# D.B.Cooper - Case closed? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 13, 2016, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-b-cooper-case-closed/759802 "2016-07-13T11:35:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2024, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-b-cooper-case-closed/759802/181 "2024-11-30T18:58:58Z")
I’m not sure but I don’t think so. Cooper was careful to collect back the notes he gave to the flight crew so he probably took the bag too. But he left a clip-on necktie behind, so the mystery deepens. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2024, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-b-cooper-case-closed/759802/182 "2024-11-30T19:20:45Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > Most of the area south is built up area, so very likely any body would have been found by now. Portland, and directly south, is built up, but you don’t have to be very far east or west for it to be pretty rural. It would be interesting to see the flight track for where else Cooper might have jumped. > [@Leo\_Krupe](#): > > So many things just don’t add up – Cooper was specific about the wing flaps being at 15 degrees, but he must’ve known flying at no more than 10,000 feet with the landing gear down would’ve meant they couldn’t make Mexico City. What was his thought process? Maybe he knew that that configuration would slow the plane enough to make jumping safe, but hadn’t realized it would limit the plane’s range. Since it seems he always planned to jump out, the course to Mexico City may have been chosen because it would overfly the site where Cooper wanted to land. > [@Odesio](#): > > How long was Cooper standing in the open air while exposed to the elements while going a minimum of 115 miles per hour? He wasn’t exactly dressed for the weather on the ground let alone at altitude. It seems unlikely Cooper would have been able to stand at the back of the plane exposed to the elements for very long. The aft door and stairway face backwards, so I don’t know how much cold air they would have allowed into the plane. Cooper could have gone into the lavatory to stay warm. ---
**Author:** ![Zyada](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zyada/32/3028_2.png) [@Zyada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyada)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2024, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-b-cooper-case-closed/759802/183 "2024-11-30T20:22:57Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > I mean it’s _possible_ that Cooper died in November 1971. He could have been a drifter without family, friends, or acquaintances I don’t think he had to be that untethered. If I were to disappear, my brother and SIL would notice, and work, and then the companies that bill me regularly. If he didn’t have family, lived in an apartment and had recently been fired, his disappearance was more likely to be unnoticed. I suspect a lot of apartment complexes have tenants disappear in the night. Also, the clip on tie suggests that he didn’t wear a suit very often, if at all, so he might not normally have looked enough like the sketches to be identifiable by acquaintances. I’m in the “he died in the fall” contingent. I went to school in the piney woods of East Texas, and I wouldn’t be surprised to find that more than a few skeletons are hidden there ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2024, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-b-cooper-case-closed/759802/184 "2024-11-30T20:56:53Z")
I created a poll about Coopers fate in MPSIMS > [@Polls only: No discussion](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polls-only-no-discussion/953642/5562): > > Inspired by a discussion in FQ of the Dan (DB) Cooper hijacking case, what do you think happened? [poll](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polls-only-no-discussion/953642/5562) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2024, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-b-cooper-case-closed/759802/185 "2024-11-30T21:02:52Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > That same cite goes into some detail and makes no mention of _scanning the serial number of every or any bill that they take in_. They record all the numbers to make sure the bills are really destroyed. And if stolen between shipment and destruction. [record keeping - Do central banks really dispose of old currency the way it's shown in movies? - Personal Finance & Money Stack Exchange](https://money.stackexchange.com/questions/139331/do-central-banks-really-dispose-of-old-currency-the-way-its-shown-in-movies#:~:text=They%20dont%20remove%20them%20from,marked%20as%20Destroyed%20or%20Terminated). They dont remove them from the bills, but as the bills are created, their serial numbers are recorded in a system to keep track of those in circulation, **once those bills are destroyed, they are removed from the system or marked as Destroyed or Terminated**. per AI **AI Overview** [Learn more](https://support.google.com/websearch?p=ai_overviews&hl=en) _Yes, when the US Mint destroys old bills, the serial numbers are typically recorded and tracked by the Federal Reserve Banks, which are responsible for managing the currency in circulation; this helps to ensure accountability and prevent any potential misuse of destroyed currency._ Also this [https://www.quora.com/Do-banks-keep-a-record-of-the-serial-numbers-of-the-notes-they-have#:~:text=The%20central%20bank%20records%20the,they%20are%20sent%20for%20destruction](https://www.quora.com/Do-banks-keep-a-record-of-the-serial-numbers-of-the-notes-they-have#:~:text=The%20central%20bank%20records%20the,they%20are%20sent%20for%20destruction). **The central bank records the serial numbers on the notes when they are sent for destruction.** ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2024, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-b-cooper-case-closed/759802/186 "2024-12-01T00:07:43Z")
