# Cyclists.. evil bastards? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 9, 2014, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732 "2014-04-09T17:03:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/141 "2014-04-14T03:09:46Z")
> [@Little\_Pig](#): > > You were lucky. This thing doesn’t happen every day but I have experienced it numerous times. 20 years, 600-1200 miles/week and you think I just happened to never see such a thing but you’ve seen it numerous times. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/142 "2014-04-14T03:12:11Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > 20 years, 600-1200 miles/week and you think I just happened to never see such a thing but you’ve seen it numerous times. :rolleyes: Maybe its because, I dunno . . . What color is your unicorn again? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/143 "2014-04-14T03:16:19Z")
> [@Little\_Pig](#): > > Maybe its because, I dunno . . . What color is your unicorn again? Now you see, it’s not legal to ride a unicorn in the street. A bicycle on the other hand, is legal, same as a car. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/144 "2014-04-14T03:22:33Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > Can you clarify this for me? Am I a jerk because I don’t come to a full stop when there is a car some distance away? Because otherwise I read this as you and I doing the same thing. I think I must be misunderstanding something. Yeah, I came to a rolling stop too but while I was rolling I was seeing crazy things to my left lane, those who were going in the same direction as myself, and seeing small things get really big in my rear view mirror. It was one of those, “Oh Shit, something bad is gonna happen” moments. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/145 "2014-04-14T03:41:05Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > The stretch from El Camino to where the road widens after passing under Alma St. is just over a half mile. At 35 mph, you will cover the distance in 51 sec. A cyclist, going 20 mph (given your description of his clothes, he’s most likely capable of this for at least that short stretch) will use 90 sec. You’re willing to maim or kill over a 39 sec. delay. You’re going to be delayed a shit-ton more than that just waiting to get on 101. This happened _before_ the Alma overpass. Geez, do I have to draw you a picture?[Oh Wait, I did right, here, in my original post, number 101 of this thread.](https://www.google.com/maps/@37.425851,-122.14004,3a,75y,352.46h,72.14t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sp1bl2uqEylWuHTUe5E3Ntg!2e0?hl=en) See that thing going over the road. Its the CalTrrans overpass with the Alma overpass right behind it. See down the right hand lane just before it disappears into the shadows? That’s where Mr. Happy Face was. 🙂 And there is an off ramp just past there to the right were screaming maniacs were (and always are) trying to exit. So you have two lanes and a third lane merging off to your right. Note: This image in no way reflects traffic as it occurred at the time in question. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/146 "2014-04-14T03:53:33Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > I’m a recreational cyclist. I ride to work and on the way there is a 4 way stop. In each direction there is a left turn lane and a bike lane, along with the regular car lane. Visibility when approaching the intersection is at least several blocks in every direction. > > As I’m approaching this intersection, typically around 15 or 20 mph (speed limit is 25mph), if I have right of way and there is no danger of an approaching car smashing me, I don’t come to a complete stop. I will slow down if a car is approaching to be sure the car won’t run the stop sign and run into me, but otherwise I just go. If I don’t have right of way, I will slow down but not necessarily stop. If he car goes, I can go after that. If the car stops and waits to see what I’ll do, I stop and let them go. > > If there is more than 1 car, I have to judge who has right of way just like I was a car. > > Would you consider this me being one of those jerk cyclists everyone is complaining about? Nope. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/147 "2014-04-14T03:54:22Z")
And the road is clearly too narrow for a bike and car side by side. I was using the section from El Camino to past Alma St. as that’s where the road is narrow enough that sharing is required. also, the cyclist would need to take the lane due to both the exiting and merging traffic. Like I said, I’m very familiar with that section. I was pointing out that all your frothing was over saving 39 seconds through that stretch. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/148 "2014-04-14T04:01:02Z")
I see a lot of excuse-making and hand-waving for serious violations of drivers, and a desperate attempts to blame everyone else not in a car by Mr. pay-to-see-cyclists get killed. We’ve seen your picture. THERE WAS NOTHING WRONG WITH WHAT THE CYCLIST WAS DOING. You doubtless had much greater delays caused by your fellow drivers and I’ve seen and been in plenty of situations like the one you have described. You are whining and desiring to pay for the death of a cyclist because you were at the absolute most ‘slightly inconvenienced’. If you want to talk about delays, I can tell you about the delays cars can cause. I think the ratio of time lost by cars slowing down me on my bike vs. me slowing them down is at 10:1. But typical of far too many arrogant, self-centered drivers if the delay is caused by a car you shrug and put up with it, but if it is a cyclist steam comes out of your ears - or in your case you want to pay to see them murdered. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/149 "2014-04-14T04:10:05Z")
