# Cyclists who deliberately ride on dangerous roads **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 11, 2009, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-who-deliberately-ride-on-dangerous-roads/485436 "2009-02-11T22:14:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-who-deliberately-ride-on-dangerous-roads/485436/81 "2009-02-12T22:29:03Z")
> [@BlinkingDuck](#): > > I think it can be dealt with. Minimum speed limits say 10mph less than actual speed limit (baring weather, heavy traffic and the like). If you can’t do it, get off the road (say bike confiscated, $1000 fine if a cop pulls you over going under the minimum speed limit with a line of cars behind you. Second offense, jail time - Third offense street execution 😉 ) You sure seem to have a lot of ideas that punish bike riders. Then you turn around and say ‘its not personal’. I doubt that strongly. Especially given your previously errors on the other thread about bikes having no right to the road since they don’t pay for it. This is sure as heck looking mighty personal. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-who-deliberately-ride-on-dangerous-roads/485436/82 "2009-02-12T22:31:11Z")
> [@BlinkingDuck](#): > > I think it can be dealt with. Minimum speed limits say 10mph less than actual speed limit (baring weather, heavy traffic and the like). Once again you are claiming that heavy car traffic is an acceptable reason for slow traffic, but someone’s a choice to use a bicycle is not. Why is that? ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-who-deliberately-ride-on-dangerous-roads/485436/83 "2009-02-12T22:32:27Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > You sure seem to have a lot of ideas that punish bike riders. Then you turn around and say ‘its not personal’. I doubt that strongly. Especially given your previously errors on the other thread about bikes having no right to the road since they don’t pay for it. > > This is sure as heck looking mighty personal. Well, YOU might take it personal…but to me it’s not because I all bikes should be treated the same. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-who-deliberately-ride-on-dangerous-roads/485436/84 "2009-02-12T22:35:45Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > Once again you are claiming that heavy car traffic is an acceptable reason for slow traffic, but someone’s a choice to use a bicycle is not. Why is that? Because you cannot identify the specific cause of heavy traffic (usually)…however if a bikes are going 20mph on a highway with a line of cars behind him for miles then throwing them off the road sure speeds things up. In short…if you are in any vehicle, noone is in front of you but you have a line of vehicles behind you…you are an asshole. If you are riding a bike while this is happening, then you should be banned from the road because you CANNOT, no matter how competent NOT have a line behind you. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-who-deliberately-ride-on-dangerous-roads/485436/85 "2009-02-12T22:35:45Z")
> [@BlinkingDuck](#): > > Well, YOU might take it personal…but to me it’s not because I all bikes should be treated the same. 😉 Oh, please do understand when I say ‘its personal’ I mean in the sense that you are an irrational cyclist-hating bigot and not hating me personally. Also understand that when I say ‘its personal’ with you I mean that you are full of irrational hatreds and not the traffic-solver you think you are. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-who-deliberately-ride-on-dangerous-roads/485436/86 "2009-02-12T22:37:27Z")
> [@BlinkingDuck](#): > > Because you cannot identify the specific cause of heavy traffic (usually) Cars. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-who-deliberately-ride-on-dangerous-roads/485436/87 "2009-02-12T22:49:41Z")
> [@BlinkingDuck](#): > > Because you cannot identify the specific cause of heavy traffic (usually)…however if a bikes are going 20mph on a highway with a line of cars behind him for miles then throwing them off the road sure speeds things up. How about if there are dozens of bikes ahead of me, so it’s not just my bike? Going by this principle, perhaps Critical Mass rides aren’t such a bad idea after all… (Though in all honesty, the only time I have more than a couple of cars behind me is when the car driver right behind me is so cautious - or so timid - that he/she wouldn’t pass me even when there’s a clear stretch of road with good visibility, with no oncoming traffic, and I get as far to the right as possible. And there’s no shoulder, side street or driveway where I can get completely off the road.) ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-who-deliberately-ride-on-dangerous-roads/485436/88 "2009-02-12T22:56:30Z")
> [@BlinkingDuck](#): > > If you are riding a bike while this is happening, then you should be banned from the road because you CANNOT, no matter how competent NOT have a line behind you. I can pass bikes easily on basically any road, no matter how busy. I ride a bike, see? If it’s impossible to pass a bike, then that’s not because there’s a bike, it’s because there’s way too many cars on the road. I don’t even own a car. I go everywhere by bike and/or train. Your argument that I should just stay home since I can’t possibly be allowed to use the roads I also pay for is bloody disgusting. Yes there are good reasons to restrict access to certain roads. 60+ mph roads are too fucking dangerous for bikes. Everywhere else, suck it up and deal with it. I’ll move out of the way if it’s possible. Get the road widened if you feel it’s necessary. Until then, you wait till you can get past me safely, you arrogant asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-who-deliberately-ride-on-dangerous-roads/485436/89 "2009-02-12T23:03:54Z")
