# D.C. gun ban overturned! Now I want to buy one! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 28, 2008, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-c-gun-ban-overturned-now-i-want-to-buy-one/454561 "2008-06-28T12:19:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2008, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-c-gun-ban-overturned-now-i-want-to-buy-one/454561/1 "2008-06-28T12:19:16Z")
Ok, let’s assume that I am a D.C. resident, and I just got done celebrating the idea that I can now lawfully possess a handgun in my home for personal protection. I go down to the ATM, pull out a thousand bucks (I want a good one) and go handgun shopping. I find out that there are no licensed gun dealers in D.C. No problem, I think, I will go over into Virginia or Maryland. Well, sorry, under federal law, nobody (dealer or otherwise) can sell a handgun to someone that is not a resident of his home state. So, here I am with this wonderful individual right, guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States, with no legal means to exercise it. It there any other “right” like this? Shouldn’t the Court have fashioned some remedy to actually let D.C. residents recognize this right? What if you worked in the D.C. Gun Registration office? You could deny everyone there a handgun license on the grounds that they got their gun illegally. Not only deny the license, but slap the cuffs on them… ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2008, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-c-gun-ban-overturned-now-i-want-to-buy-one/454561/2 "2008-06-28T12:21:47Z")
In time the dealers will return, just wait for them. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2008, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-c-gun-ban-overturned-now-i-want-to-buy-one/454561/3 "2008-06-28T12:23:38Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] In time the dealers will return, just wait for them. [/QUOTE] And I’m sure that D.C. is welcoming them with open arms, and will streamline the process of granting their business license and local firearms dealer permits. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2008, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-c-gun-ban-overturned-now-i-want-to-buy-one/454561/4 "2008-06-28T13:34:56Z")
[QUOTE=jtgain] Well, sorry, under federal law, nobody (dealer or otherwise) can sell a handgun to someone that is not a resident of his home state. [/QUOTE] WTF!? That’s news to me. When did that happen? ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2008, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-c-gun-ban-overturned-now-i-want-to-buy-one/454561/5 "2008-06-28T13:56:56Z")
[QUOTE=Lumpy] WTF!? That’s news to me. When did that happen? [/QUOTE] That’s not entirely correct. What they can’t do is a straight transaction face-to-face. If I go to Ohio I cannot buy a handgun from an Ohio dealer and walk out of the store with it. What I can do is buy the gun and have it shipped to a holder of a Federal Firearms License in the state I live in, who will then legally complete the transfer. As I speak I have a handgun purchased in this manner from a dealer in Florida in my safe upstairs. So, the key is to find a FFL holder in DC who will do the transfer for you, consistent with local laws. Incidentally, the overturning of the ban doesn’t mean it ceases to exist immediately. [The Court gave them 3 weeks](http://www.newsweek.com/id/143411). Nothing has changed yet. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2008, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-c-gun-ban-overturned-now-i-want-to-buy-one/454561/6 "2008-06-28T14:10:41Z")
[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF] So, the key is to find a FFL holder in DC who will do the transfer for you, consistent with local laws. [/QUOTE] [Find a dealer](http://www.gunbroker.com/User/DealerNetwork.asp) ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2008, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-c-gun-ban-overturned-now-i-want-to-buy-one/454561/7 "2008-06-28T14:14:31Z")
Incidentally, there is at least one person in Washington, DC with a FFL. In one of life’s great ironies, this person happens to be the head of the Violence Policy Center, [Josh Sugarmann](http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/2008/02/the_quintessenc.php). Maybe he can help process peoples’ transfers. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2008, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-c-gun-ban-overturned-now-i-want-to-buy-one/454561/8 "2008-06-28T14:19:35Z")
That’s the guy I found using the link I posted. He’s the only one the finder found. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2008, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-c-gun-ban-overturned-now-i-want-to-buy-one/454561/9 "2008-06-28T15:05:21Z")
I can’t find a link, but the Mayor of DC announced that via zoning laws they would absolutely prohibit any FFL holder from legally operating in the District, in effect doing an end-run around the Supreme Court. He also mentioned that they would start enforcing bans on semi-auto handguns, rifles, and shotguns, and would use “other measures” (was the quote I heard on the radio) to ensure that no new guns were brought into DC. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2008, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-c-gun-ban-overturned-now-i-want-to-buy-one/454561/10 "2008-06-28T15:16:19Z")
[QUOTE=Una Persson] I can’t find a link, but the Mayor of DC announced that via zoning laws they would absolutely prohibit any FFL holder from legally operating in the District, in effect doing an end-run around the Supreme Court. He also mentioned that they would start enforcing bans on semi-auto handguns, rifles, and shotguns, and would use “other measures” (was the quote I heard on the radio) to ensure that no new guns were brought into DC. [/QUOTE] He’ll get smacked down for that, hard. There is ample precedent for the judicial system nailing people for end-runs like that (the 1960s-1970s school integration cases). If Fenty wants to try a _de facto_ ban, he’s in for a world of hurt. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2008, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-c-gun-ban-overturned-now-i-want-to-buy-one/454561/11 "2008-06-28T15:17:34Z")
