am OK if you ride in the street as long as you stay out of my car’s way and follow the rules- at least mostly. \*\*But stay off the fucking sidewalk. \*\*:mad: ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/77 "2014-04-09T22:25:36Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > In other words I’m CERTAIN I can clear the intersection (not with speeding through the stop sign, but rolling through it) before the car enters it. There are drivers who think they can beat trains to railroad crossings, too. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/78 "2014-04-09T22:28:26Z")
> [@UTejas](#): > > I am a cyclist, and I stop at every stop sign and follow all the relevant traffic laws. I don’t necessarily put my foot down at a stop sign, because that’s the bicycle equivalent of putting a car into park. You can cease forward motion on a bike without having to put feet down, the same way a car can be stopped without shifting into park. Not me. 'Course, I have a terrible sense of balance. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/79 "2014-04-09T22:31:26Z")
> [@UTejas](#): > > I am a cyclist, and I stop at every stop sign and follow all the relevant traffic laws. I don’t necessarily put my foot down at a stop sign, because that’s the bicycle equivalent of putting a car into park. You can cease forward motion on a bike without having to put feet down, the same way a car can be stopped without shifting into park. Same here. Even when I ride at O:dark:30 I stop for every sign and light. I don’t have the balance for a track stand so I do put a foot down. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/80 "2014-04-09T22:59:55Z")
> [@EmAnJ](#): > > I understand not coming to a stop if there is zero traffic. I would do a rolling stop in my vehicle in most of those types of situations. If there is any traffic, you STOP before you take your right of way. The stop is essentially the moment you ‘get in line’ for right of way. Being on a bike does not negate this rule. Driver here. i agree with this. I don’t personally mind a bicyclist not stopping at a four-way stop when no one’s around. I think the reason there’s so much vitriol against it is that so many also don’t stop when there _is_ traffic around, and essentially go before their turn. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732.md?page=5)