> [@BlinkingDuck](#): > > however if a bikes are going 20mph on a highway with a line of cars behind him for miles How often does this really happen, though? For one thing, if you’re really talking about a “highway”, then either it’s a limited-access road where the bike has no legal right to be in the first place, or it’s a multi-lane road with wide shoulders where there’s plenty of room for cars to get past the bikes. In my own experience, I’ve **never** backed up a line of cars stuck behind me for miles, even on narrow or busy roads. At worst, the cars have to slow down a bit to pass me safely, which I make as easy as possible for them by riding as far right as I safely can. I have never seen a miles-long line of cars stuck behind any other bike(s) either, except perhaps during a bike race or other major ride event involving closed roads and cops redirecting car traffic. If many drivers are often forced to chug along at 20 mph or less for miles on end because they’re stuck behind a bicycle, then yes, that’s a serious traffic flow problem that needs to be addressed. But if drivers are sometimes forced to slow down briefly to pass a bicycle, or to drive a little slower than the speed limit on a twisty road for fear of rear-ending a bicycle around a blind corner, then no, that’s not a serious traffic flow problem. That’s just making a necessary accomodation to the needs of varied groups of road users. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-who-deliberately-ride-on-dangerous-roads/485436/90 "2009-02-12T23:07:22Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > (Though in all honesty, the only time I have more than a couple of cars behind me is when the car driver right behind me is so cautious - or so timid - that he/she wouldn’t pass me even when there’s a clear stretch of road with good visibility, with no oncoming traffic, and I get as far to the right as possible. And there’s no shoulder, side street or driveway where I can get completely off the road.) Yeah, I often have to wonder about this. It seems like the denizens of The Pit have an infinite supply of winding, twisty, single-lane-no-shoulder, 45 mph roads with cyclists constantly on them with the sole intent of slowing down drivers. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-who-deliberately-ride-on-dangerous-roads/485436/91 "2009-02-12T23:21:16Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Yeah, I often have to wonder about this. It seems like the denizens of The Pit have an infinite supply of winding, twisty, single-lane-no-shoulder, 45 mph roads with cyclists constantly on them with the sole intent of slowing down drivers. I imagine it looks like this in their heads: You are on a winding, twisty, single-lane-no-shoulder, 45 mph road. There is an exit left. There is a bicycle in front of you. \> forward There is a bicycle in front of you. \> forward There is a bicycle in front of you. \> forward There is a bicycle in front of you. \> left You go left. You are on a winding, twisty, single-lane-no-shoulder, 45 mph road. There is a bicycle in front of you. \> forward There is a bicycle in front of you. \> back There is a bicycle behind you. \> honk There is a bicycle behind you. There is a bicycle in front of you. ---
**Author:** ![Jayn\_Newell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Jayn\_Newell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jayn_Newell)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-who-deliberately-ride-on-dangerous-roads/485436/92 "2009-02-12T23:30:30Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > How often does this really happen, though? For one thing, if you’re really talking about a “highway”, then either it’s a limited-access road where the bike has no legal right to be in the first place, or it’s a multi-lane road with wide shoulders where there’s plenty of room for cars to get past the bikes. I doubt this is what **Blinking** meant, but the road on which I grew up was named “Highway 3”. That didn’t stop it from being narrow and twisty, with few safe passing zones. (It wasn’t really a highway in the sense we would use the term, but that’s still what it was called). **Superfluous Parentheses** , that’s hilarious 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-who-deliberately-ride-on-dangerous-roads/485436/93 "2009-02-13T00:35:38Z")
**Superfluous Parentheses** wins the thread. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-who-deliberately-ride-on-dangerous-roads/485436/94 "2009-02-14T15:18:35Z")
> [@BlinkingDuck](#): > > I think part of the problem here and in other threads is that we are talking past each other. When I am thinking of these bikes I am thinking of a 55 mph road where traffic is whizzing along and some asshole biker comes along taking a lane and going 20 mph. Hey stop calling me an asshole you diesel fume sucking fuckstick. Last fall my auto died. Threw a piston. It lived a long life for an auto. Almost as old as me. It was bike or walk. Did I mention I live several miles out in the country? Cause I do. Biking got me to work and back just fine for a month and a half while I saved up. I averaged 25 miles of biking a day. Saved up enough for a car for the winter (you can’t bike on snow safety). You telling me you expected me to walk 25 miles a day and hold down a full time job? Biking also got me to college (30 mile round trip) on a few occasions last summer when gas prices were huge and I ran short on gas money, and when the weather warms up it’ll do the same just for fun and exercise. Meanwhile my pulse went from 130 bpm to 88 bpm and dropping, and my blood pressure is great. tl;dr: Biking got me back on my feet, and made me healthier You ever think maybe you’re the asshole here? Please tell me what I should have done instead of biking. ---
