# D.B.Cooper - Case closed? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 13, 2016, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-b-cooper-case-closed/759802 "2016-07-13T11:35:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-b-cooper-case-closed/759802/41 "2017-01-14T06:04:04Z")
Updating this thread: > [@](#): > > A band of amateur scientists selected by the Seattle FBI to look for clues in the world’s most infamous skyjacking may have found new evidence in the 45-year-old case. They’re asking for the public’s help because of new, potential leads that could link DB Cooper to the Puget Sound aerospace industry in the early 1970s. > > The scientific team has been analyzing particles removed from the clip-on tie left behind by Cooper after he hijacked a Northwest Orient passenger jet in November 1971. A powerful electron microscope located more than 100,000 particles on old the JCPenny tie. The team has identified particles like Cerium, Strontium Sulfide, and pure titanium. “These are what they call rare earth elements. They’re used in very narrow fields, for very specific things,” said Tom Kaye, lead researcher for the group calling itself Citizen Sleuths. Kaye says the group is intrigued by the finding, because the elements identified were rarely used in 1971, during the time of Cooper’s daring leap with a parachute from a passenger jet. One place they were being used was for Boeing’s high-tech Super Sonic Transport plane, which was developed with government funding in the 1960s and 1970s [http://www.king5.com/news/crime/new-evidence-was-db-cooper-boeing-employee/385924766](http://www.king5.com/news/crime/new-evidence-was-db-cooper-boeing-employee/385924766) ---
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-b-cooper-case-closed/759802/42 "2017-01-14T07:34:31Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Updating this thread: > > [http://www.king5.com/news/crime/new-evidence-was-db-cooper-boeing-employee/385924766](http://www.king5.com/news/crime/new-evidence-was-db-cooper-boeing-employee/385924766) So…he was a mid- or higher-level Boeing employee, but no one there noticed he stopped showing up just about the same time a mystery man hijacked an airplane? ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-b-cooper-case-closed/759802/43 "2017-01-14T07:48:25Z")
> [@TSBG](#): > > So…he was a mid- or higher-level Boeing employee, but no one there noticed he stopped showing up just about the same time a mystery man hijacked an airplane? Yeah there is no way someone like that would just disappear un-reported to police and also you would think that the FBI would have investigated any and all missing persons with any kind of aviation background back in the 1970’s. Sample contamination could be a real issue, is there any forensic procedure that the FBI might have previously done on the Tie that would introduce those particles? Of course the other possibility is that he survived the jump and went back to his job at Boeing :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-b-cooper-case-closed/759802/44 "2017-01-14T08:15:38Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > The lack of anyone ever putting in a missing persons claim that could be matched to “Cooper” is one of the great mysteries of the case. > > Either he was a true loner, or had such distant connections to family and friends that no one really missed him in a meaningful timeframe, or his spouse/partner/friend was a knowing accomplice who did not dare speak up. > > It’s possible a deathbed confession could still lead to the truth. If DBC was about 35, and thus born about 1940, anyone of the same age would be into the dyin’ years. I would not be surprised if some kind of verifiable claim, with evidence, comes to light in the next ten years. (And not another “my dad was out of town that week” sort of claim.) I’m with you. However one big mark against it is that you have to figure he wanted the cash to spend and none of it has ever turned up in circulation. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-b-cooper-case-closed/759802/45 "2017-01-14T08:33:43Z")
> [@White SIFL](#): > > I’m with you. However one big mark against it is that you have to figure he wanted the cash to spend and none of it has ever turned up in circulation. Yes but if he did survive and immediately fled the country it possible that the notes just never found their way back to the US. It’s estimated that half of the total 1.3 Trillion of USD notes in circulation are outside the US. I know from my travels in countries like Cambodia US notes are never returned to the US by local banks to get replaced, they just keep circulating no matter how tattered and old they are. I imagine the same is true of a few South American countries. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-b-cooper-case-closed/759802/46 "2017-01-14T09:32:47Z")
You know, with the dates involved, it’s _technically_ possible, if he was unusually fit for his age, and with some decent makeup and luck with lighting, that Cooper was actually Jack the Ripper… ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-b-cooper-case-closed/759802/47 "2017-01-14T09:55:37Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > Er, DNA was discovered in 1953 - about 18 years prior to the “D.B. Cooper” hijacking. > > Its use as a forensic tool did indeed post-date the hijacking - by about 15 years. 1953 is when Watson and Crick proposed their double-helix structure for DNA. That DNA was the genetic material was first shown by Avery, MacLeod, and McCarty in 1943 and later confirmed by Hershey and Chase in 1952. The substance itself was first isolated by Friedrich Miescher in 1869, who called it “nuclein”. From this his student Richard Altmann in 1889 characterized “nucleic acid”. In 1919 Phoebus Levene identified the bases, the sugar, and phosphate components and showed these were linked together in a nucleotide. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-b-cooper-case-closed/759802/48 "2017-01-14T10:57:36Z")