DrDeth: All of your citations link to Joe Blow on the internet. None of them are authorities. I am dubious of the claim that the Fed maintains a comprehensive database of destroyed serial numbers. After all, [in 2009 6 billion bills were destroyed](https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/04/the-destruction-of-money-who-does-it-why-when-and-how/236990/). That’s a manageable dataset today: it would not have been during the 1970s or even the 1980s. I say that _if_ the Fed tracked serial numbers then there would be an example somewhere of a bank robber or hostage taker captured because of their funds were traced back to them when the Fed IDd them. Where are the news articles? For that matter, why isn’t this claim in any of the fairly numerous articles on the subject? [For example](https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/04/the-destruction-of-money-who-does-it-why-when-and-how/236990/): > So how does the Fed know if a bill is fit for commerce? It processes currency submitted to its Federal Reserve banks by the public to check for fitness. The cash offices uses a sophisticated high-speed sorting machine called the “Banknote processing system 3000,” manufactured by German firm [Giesecke & Devrient](https://www.gi-de.com/en/index.jsp). The BPS 3000 has sophisticated sensors that check bills for authenticity and defects like graffiti, dog ears, tears, excessive soiling, and limpness. If a bill is counterfeit, it is sent to the Secret Service. But if it’s merely unfit by the Fed’s standards, then the machine shreds it. Those shredded notes are sent to landfills or packaged and provided as souvenirs to the public on Federal Reserve Bank tours. No mention of recording serial numbers. If the BPS 3000 had that sort of feature, it would be reported I would think. But we’re here to fight ignorance, and I found some evidence backing your contention. It turns out that some electronic bill counters do scan serial numbers, [and compare them with an uploaded set of suspect numbers](https://www.gi-de.com/en/currency-technology/currency-management/digital-solutions/commercial-banks-cash-management-software/compass-asset-manager). That approach would require no extensive dataset. Oops. So maybe this sort of thing happens in Europe. I say the weight of the evidence currently suggests that the Fed does not do this, because of the lack of mention of this in various articles [such as this one](https://www.federalreservehistory.org/essays/cash-services). But I can’t quite rule it out entirely. > [@Zyada](#): > > If he didn’t have family, lived in an apartment and had recently been fired, his disappearance was more likely to be unnoticed. I suspect a lot of apartment complexes have tenants disappear in the night. Very good point. One would think that given the publicity of this case, that _someone_ would have noticed something amiss. But only probably and by now we’re in the land of comparing various improbabilities. === I noticed that there was very little discussion about where the suspects were at the time of the hijacking. Some, but not a lot. Today, whereabouts might be tracked by tracing credit cards, ATMs, cell phones and the like. Much less the case in 1971. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2024, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-b-cooper-case-closed/759802/187 "2024-12-01T02:35:18Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > No mention of recording serial numbers. If the BPS 3000 had that sort of feature, it would be reported I would think. Why would they? But also that list of numbers was everywhere for 5 years- every bank, etc- not one came in. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2024, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-b-cooper-case-closed/759802/188 "2024-12-01T03:12:12Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Why would they? Because it’s interesting and it belongs in an article explaining what the Fed does when it destroys currency. Like most institutions, the Fed wouldn’t mind free favorable publicity about its crime-fighting efforts. > [@](#): > > But also that list of numbers was everywhere for 5 years- every bank, etc- not one came in. 5+ years. That bill counting and sorting equipment is also used by banks. I have reservations about the technology of the 1970s (though I suspect they we’re _trying_ to monitor the serial numbers), but today some banks might still be on the lookout, albeit passively. Your underlying point seems to have held up. [Here’s a website selling bill counters.](https://www.safescan.com/en-us/store/bill-counters) The bank quality ones feature “Serial number scanning”. So yeah, it appears probable that little of the funds received re-entered circulation. Very odd cold case. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2024, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-b-cooper-case-closed/759802/189 "2024-12-01T10:10:50Z")