**Author:** ![Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boo_Boo_Foo)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-who-deliberately-ride-on-dangerous-roads/485436/95 "2013-09-18T08:17:34Z")
> [@MissIntent](#): > > \ > > I was on the first road yesterday and it was only because I was going rather slow that I saw the bicyclist in the middle of the lane before I was on top of them. Aaaarg don’t ride there you’re going to get yourself killed!!! > > I don’t mind sharing the road… but bicycles are not cars. They are not as visible, as fast nor as safe as cars. Pick a safer route! But it was legal for him to be there, was it not? It’s not like he was riding on a freeway where the signs are clearly saying it’s illegal for bike use. Sounds to me like someone doesn’t know how to share a bit of road infrastructure which is clearly shared user space. By your own admission, the stretch of road in question has no shoulder, hence the safest place in all the world for that rider to be, on that stretch of road, was right in the middle of a lane to prevent you from squeezing past at 45mph with just an inch or two clearance. But that probably never occurred to you, did it? You want to be able to drive right up to the speed limit, everywhere you go, don’t you? Because… let me guess… you think your time is more important? ---
**Author:** ![madrabbitwoman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c37758/32.png) [@madrabbitwoman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madrabbitwoman)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-who-deliberately-ride-on-dangerous-roads/485436/96 "2013-09-18T08:56:25Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Just wanted to make the point, if I may be excused for gratuitous niceness in the Pit, that this has been my personal experience too. In about 30 years of local and long-distance bicycling activity, as far as I can tell, there’s never been a driver who’s deliberately endangered me or even expressed hostility towards me (I think we XX-type cyclists get a bit better treatment in that regard than the XY ones). Most of them have gone out of their way to make sure they could drive around me safely. > > Of course, I do my part too, always riding as much to the right as I safely can, obeying traffic laws, trying to use routes with lower traffic and better room, being properly visible, etc. So I don’t think I’m inconveniencing drivers too grievously. Still, I appreciate their caution and courtesy towards me, and I’d like to thank them for that. > > (Oh, and that family in a station wagon who cheered me up a steep hill in the rain on my way back north along the Hudson last summer and stopped at the top to split their kids’ PowerBar stash with me? Mwah mwah mwah smoochy smooch I love you.) They should have put _eye of the tiger_ on and cranked up the volume ---
**Author:** ![VunderBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/839c29/32.png) [@VunderBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VunderBob)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-who-deliberately-ride-on-dangerous-roads/485436/97 "2013-09-18T10:26:12Z")
Zombie cyclists are the worst. ---
**Author:** ![madrabbitwoman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c37758/32.png) [@madrabbitwoman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madrabbitwoman)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-who-deliberately-ride-on-dangerous-roads/485436/98 "2013-09-18T11:01:55Z")
:smack:dammit to hell again:smack: ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-who-deliberately-ride-on-dangerous-roads/485436/99 "2013-09-19T13:17:32Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > How often does this really happen, though? For one thing, if you’re really talking about a “highway”, then either it’s a limited-access road where the bike has no legal right to be in the first place, or it’s a multi-lane road with wide shoulders where there’s plenty of room for cars to get past the bikes. Let me give a UK perspective where our roads are narrow and can be just as…if not more…crowded. This is never a problem. Even here in the UK I’ve never seen or experienced a major traffic hold-up due to cyclists. They may provide a momentary annoyance (I say this as someone who cycles and drives to work) but never a major hold-up. To claim that cyclist should use the roads that their taxes pay for is…ludicrous. They should be encouraged, more bikes = less cars = easy journeys for the remaining motorists Mind you, I have see major hold-ups due to heavy-goods vehicles, tractors, caravans etc, etc. because, “very slow and easy to pass” is less of a problem than “only slightly slower and impossible to pass”. The overtaking window you need to pass a bike is a couple of seconds and is not a problem for even a moderately competent driver. ETA - bugger, zombie thread - can’t we colour-code these or something? ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-who-deliberately-ride-on-dangerous-roads/485436/100 "2013-09-19T13:22:07Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > ETA - bugger, zombie thread - can’t we colour-code these or something? Maybe put the post date in each post, so you can read the timeline as you read the thread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-who-deliberately-ride-on-dangerous-roads/485436.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cyclists-who-deliberately-ride-on-dangerous-roads/485436.md?page=6)