> [@TSBG](#): > > So…he was a mid- or higher-level Boeing employee, but no one there noticed he stopped showing up just about the same time a mystery man hijacked an airplane? Or he did not disappear. Just went back to work as normal. That would allay any suspicion. We don’t know what he needed the money for anyway. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-b-cooper-case-closed/759802/49 "2017-01-14T12:15:36Z")
> [@TSBG](#): > > So…he was a mid- or higher-level Boeing employee, but no one there noticed he stopped showing up just about the same time a mystery man hijacked an airplane? He could have been somebody who worked for a small firm that machined parts. In that era there were hundreds of such firms surrounding the aerospace industry in Seattle and in the LA area. And a few other aero-tech clusters around the country. His tie could also have been contaminated months before the event. The “evidence” on the show was the guy was a drifter, arriving and departing from one or another town every 6 months or so. So perhaps at some point he works in a small aerospace machine shop for a bit, then quits/gets fired. A year or more later he pulls the caper. Not too likely for the Feds to connect \*those \*dots. Something CSI conditions us to today is that the FBI, et al, have every factoid imaginable in their computer. “Quick, Bill, pull up the personal records of everyone at every company in the tri-state area who no-showed at work last week. Click click type type. Here’s our answer: 347 people. Only 5 of which are the right age, race, & sex. Let’s roll!” The reality today, and far more so in 1971, is that far more ordinary administrative info like that is never uncovered at all. There simply isn’t/wasn’t the mechanism to gather it nor the manpower to catalog it. Specific to this point, the FBI may well have asked Boeing HR whether any employees disappeared that week. They’d be relying on the news media and word of mouth and public-minded people everywhere for any info from the other businesses in the area. Recognizing that “area” is really “the United States.” Which is a big place now and was far bigger then. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-b-cooper-case-closed/759802/50 "2017-01-14T13:25:46Z")
The fifth episode of the new show _White Rabbit Project_ (with the old _Mythbusters_’ build team) covered Dan Cooper as part of the show. They mentioned the tie particulates and also mentioned a couple things that suggested he was Canadian. One thing that surprised me is they mentioned a French language comic book about a Canadian pilot [_Dan Cooper_](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Cooper_(comics)) that had scenes similar to what Cooper later did. So maybe not a US aircraft worker, but Canadian. I wonder some of these connections would have been found earlier if the press hadn’t worked so hard to convert “Dan” into “D.B.” BTW: The fact that some of the money was found washed up on the banks of the Columbia River as well as none was ever found circulating strongly implies that none was ever spent. ---
**Author:** ![DrForrester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8edcca/32.png) [@DrForrester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrForrester)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-b-cooper-case-closed/759802/51 "2017-01-14T15:01:42Z")
Pardon my ignorance and slightly off-topic question. But, how, exactly, is it so certain that none of the ransom money was never spent? I know that each bill that is created has a unique serial number. I assume the serial numbers of the bills given to Mr. Cooper are known. But, is it really true that the serial numbers of bills are routinely scanned to track the bills in circulation? (in the 1970s?) How is this accomplished? Why is it accomplished? ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-b-cooper-case-closed/759802/52 "2017-01-14T15:12:10Z")
He could have just got the tie at a second hand store or as a hand me down from someone. I imagine a lot of stuff at second hand stores in the Seattle area pass through the hands of people in the aerospace industry. And how many people have their ties – clip on, no less – thoroughly cleaned? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-b-cooper-case-closed/759802/53 "2017-01-14T15:47:58Z")
> [@DrForrester](#): > > Pardon my ignorance and slightly off-topic question. But, how, exactly, is it so certain that none of the ransom money was never spent? > > I know that each bill that is created has a unique serial number. I assume the serial numbers of the bills given to Mr. Cooper are known. > > But, is it really true that the serial numbers of bills are routinely scanned to track the bills in circulation? (in the 1970s?) How is this accomplished? Why is it accomplished? Bills eventually get turned in to the Fed when they’re worn enough and happen to pass through the hands of a bank. As best we know, other than the small packet that was found on the riverbank, zero of those many hundreds of pieces of paper have ever made their way back to the Fed. Those folks do scan every returned bill for a bunch of reasons. It’s \*possible \* they’re still shifting around in the underground (=drug) economy thought to flourish in the forests of WA. Or that “Cooper” successfully absconded to Nicaragua with the bulk of the money which has been slowly dispersing around Latin America ever since. It’s also possible he bought a Powerball ticket with his own cash after he hiked to town, buried the loot never to be seen again, cashed his winning ticket and is living very nicely in plain sight off the winnings. The mere fact something might be possible doesn’t mean it’s happened; especially not when it’s vanishingly unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![JWT\_Kottekoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3ec8ea/32.png) [@JWT\_Kottekoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JWT_Kottekoe)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-b-cooper-case-closed/759802/54 "2017-01-14T16:03:18Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Updating this thread: > > [http://www.king5.com/news/crime/new-evidence-was-db-cooper-boeing-employee/385924766](http://www.king5.com/news/crime/new-evidence-was-db-cooper-boeing-employee/385924766) > [@](#): > > A