# Cyclists who deliberately ride on dangerous roads **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 11, 2009, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-who-deliberately-ride-on-dangerous-roads/485436 "2009-02-11T22:14:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![cowgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cowgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cowgirl)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-who-deliberately-ride-on-dangerous-roads/485436/41 "2009-02-12T16:47:18Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Cars on several roads around me have slowed me down tons of times or kept me from going at a decent pace due to their poor driving skills or the limitations of their vehicles. This quite effectively describes my morning commute. The same trip takes nearly half the time if I do it in the evening when there are significantly fewer cars on the road. It surprises me that more drivers don’t share this experience and agree that > [@](#): > > it is a reasonable opinion that cars should be removed from those roads. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-who-deliberately-ride-on-dangerous-roads/485436/42 "2009-02-12T18:21:17Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Oh, yeah, and if you’re plotting a route that you’re not familiar with, you pick small roads and keep off the major ones. The cyclist might not have any idea about the traffic volume to expect. Oh, pet peeve! We have a road map that is _specifically_ for long-distance road cycling. It includes symbols to tell you the nature of the traffic that you can expect along the various stretches. For example a road with a designated bike lane might end on Main Street and suddenly traffic is much heavier and that sucks, but at least you know what to expect as you get to the town. Fine. But it’s a real pisser when you’re following the mapped route and suddenly the road turns to shit. We were going along a nice wide road, with a big paved shoulder, then we had to turn left onto a terrible road that had no shoulder and that led to a popular cottage country destination so city folks were driving well over the speed limit. We went several miles out of our way to see if the next road was any better (it wasn’t). If we’d known we wouldn’t have chosen that route. And usually what happens is you optimistically think, well it’s probably only shitty for a few hundred feet, right? The map wouldn’t recommend this road if it was shitty the whole way, right? :rolleyes: Another time we ended up cranking to the top of a very long hill on our road bikes and about a third of the way from the top, the road turned to _gravel_. No mention of this on our “detailed” cycling map. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-who-deliberately-ride-on-dangerous-roads/485436/43 "2009-02-12T18:26:53Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Cars on several roads around me have slowed me down tons of times or kept me from going at a decent pace due to their poor driving skills or the limitations of their vehicles. By your standards, it is a reasonable opinion that cars should be removed from those roads. No. The cars have the potential to go traffic spead. When other vehicles can’t, they shouldn’t be on the road. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-who-deliberately-ride-on-dangerous-roads/485436/44 "2009-02-12T18:34:03Z")
> [@BlinkingDuck](#): > > No. The cars have the potential to go traffic spead. When other vehicles can’t, they shouldn’t be on the road. So you think tractors etc shouldn’t be on the road either? I can see the argument when you’re talking about highways etc (here in the Netherlands tractors, bicycles etc aren’t allowed on highways - where highways is basically every road with a speed limit over 62 miles/hour). It doesn’t work when you’re talking about general roads, since it would mean you won’t be able to get anywhere at all in anything but a car. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-who-deliberately-ride-on-dangerous-roads/485436/45 "2009-02-12T18:41:54Z")
> [@BlinkingDuck](#): > > No. The cars have the potential to go traffic spead. When other vehicles can’t, they shouldn’t be on the road. The Mennonites and Mounties here in Canada might have a beef about that. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-who-deliberately-ride-on-dangerous-roads/485436/46 "2009-02-12T18:44:38Z")
> [@BlinkingDuck](#): > > The cars have the potential to go traffic spead. When other vehicles can’t, they shouldn’t be on the road. Those “other vehicles” are also traffic. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-who-deliberately-ride-on-dangerous-roads/485436/47 "2009-02-12T18:49:37Z")
> [@Hunter\_Hawk](#): > > GQ-ish question (I’m not trying to make a point; I’m actually curious about this): It’s pretty standard for there to be laws prohibiting motor vehicles from holding up too much traffic. Are there analogous regulations that apply to bicycles? I can’t cite chapter and verse, but I was taught that a car holding up 5 vehicles should pull over and let them pass (California). Assuming for a moment that this is correct, the same rule would apply to a cyclist. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-who-deliberately-ride-on-dangerous-roads/485436/48 "2009-02-12T19:11:13Z")
