# Cyclists.. evil bastards? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 9, 2014, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732 "2014-04-09T17:03:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/161 "2014-04-14T12:16:29Z")
> [@Little\_Pig](#): > > E-x-a-c-t-l-y. I deal with this everyday. So why is this the cyclists’ fault and you wish they were dead? > [@](#): > > Bullshit. About three years ago I was following a van on the same road mentioned above, but further down where things straighten out. I left plenty of space between my car and the van. Out of nowhere (okay, the bike lane to my right) “Lance Armstrong” appears in front of my car. He cranks up his speed so he can “draft” the van in front of me. I kid you not. If _only_ I had a dash cam :smack: Just could not believe what I saw. That does not seem to involve anyone swerving to avoid a cyclist. This incident does not seem as dire as you describe. > [@](#): > > Note: This was an extreme case but it did happen. Wanna know how I felt about it :rolleyes: More murder-wishes from you? ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/162 "2014-04-14T14:04:30Z")
I see bicyclists running red lights all the time. I see pedestrians jay-walking all the time. They are all idiots. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/163 "2014-04-14T14:49:42Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > I see bicyclists running red lights all the time. I see pedestrians jay-walking all the time. They are all idiots. Well thank goodness that drivers never ever break the law. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/164 "2014-04-14T14:56:40Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Well thank goodness that drivers never ever break the law. The point is that motor vehicles have a lot more mass. If two cars bump, it’s not life-threatening. If a pedestrian or bicyclist is hit by a motor vehicle, it’s a lot more serious. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/165 "2014-04-14T15:02:16Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > If two cars bump, it’s not life-threatening. :dubious: You want to look up some numbers on traffic fatalities for people in 4+ wheeled vehicles versus all other methods (pedestrians, bicycles, motocycles, etc)? ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/166 "2014-04-14T15:06:49Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > The point is that motor vehicles have a lot more mass. If two cars bump, it’s not life-threatening. If a pedestrian or bicyclist is hit by a motor vehicle, it’s a lot more serious. Once I was _walking_ my bike across an intersection, with the “walk” sign lit, and someone turning right nearly ran me over. She then slowed down to yell obscenities at me, after nearly killing me. My theory is that being in a car turns people into assholes. Either that, to assholes feel freer to be assholes when they’re in a car. One or the other. Edited to add: in my city, at least, cyclists have the right to ride in the center of the lane if there’s no bike lane. Anyway, there are signs posted on the road that say so. ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/167 "2014-04-14T15:07:48Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > The point is that motor vehicles have a lot more mass. If two cars bump, it’s not life-threatening. If a pedestrian or bicyclist is hit by a motor vehicle, it’s a lot more serious. A car running a red light carries a lot more momentum than a bike and will inflict a lot more damage. How in the world can you conclude that two cars bumping isn’t life threatening given the number of fatalities every year from automobile accidents? I’d much rather get hit by a bike than a car. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/168 "2014-04-14T15:15:25Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > The point is that motor vehicles have a lot more mass. If two cars bump, it’s not life-threatening. If a pedestrian or bicyclist is hit by a motor vehicle, it’s a lot more serious. Then maybe cars should be more careful. Also, you are wrong. Intersection collisions cause a [huge number of injuries and deaths](http://www.saferoads.org/intersection-safety) ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/169 "2014-04-14T15:21:07Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Then maybe cars should be more careful. > > Also, you are wrong. Intersection collisions cause a [huge number of injuries and deaths](http://www.saferoads.org/intersection-safety) Low-speed collisions are rarely fatal. Jay-walking is a lot more dangerous. I am careful, but after all I am the on the road legally. It is the pedestrian’s obligation to cross the road responsibly. ---
**Author:** ![UTejas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UTejas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UTejas)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/170 "2014-04-14T15:31:56Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > Low-speed collisions are rarely fatal. Jay-walking is a lot more dangerous. I am careful, but after all I am the on the road legally. It is the pedestrian’s obligation to cross the road responsibly. You’re correct with respect to jaywalking. Note that we were talking about a case where the pedestrian was in a crosswalk legally, which means that any drivers would have to yield the right of way. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/171 "2014-04-14T15:41:36Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > Low-speed collisions are rarely fatal. How ‘low speed’ are you talking? Because I’ve been hit as a pedestrian by cars going through red lights at low speed. While not fatal it hurt a lot and could have been much worse. ‘Low speed’ at an urban intersection can still be up to 35 mph. > [@](#): > > Jay-walking is a lot more dangerous. I am careful, but after all I am the on the road legally. It is the pedestrian’s obligation to cross the road responsibly. While true, that doesn’t mean anything - and the fact that you uplay irresponsible cyclists and pedestrians while downplaying irresponsible drivers speaks volumes. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/172 "2014-04-14T15:57:29Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > The point is that motor vehicles have a lot more mass. If two cars bump, it’s not life-threatening. If a pedestrian or bicyclist is hit by a motor vehicle, it’s a lot more serious. True, but if two pedestrians bump, there’s almost never an issue. How about when a cyclist pedaling at 30MPH hits a small kid, on the sidewalk? ---
**Author:** ![UTejas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UTejas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UTejas)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/173 "2014-04-14T16:00:00Z")
It’s absurd that in this thread we have people arguing that bikes don’t belong on the road because they never follow the law paired with people arguing that bikes don’t belong on the road because cars never follow the law and that makes it unsafe for bikes. Lets all just agree that nearly 100% of drivers do not strictly follow the speed limit but are usually good at stopping at stop signs/red lights. Similarly, there’s a large portion, probably a majority, of cyclists who do not come to a full and complete stop at stop signs (and the ones who don’t even try are a serious menace) but are much better about obeying other traffic laws. Pedestrians frequently jaywalk or aren’t attentive when crossing legally. Why is it that only drivers get a free pass, especially since they’re the ones in the vehicles that have the most potential for causing damage? ---
**Author:** ![UTejas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UTejas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UTejas)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/174 "2014-04-14T16:01:16Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > True, but if two pedestrians bump, there’s almost never an issue. How about when a cyclist pedaling at 30MPH hits a small kid, on the sidewalk? That would cause a lot of damage, which is part of the reason why bikes generally aren’t allowed on sidewalks. Also, 30 mph on a sidewalk is essentially impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/175 "2014-04-14T16:07:38Z")
> [@mr. Miskatonic](#): > > how ‘low speed’ are you talking? Because i’ve been hit as a pedestrian by cars going through red lights at low speed. While not fatal it hurt a lot and could have been much worse. > > ‘low speed’ at an urban intersection can still be up to 35 mph. > > While true, that doesn’t mean anything - and the fact that you uplay irresponsible cyclists and pedestrians while downplaying irresponsible drivers speaks volumes. low speed collisions between cars!!! are you rally that dense? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/176 "2014-04-14T16:09:05Z")
> [@UTejas](#): > > Lets all just agree that nearly 100% of drivers do not strictly follow the speed limit but are usually good at stopping at stop signs/red lights. Similarly, there’s a large portion, probably a majority, of cyclists who do not come to a full and complete stop at stop signs (and the ones who don’t even try are a serious menace) but are much better about obeying other traffic laws. Pedestrians frequently jaywalk or aren’t attentive when crossing legally. Why is it that only drivers get a free pass, especially since they’re the ones in the vehicles that have the most potential for causing damage? Arguments about cyclists and drivers on the roads usually end up this way, but the problem happening at present is that we have someone complaining about a cyclist who is riding legally but may have slowed said driver down for a few seconds. He wished death upon that cyclist for such an offense. It is typical of far too many drivers to have this attitude - something that isn’t another car or truck gets in my way = it deserves to die. Said drivers then turn around and wonder why some cyclists break the laws. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/177 "2014-04-14T16:10:39Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Arguments about cyclists and drivers on the roads usually end up this way, but the problem happening at present is that we have someone complaining about a cyclist who is riding legally but may have slowed said driver down for a few seconds. He wished death upon that cyclist for such an offense. > > It is typical of far too many drivers to have this attitude - something that isn’t another car or truck gets in my way = it deserves to die. Said drivers then turn around and wonder why some cyclists break the laws. Roads are for cars!! If I wanted to go slow I would have walked! I’m driving a car because I want to go faster than 2 miles an hour! ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/178 "2014-04-14T16:12:08Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > low speed collisions between cars!!! are you rally that dense? What do you consider “low speed”? Because the discussion was about pedestrians or cyclists running red lights - which implies intersections. Intersections where over 7,000 fatalities and 733,000 injuries happened - and it was not all to pedestrians. I don’t think I am the dense one here. I think you are deliberately ignoring driver issues to take swipes at pedestrians and cyclists. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/179 "2014-04-14T16:13:32Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > Roads are for cars!! Roads are for vehicles. That includes trucks, motorcycles, the occasional tractor and yes bicycles, which are considered vehicles in every state in the union. > [@](#): > > If I wanted to go slow I would have walked! I’m driving a car because I want to go faster than 2 miles an hour! Then get on a freeway where no bikes are allowed. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732/180 "2014-04-14T16:15:56Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > What do you consider “low speed”? Because the discussion was about pedestrians or cyclists running red lights - which implies intersections. Intersections where over 7,000 fatalities and 733,000 injuries happened - and it was not all to pedestrians. > > I don’t think I am the dense one here. I think you are deliberately ignoring driver issues to take swipes at pedestrians and cyclists. No, what I am saying is that if you are a pedestrian or bicyclist and don’t obey the law and get hit by a motorcar, even at low speed, you are going to take the brunt of the damage, whereas people in cars colliding at 10mph are not likely to get hurt. Is this so difficult to understand? I am both a pedestrian and a driver. I walk all the time and see idiots running and walking and jaywalking. I do not object when bikes are on the sidewalk, because the road (5th avenue) is so busy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-evil-bastards/685732.md?page=10)