[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF] Incidentally, the overturning of the ban doesn’t mean it ceases to exist immediately. [The Court gave them 3 weeks](http://www.newsweek.com/id/143411). Nothing has changed yet. [/QUOTE] What I want to know is why Newsweek deliberately did not challenge the Mayor when he said this whopper: > [@](#): > > Newsweek: Critics of the ban say that it was never really effective, that the number of homicides and gun-related crimes actually went up since the ban was instituted in 1976. > > The Mayor: That is actually not true. You can measure that objectively. Somewhere in the mid- to late '80s and mid-'90s, we were way over 400 homicides, maybe close to 500. The last two years, we’ve averaged—and this is way too much, obviously—in the 170 to 180 range. Huh? They said since 1976, so you compare with the late 80’s to early 90’s? Since the Mayor is either a bald-faced liar or else too stupid to even be informed on such a vital issue, here are the stats: [District of Columbia 1960 to 2019](http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/dccrime.htm) 1976: 188 1991: 482 (more than 2.5 times the 1976 value…note the “rate” is even higher because the population decreased) In fact, in the 32 years since the ban was put in place, in only 5 of those years was the homicide total lower than in 1976. The real question is, why does Newsweek hire reporters that can’t ask the hard questions? A 5-second Google told me this - does Newsweek not have internet access yet? Or could it be something else is at work here… ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2008, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-c-gun-ban-overturned-now-i-want-to-buy-one/454561/12 "2008-06-28T15:26:59Z")
[QUOTE=Una Persson] I can’t find a link, but the Mayor of DC announced that via zoning laws they would absolutely prohibit any FFL holder from legally operating in the District, in effect doing an end-run around the Supreme Court. He also mentioned that they would start enforcing bans on semi-auto handguns, rifles, and shotguns, and would use “other measures” (was the quote I heard on the radio) to ensure that no new guns were brought into DC. [/QUOTE] > [@Butch Cassidy](#): > > I couldn’t do that. Could you do that? Why can they do it? Who are those guys? God, “other measures” Why doesn’t DC just secede. Oh, right…… Hmmmmm….. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2008, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-c-gun-ban-overturned-now-i-want-to-buy-one/454561/13 "2008-06-28T15:37:24Z")
[If the SC strikes down DC’s gun law, what weaselly restrictions will cities try?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=469953) Guess I have my answer. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2008, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-c-gun-ban-overturned-now-i-want-to-buy-one/454561/14 "2008-06-28T23:15:03Z")
[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF] He’ll get smacked down for that, hard. There is ample precedent for the judicial system nailing people for end-runs like that (the 1960s-1970s school integration cases). If Fenty wants to try a _de facto_ ban, he’s in for a world of hurt. [/QUOTE] It will take some time, though. Even though you’re right, I still think it’ll be quite awhile before D.C. residents can legally and easily buy a gun. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2008, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-c-gun-ban-overturned-now-i-want-to-buy-one/454561/15 "2008-06-28T23:33:36Z")
[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF] He’ll get smacked down for that, hard. There is ample precedent for the judicial system nailing people for end-runs like that (the 1960s-1970s school integration cases). If Fenty wants to try a _de facto_ ban, he’s in for a world of hurt. [/QUOTE] With respect, what world of hurt? He has the entire tax basis of Washington DC behind him. He can spend whatever the taxpayers and voters will bear on legal battles again and again and again, and he faces no personal penalties that I can possibly see, other than the _incredibly_ slim chance of a recall election. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2008, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-c-gun-ban-overturned-now-i-want-to-buy-one/454561/16 "2008-06-29T00:24:25Z")
[QUOTE=Una Persson] With respect, what world of hurt? He has the entire tax basis of Washington DC behind him. He can spend whatever the taxpayers and voters will bear on legal battles again and again and again, and he faces no personal penalties that I can possibly see, other than the _incredibly_ slim chance of a recall election. [/QUOTE] Judges being human, he faces the chance that the courts will order remedies to deal with his flouting the law that were more expansive than what he could have gotten away with if he had made a good-faith attempt to obey the law. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2008, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-c-gun-ban-overturned-now-i-want-to-buy-one/454561/17 "2008-06-29T02:29:45Z")
The sale of handguns became legal two days ago. You might want to give dealers a week or two to set up shop. Personally, I’ll bet it won’t take much longer than that. Washington’s a major market where gun sales have been artificially restricted. Now that the ban is lifted it’ll be a boom market. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2008, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-c-gun-ban-overturned-now-i-want-to-buy-one/454561/18 "2008-06-29T13:07:16Z")
[QUOTE=Una Persson] With respect, what world of hurt? He has the entire tax basis of Washington DC behind him. [/QUOTE] Actually, Congress could step in and revise DC’s gun laws however they want. Constitutionally, home rule is a privilege, not a right, here in DC. But given the Democratic control of Congress (which will surely increase in this year’s elections) that is unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-c-gun-ban-overturned-now-i-want-to-buy-one/454561/19 "2008-06-30T23:44:56Z")
Just saw on CNN that beat cops support the overturning of the ban. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-c-gun-ban-overturned-now-i-want-to-buy-one/454561/20 "2008-07-01T00:08:49Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] Now that the ban is lifted it’ll be a boom market. [/QUOTE] Pun intended? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-c-gun-ban-overturned-now-i-want-to-buy-one/454561.md?page=2)