> [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](#): > > So you think tractors etc shouldn’t be on the road either? I can see the argument when you’re talking about highways etc (here in the Netherlands tractors, bicycles etc aren’t allowed on highways - where highways is basically every road with a speed limit over 62 miles/hour). It doesn’t work when you’re talking about general roads, since it would mean you won’t be able to get anywhere at all in anything but a car. I think part of the problem here and in other threads is that we are talking past each other. When I am thinking of these bikes I am thinking of a 55 mph road where traffic is whizzing along and some asshole biker comes along taking a lane and going 20 mph. However, I think everyone thinks of slow, creeping downtown traffic when they read what I say. I’ve already said in other threads that if it is like downtown area where traffic normally is going 15 mph then the bike should take a lane. I would have no beef with that because I would prefer they be on a bike than in another car. If you are telling me that it is perfectly ok for bikes to take up a lane or lanes of a highway with traffic bunching up behind them for miles then, you sir, are an asshole if you do this and you deserve to be dusted. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-who-deliberately-ride-on-dangerous-roads/485436/49 "2009-02-12T19:14:30Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Because the cyclist is making the choice of a route where 99+% of the traffic is cars going 45mph on a twisty, narrow road. Cars don’t do 45mph on twisty narrow roads. If they’re going that speed then the road can’t be very twisty, either that or they’re complete morons. That’s not to say that the speed limit might not be 45mph. The problem with all these discussions is that the OP is pitting a relatively limited group based on a specific instance, and everyone else is arguing a general position based on their own experiences which aren’t necessarily relevant to the OPs situation. Personally I’ve never held up a car while on my bike for more than a few seconds (I’ve made a car slow down prior to passing me, but they’ve never had to sit behind me.) I’ve also never been held up by a bicycle. I actually find that very slow vehicles, tractors and the like included, are much easier to pass than slightly slow vehicles because you need very little longitudinal space to pass them. I’ve had much more trouble getting stuck behind a car that’s going 5 mph slower than me than getting stuck behind bicycles, tractors, graders, etc. Ultimately car drivers need to be alert, drive to the road conditions, don’t assume anything, and proactively look for unusual traffic such as bicycles, motorbikes, pedestrians, etc. For their part cyclists should assume they’re invisible and ride accordingly. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-who-deliberately-ride-on-dangerous-roads/485436/50 "2009-02-12T19:14:37Z")
> [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](#): > > So you think tractors etc shouldn’t be on the road either? I can see the argument when you’re talking about highways etc (here in the Netherlands tractors, bicycles etc aren’t allowed on highways - where highways is basically every road with a speed limit over 62 miles/hour). It doesn’t work when you’re talking about general roads, since it would mean you won’t be able to get anywhere at all in anything but a car. Tractors are not a problem during metro traffic that I have seen in the past 20 years. I’ve lived in rural areas…traffic is not a problem. I just go around the tractor. ---
**Author:** ![Jayn\_Newell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Jayn\_Newell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jayn_Newell)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-who-deliberately-ride-on-dangerous-roads/485436/51 "2009-02-12T19:42:22Z")
[quote=“1920s Style “Death Ray”, post:49, topic:485436”] Cars don’t do 45mph on twisty narrow roads. If they’re going that speed then the road can’t be very twisty, either that or they’re complete morons. That’s not to say that the speed limit might not be 45mph. [/QUOTE] Myself, I see the issue less one of danger to the cyclist and more one of holding up traffic. On that sort of road there aren’t many opportunities to pass a slow-moving vehicle safely. Even when traffic is low it’s chancy. OT question for bikers–is it normal to have a bike lane down the middle of a one-way street? There’s a two-lane road downtown with parking on both sides and a bike lane down the middle. I’ve never seen a biker using it, but a driver can’t change lanes without crossing the bike path. It’s never struck me as a particularly good arrangement. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-who-deliberately-ride-on-dangerous-roads/485436/52 "2009-02-12T19:43:26Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > Most drivers take extraordinary pains to pass me with enough clearance. There’s an occasional idiot who passes with less than 1 ft to spare, but I’ve never actually had to make evasive maneuvers. There are occasional drivers who fail to notice a cyclist, but the cyclist can do something about that (I use a 200-lumen flashing light at all times, for example). Just wanted to make the point, if I may be excused for gratuitous niceness in the Pit, that this has been my personal experience too. In about 30 years of local and long-distance bicycling activity, as far as I can tell, there’s never been a driver who’s deliberately endangered me or even expressed hostility towards me (I think we XX-type cyclists get a bit better treatment in that regard than the XY ones). Most of them have gone out of their way to make sure they could drive around me safely. Of course, I do my part too, always riding as much to the right as I safely can, obeying traffic laws, trying to use routes with lower traffic and better room, being properly visible, etc. So I don’t think I’m inconveniencing drivers too grievously. Still, I appreciate their caution and courtesy towards me, and I’d like to thank them for that. (Oh, and that family in a station wagon who cheered me up a steep hill in the rain on my way back north along the Hudson last summer and stopped at the top to split their kids’ PowerBar stash with me? Mwah mwah mwah smoochy smooch I love you.) ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-who-deliberately-ride-on-dangerous-roads/485436/53 "2009-02-12T19:45:32Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > He did have every right to be there… Just as I have every right to dress up in my finest business attire and stroll through the bad part of town whistling and counting my bankroll of bills, it is still stupid, risky, and dangerous and I only have myself to blame if the increased risks materialize into genuine harm when I could easily have chosen another path to minimize my risks. Same thing for cyclists on an obviously dangerous road. I cycle regularly, and plan my routes to avoid dangerous roads. There is a twisty, hilly, blind-corner, no shoulder road near my house that I do not ride on, yet it is incredibly popular with Tour-De-Roadkill wannabes in “Team Microsoft” jerseys biking up and down it at all hours. I’m a cyclist, but these guys are idiots and their risk of ending up wrapped around someone’s bumper is easily avoided no matter how much they whine and cry about road rights equality. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-who-deliberately-ride-on-dangerous-roads/485436/54 "2009-02-12T19:53:44Z")
> [@BlinkingDuck](#): > > No. The cars have the potential to go traffic spead. When other vehicles can’t, they shouldn’t be on the road. So its all about ‘potential’, then? Not actual speed obtained? Seems like a slippery standard designed to convenience you. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-who-deliberately-ride-on-dangerous-roads/485436/55 "2009-02-12T19:54:18Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > So its all about ‘potential’, then? Not actual speed obtained? Seems like a slippery standard designed to convenience you. No..it’s just not ‘personal’. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-who-deliberately-ride-on-dangerous-roads/485436/56 "2009-02-12T20:00:11Z")
> [@BlinkingDuck](#): > > No..it’s just not ‘personal’. Its just only applied by you when it conveniences the driver. Gotcha. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-who-deliberately-ride-on-dangerous-roads/485436/57 "2009-02-12T20:04:33Z")
> [@GargoyleWB](#): > > Just as I have every right to dress up in my finest business attire and stroll through the bad part of town whistling and counting my bankroll of bills, it is still stupid, risky, and dangerous and I only have myself to blame if the increased risks materialize into genuine harm when I could easily have chosen another path to minimize my risks. I’d like to think that our nation’s roads are not zones of lawlessness and disorder. As many awkward encounters as I may have had with careless drivers I’d still like to think it was mostly unintentional (barring the couple of cases where it obviously wasn’t) and not the antics of criminals. I would wager that if you were to compare your walking through a bad neighborhood scenario vs. riding on a road as described in the OP your survivability would be much, much greater with the latter. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-who-deliberately-ride-on-dangerous-roads/485436/58 "2009-02-12T20:06:23Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Its just only applied by you when it conveniences the driver. Gotcha. If the time comes where cars routinely bunch up bikes behind them because they cannot keep up for the bikes…then the car driver can pound sand and get off the road. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-who-deliberately-ride-on-dangerous-roads/485436/59 "2009-02-12T20:10:03Z")
> [@BlinkingDuck](#): > > If the time comes where cars routinely bunch up bikes behind them because they cannot keep up for the bikes…then the car driver can pound sand and get off the road. So why don’t they get off the roads I use? They sure as heck slow me down no matter what their ‘potential’ speeds might be. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-who-deliberately-ride-on-dangerous-roads/485436/60 "2009-02-12T20:13:40Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > So why don’t they get off the roads I use? They sure as heck slow me down no matter what their ‘potential’ speeds might be. Because it is not a common sight. You are probably unique in your delusion er situation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-who-deliberately-ride-on-dangerous-roads/485436.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-who-deliberately-ride-on-dangerous-roads/485436.md?page=4)