> [@Little\_Pig](#): > > With all of the cars swerving and braking in front of me trying avoid this clown, he could have caused a lot of injuries to others. Nonsense. If there is a lot of cars swerving and braking then there are a lot of drivers who are poorly handling their vehicles. We’ve actually covered this ‘injuries caused by vehicles swerving to avoid cyclists’ on this forum and found it was purely the imagination of drivers trying to find excuses for cyclists to not be on the roads. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/150 "2014-04-14T04:12:07Z")
> [@Little\_Pig](#): > > She did no doubt. Then that is the end of it. > [@](#): > > But she didn’t even look. aaaand you try to blame her anyway. > [@](#): > > I picked up on her right away but there are a lot of distracted drivers who probably would not have. One right next to me barely did. That is the fault of the driver. Why is this even a discussion? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/151 "2014-04-14T04:41:23Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > And the road is clearly too narrow for a bike and car side by side. I was using the section from El Camino to past Alma St. as that’s where the road is narrow enough that sharing is required. > > also, the cyclist would need to take the lane due to both the exiting and merging traffic. > > Like I said, I’m very familiar with that section. I was pointing out that all your frothing was over saving 39 seconds through that stretch. If you go with the flow of traffic it is a lot less than 39 seconds. See the left lane? That’s what you gotta be careful of if you’re in the right lane because drivers dart from the left lane, across the right lane, right onto the exit ramp at the extreme right which cannot be seen from the image I provided. (Nudge Google Maps under the over pass and the exit ramp on the extreme right will appear). Now put a bicyclist in that area. Its just not safe. Unfortunately, this is the only way to get over the rail road tracks, by going under them, on Page Mill/Oregon Expy, in that immediate area. I sense that’s the cause of the problem. Any other cyclists out there who have to travel The Gauntlet to get around an obstacle such as railroad tracks? ---
**Author:** ![UTejas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UTejas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UTejas)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/152 "2014-04-14T04:46:37Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > That is the fault of the driver. Why is this even a discussion? If we are going to be charitable, the reason this is a discussion is because of the mindset of drivers and viewing everything through the lens of driving a car. Obviously we all agree that stepping out into traffic without looking is a bad idea. It’s a bad idea even if you have the undisputed right of way. The problem is that most drivers contextualize this under the view that they could not imagine the guilt of hitting a person who stepped into traffic and want to blame to pedestrian for a poor choice. It’s easier to be upset that someone didn’t look before entering a crosswalk than to approach every crosswalk while driving as if some pedestrian is going to step out. When it comes to dealing with cyclists, most drivers tend to view it through the same lens. They don’t want to be responsible for hitting someone. They manifest that worry into anger at a bike being on the road, possibly taking up a whole lane. It’s easier to be mad at the person who is doing something different than to simply drive the speed limit. It’s absurd that we have a person in this thread talking about the speed limit as “a theoretical limit” and then blaming the one person on the road who is following the rules! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/153 "2014-04-14T04:50:32Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Nonsense. If there is a lot of cars swerving and braking then there are a lot of drivers who are poorly handling their vehicles. E-x-a-c-t-l-y. I deal with this everyday. > [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > We’ve actually covered this ‘injuries caused by vehicles swerving to avoid cyclists’ on this forum and found it was purely the imagination of drivers trying to find excuses for cyclists to not be on the roads. Bullshit. About three years ago I was following a van on the same road mentioned above, but further down where things straighten out. I left plenty of space between my car and the van. Out of nowhere (okay, the bike lane to my right) “Lance Armstrong” appears in front of my car. He cranks up his speed so he can “draft” the van in front of me. I kid you not. If _only_ I had a dash cam :smack: Just could not believe what I saw. Note: This was an extreme case but it did happen. Wanna know how I felt about it :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![UTejas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UTejas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UTejas)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/154 "2014-04-14T04:51:25Z")
> [@Little\_Pig](#): > > If you go with the flow of traffic it is a lot less than 39 seconds. See the left lane? That’s what you gotta be careful of if you’re in the right lane because drivers dart from the left lane, across the right lane, right onto the exit ramp at the extreme right which cannot be seen from the image I provided. (Nudge Google Maps under the over pass and the exit ramp on the extreme right will appear). Now put a bicyclist in that area. Its just not safe. Unfortunately, this is the only way to get over the rail road tracks, by going under them, on Page Mill/Oregon Expy, in that immediate area. I sense that’s the cause of the problem. > > Any other cyclists out there who have to travel The Gauntlet to get around an obstacle such as railroad tracks? It sounds like the source of the problem is cars traveling faster than the speed limit and making unannounced, unsignaled lane changes without looking. That’s the bicyclist’s fault? You’re conflating two issues: whether or not what the person is doing is legal/safe and whether or not you’d do the same thing. We get it, you would not feel safe riding a bike on this road. The cyclist is the one following the law. Believe it or not, the safest place to be is in the center of the right lane. Not only is the lane too narrow to share, but imagine a bike is to the right of a faster-moving car in the same right lane. He’d be invisible to a car coming from the left lane looking to take an off ramp. The safest place to be is where the cyclist is the most visible. Whether or not you’d take the risk of riding a bike on that road is a separate issue. You can think it is dangerous, but it is dangerous because other people are behaving dangerously and illegally. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/155 "2014-04-14T04:57:14Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Then that is the end of it. > > aaaand you try to blame her anyway. > > That is the fault of the driver. Why is this even a discussion? Wait until it happens … To You … Then we can talk. 😉 Sound good? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/156 "2014-04-14T05:08:07Z")
> [@UTejas](#): > > It sounds like the source of the problem is cars traveling faster than the speed limit and making unannounced, unsignaled lane changes without looking. That’s the bicyclist’s fault? No, its not the bicyclist’s fault. Its the fault of those who choose to drive with out regard for the safety of others. And if you are a bicyclist who chooses to mingle with these types of drivers, well, you’re either naive or daft. And if you are a driver who does drive with regard for the safety of others, well, you post your misgivings, here 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/157 "2014-04-14T05:37:46Z")
> [@UTejas](#): > > If we are going to be charitable, the reason this is a discussion is because of the mindset of drivers and viewing everything through the lens of driving a car. Obviously we all agree that stepping out into traffic without looking is a bad idea. It’s a bad idea even if you have the undisputed right of way. The problem is that most drivers contextualize this under the view that they could not imagine the guilt of hitting a person who stepped into traffic and want to blame to pedestrian for a poor choice. It’s easier to be upset that someone didn’t look before entering a crosswalk than to approach every crosswalk while driving as if some pedestrian is going to step out. Hose shit. She walked into a crosswalk while pushing a child in a carriage in front of her while texting. (Try, try real hard to “contextualize” that). And yes, I do approach every crosswalk while driving as if some pedestrian is going to step out. > [@UTejas](#): > > When it comes to dealing with cyclists, most drivers tend to view it through the same lens. They don’t want to be responsible for hitting someone. They manifest that worry into anger at a bike being on the road, possibly taking up a whole lane. It’s easier to be mad at the person who is doing something different than to simply drive the speed limit. It’s absurd that we have a person in this thread talking about the speed limit as “a theoretical limit” and then blaming the one person on the road who is following the rules! No, its not absurd. I was put in a position where I could have been involved in an accident, either in front or behind me. Maybe my fault was in trying to drive the speed limit, you know, not being aggressive enough, not trying to insist upon my right of way. If I had I would have been way in front of this situation. On the other hand, if I had, this thread probably would not have gone on as long as it has. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/158 "2014-04-14T12:05:48Z")
> [@Little\_Pig](#): > > If you go with the flow of traffic it is a lot less than 39 seconds. See the left lane? That’s what you gotta be careful of if you’re in the right lane because drivers dart from the left lane, across the right lane, right onto the exit ramp at the extreme right which cannot be seen from the image I provided. So bad lane-changing behavior of drivers is the fault of the cyclist. > [@](#): > > (Nudge Google Maps under the over pass and the exit ramp on the extreme right will appear). Now put a bicyclist in that area. Its just not safe. By your warped judgement. > [@](#): > > Unfortunately, this is the only way to get over the rail road tracks, by going under them, on Page Mill/Oregon Expy, in that immediate area. I sense that’s the cause of the problem. So you get hysterical about a cyclist traveling legally on a road which is the only choice to get through that area section. For this you call him names and try to handwave and excuse horrific driving habits, and wish he were killed. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/159 "2014-04-14T12:10:34Z")
> [@Little\_Pig](#): > > No, its not the bicyclist’s fault. So for something that was not the cyclist’s fault you WISHED HE WAS KILLED?! not to mention referred to him as “widget-head, some dingle-ball, some half-baked cretin”?! You are what is wrong with drivers: Even if you drive properly, you excuse the rancid driving habits of those around you and seek to blame everyone except the bad drivers around you. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/160 "2014-04-14T12:13:18Z")
> [@Little\_Pig](#): > > Wait until it happens … To You … Then we can talk. 😉 Sound good? I have had pedestrians do all kinds of stupid shit in front of my bike - the difference is that said pedestrians were doing something stupid such as jaywalking. One thing I never complained about was a pedestrian trying to cross an intersection legally in front of me. How could I?! And yet you are doing just that! What’s worse is you fail to understand where the blame for the incident truly lies. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732.md?page=9)