There wouldn’t be any point in recording the serial numbers of bills used in crimes if there wasn’t some means of detecting when those bills showed up again at a bank or the Federal Reserve. For that matter, there’s not much point in detecting the bills as the last step before they are destroyed. Suppose Cooper bought a pack of cigarettes at his neighborhood bar. The bartender spent it with his local liquor distributor. That guy deposited at the bank, who gave it to a local school teacher when she cashed her paycheck, etc. After a few years, it’s getting worn out, so the bank sends it back to the Treasury in D.C. They dump it in a bin of bills to be shredded. If they found one of the ransom bills then, they wouldn’t even know what bank it came from. The only way it makes sense to record the numbers is if you can detect one quickly, so you might be able to trace it back to Cooper. I did find it interesting that the bank in Seattle had ransom money pre-sorted and ready to go. I wonder if banks still do that. ---
**Author:** ![themapleleaf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/themapleleaf/32/14349_2.png) [@themapleleaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/themapleleaf)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2024, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-b-cooper-case-closed/759802/190 "2024-12-01T10:24:20Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I did find it interesting that the bank in Seattle had ransom money pre-sorted and ready to go. I wonder if banks still do that. This is very interesting indeed. How interesting - and ironic - that in 1971, humanity had advanced to the point that a bank would pre-suppose the contingency of a ransom demand and specifically prepare money for that contingency, yet all the public records, employment records, photo ID, testimony of multiple eyewitnesses, intel about missing persons, and techniques relating to police work, were not enough - and have not been enough in the years since - to give an answer to the mystery of the actual identity of the physical person who hijacked a 727 using the identity Dan Cooper. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2024, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-b-cooper-case-closed/759802/191 "2024-12-01T10:42:01Z")
> [@themapleleaf](#): > > …and techniques relating to police work, were not enough - and have not been enough in the years since… If the video is correct, the cigarette butts found after the plane landed have been lost. The idea of matching evidence with someone’s DNA probably wasn’t known to Cooper at the time. I vaguely remember hearing about that sort of testing in the 1980s, so it’s conceivable that the FBI might have been aware of the possibility in 1971. Horribly careless of them to misplace something so potentially useful. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2024, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-b-cooper-case-closed/759802/192 "2024-12-01T15:42:11Z")
The clip-on necktie would indicate to me that he intended to survive the jump. When we did parachute training in the Air Force we were told to not have anything hanging out, and when we flew we were not permitted to wear anything (like rings) that could hook on anything. Jumping out of a plane is violent enough without ripping your finger off or, perhaps, having a standard necktie catch on something and break your neck on the way out of the plane or during parachute deployment. As for the recent announcement of Cooper’s potential identity, if the evidence pans out I’m content with them saying he’s the guy. Conspiracy theorists won’t be, because like all conspiracy theories a resolution that doesn’t jibe with the answer they are certain is correct will be rejected out of hand. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2024, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-b-cooper-case-closed/759802/193 "2024-12-01T15:49:57Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes, it was “Dan Cooper”, as I have pointed out. Why such a strong need to keep repeating this? It’s an irrelevant bit of trivia. Both Dan and D. B. Are fictional as it relates to the hijacker’s real identity. He is famously, commonly and colloquially known as D. B. Cooper. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2024, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-b-cooper-case-closed/759802/194 "2024-12-01T15:55:20Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > There wouldn’t be any point in recording the serial numbers of bills used in crimes if there wasn’t some means of detecting when those bills showed up again at a bank or the Federal Reserve. I should think there is some utility at least in just being able to match the suspect to the crime. Such as if the FBI receives a tip that someone has suddenly come into a large amount of money (or is straight up bragging about being _the_ D. B. Cooper—who surely gave a fake name and so we can refer to him according to how he is popularly known and not some other equally fake name) and they match the description of a perpetrator given by witnesses. I mean, being able to match the roughly $200,000 found buried in the hypothetical suspect’s back yard to the serial numbers recorded by the FBI certainly helps to eliminate alternative explanations for where the money came from and thus remove reasonable doubt. ---