band of amateur scientists selected by the Seattle FBI to look for clues in the world’s most infamous skyjacking may have found new evidence in the 45-year-old case. They’re asking for the public’s help because of new, potential leads that could link DB Cooper to the Puget Sound aerospace industry in the early 1970s. > > The scientific team has been analyzing particles removed from the clip-on tie left behind by Cooper after he hijacked a Northwest Orient passenger jet in November 1971. A powerful electron microscope located more than 100,000 particles on old the JCPenny tie. The team has identified particles like Cerium, Strontium Sulfide, and pure titanium. “These are what they call rare earth elements. They’re used in very narrow fields, for very specific things,” said Tom Kaye, lead researcher for the group calling itself Citizen Sleuths. Kaye says the group is intrigued by the finding, because the elements identified were rarely used in 1971, during the time of Cooper’s daring leap with a parachute from a passenger jet. One place they were being used was for Boeing’s high-tech Super Sonic Transport plane, which was developed with government funding in the 1960s and 1970s The only element in that list that is a rare earth is Cerium. Contrary to a popular misconception, rare earths are not rare. Cerium and cerium oxide have many common uses including polishing compound, flints for cigarette lighters, mantles for lantern, etc. Titanium, Strontium, and Sulfur are ubiquitous. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-b-cooper-case-closed/759802/55 "2017-01-14T18:20:16Z")
The odds of contaminants, um, contaminating this latest revelation are high. Maybe Patricia Cornwell will reveal the true bandit in an upcoming book. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-b-cooper-case-closed/759802/56 "2017-01-14T21:43:26Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > He could have just got the tie at a second hand store or as a hand me down from someone. I imagine a lot of stuff at second hand stores in the Seattle area pass through the hands of people in the aerospace industry. And how many people have their ties – clip on, no less – thoroughly cleaned? Seattle? He got on the plane in Portland. Never left it while at SeaTac and bailed out just NW of Portland. If you’re going to suggest a city he may have purchased the tie in, Portland would be a _far_ better guess than Seattle. And Portland had no significant airplane manufacturing at the time. As to tracking serial numbers, there have been a lot of cases over the years where such tracking was quite successful. My favorite [example](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Weyerhaeuser_kidnapping#FBI_investigation). Note: _both_ kidnappers were caught separately using serial number information. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-b-cooper-case-closed/759802/57 "2017-01-14T21:49:55Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Bills eventually get turned in to the Fed when they’re worn enough and happen to pass through the hands of a bank. . That’s if they are spent in the US. See my previous post. Half of the total amount of US dollars issued are circulating outside of the US and many of those do not get sent back to the Fed, foreign banks will often just circulate old notes until they are falling apart. In short, no we don’t actually know if the money was ever spent. If he did survive and then left the country with the money, it’s perfectly reasonable that notes wouldn’t be found by the feds. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-b-cooper-case-closed/759802/58 "2017-01-15T05:25:12Z")
Or if the bag was lost during the jump. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-b-cooper-case-closed/759802/59 "2017-01-15T11:14:31Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > That’s if they are spent in the US. See my previous post. Half of the total amount of US dollars issued are circulating outside of the US and many of those do not get sent back to the Fed, foreign banks will often just circulate old notes until they are falling apart. In short, no we don’t actually know if the money was ever spent. If he did survive and then left the country with the money, it’s perfectly reasonable that notes wouldn’t be found by the feds. for the spending of a large amount of such notes over time, either short or long, it is not believable that absolutely no bills would not over the many decades cross through some segment of the banking system that communicates with the American system (from the wiki page “In late 1971 the FBI distributed lists of the ransom serial numbers to financial institutions, casinos, race tracks, and other businesses routinely conducting significant cash transactions, and to law enforcement agencies around the world”), even if by ricochet. It can be believed very little might cross, but for a number like 10 thousand of the USD 20 bills, zero being ever detected is not very plausible, even if by ending up detected only on later usage. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-b-cooper-case-closed/759802/60 "2017-01-15T16:28:28Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > > [@LSLGuy](#): > > > > Bills eventually get turned in to the Fed when they’re worn enough and happen to pass through the hands of a bank. … > > That’s if they are spent in the US. See my previous post. Half of the total amount of US dollars issued are circulating outside of the US and many of those do not get sent back to the Fed, foreign banks will often just circulate old notes until they are falling apart. In short, no we don’t actually know if the money was ever spent. If he did survive and then left the country with the money, it’s perfectly reasonable that notes wouldn’t be found by the feds. I’m hoping you read the very next paragraph of my quoted post wherein I addressed exactly the scenario you raise. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-b-cooper-case-closed/759802.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-b-cooper-case-closed/759802.md?page=4)