**Author:** ![ZonexandScout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zonexandscout/32/544_2.png) [@ZonexandScout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZonexandScout)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2024, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-b-cooper-case-closed/759802/195 "2024-12-01T16:57:50Z")
Plus, a clip-on might be considered some slight suggestion that he had some LEO or security experience. Even back then, LEOs and security personnel would always wear clip-ons in order to prevent someone from grabbing their tie to control them. Nobody expecting a tussle wears a real tie. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2024, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-b-cooper-case-closed/759802/196 "2024-12-01T17:27:56Z")
In the 1970s, clip-ons were pretty common for ordinary folks too. They were always cheesy, but somebody who owned one suit only for special occasions might well have a clip-on tie or two. One hell of a lot of office droids and even lower-middle managers or white collar specialists (IT, engineering, etc.) of that era wore a dress shirt and tie, but not a suit. Lotta clip-ons there too. Conversely, somebody who’s daily work uniform was a nice suit (exec, attorney, etc) would _never_ be seen in one. They were sort of the business casual of the short-sleeve dress shirt brigade. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2024, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-b-cooper-case-closed/759802/197 "2024-12-01T21:06:21Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > For non-CT types, the tie is suspected of being bought second hand at a thrift store in the NW, possibly Seattle. Not doubting this, but suspected by who? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2024, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-b-cooper-case-closed/759802/198 "2024-12-01T21:34:46Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Because it’s interesting and it belongs in an article explaining what the Fed does when it destroys currency. Like most institutions, the Fed wouldn’t mind free favorable publicity about its crime-fighting efforts. But also, some crime fighting methods are kept secret. I never knew that bit about the destroyed bills being recorded until a Treasury Agent revealed it at a conference. > [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > For that matter, there’s not much point in detecting the bills as the last step before they are destroyed. Not quite last step- the Federal banks record the info- then send the bills and the info to the Mint. The info also serves as a backup in case the bills are stolen on the way. But yes- however, then the FBI knows the money is being spent- it wasnt lost when Cooper died? in the wilderness. That was the assumption after 5 years- and it is a very logical assumption. And the FBI quickly IDed the bills washed up. > [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > Why such a strong need to keep repeating this? Welcome to the SDMB, when pedantry is a way of life. 🤪 ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2024, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-b-cooper-case-closed/759802/199 "2024-12-01T23:06:40Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Not quite last step- the Federal banks record the info- then send the bills and the info to the Mint. The info also serves as a backup in case the bills are stolen on the way. No. The Fed shreds the bills themselves. They do not transport the bills back to the MInt (what would be the point?) The buck starts at the Bureau of Engraving and ends at the Fed. [I’ll repeat my citation.](https://www.bostonfed.org/news-and-events/news/2019/07/when-bills-go-bad.aspx) and add emphasis: > Every single bill the Fed receives is sorted, analyzed, and bundled through one of the processing machines at its 28 cash processing locations. The machines are looking to verify that a bill that comes to the Fed as, say, a $20 bill is actually a $20. Then, it works to verify the bill is genuine. If the sensors identify bills as suspected counterfeits, they are rejected and examined again by well-trained cash handlers who determine if it is authentic or should be sent to the United States Secret Service for further examination. > If the bill is determined to be legitimate, the machine’s sensors measure whether it is “fit for commerce” by assessing variables including its color, firmness, and readability, or if it has tears, holes, or writing on it. Damage to security features – for instance, if the 3D security ribbon in a $100 is missing – can also doom a bill. > If the bill doesn’t meet fitness standards, it’s shredded on the spot. [WAPO has pics of the shredding process.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/interactive/2023/old-dollar-bills-cash-federal-reserve/) (sub req) > [@DrDeth](#): > > But also, some crime fighting methods are kept secret. I never knew that bit about the destroyed bills being recorded until a Treasury Agent revealed it at a conference. Banks scan serial numbers. I can’t see the point of the Fed doing so. I suspect the Treasury, FBI, and Secret Service (which handles counterfeiting) receive reports from the banking system. ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2024, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-b-cooper-case-closed/759802/200 "2024-12-01T23:19:25Z")
Yes, this was a key part of the case against Bruno Hauptmann who kidnapped the Lindbergh baby - he had money matching the ransom cash hidden in his house. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-b-cooper-case-closed/759802.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-b-cooper-case-closed/759802.md?page=11)