# D.C. Statehood **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 16, 2016, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-c-statehood/752421 "2016-04-16T22:40:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-c-statehood/752421/41 "2016-04-18T04:58:38Z")
The issue of the impact on political balance in the Senate would be easily addressed by simultaneously splitting Utah or Idaho into two states. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-c-statehood/752421/42 "2016-04-18T05:11:21Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Maybe all those black people just should have moved from states with Jim Crow laws, eh? If it was that important an issue… Yep. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-c-statehood/752421/43 "2016-04-18T05:23:02Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Simple answer. If living in a state is that important, then they can move. There are pros and cons for every state you choose to live in Nope. A citizen’s basic right to full and proper representation in the national government should not be affected to such a significant degree by his or her choice of residence. It’s fundamentally different from the other “pros and cons” of living in a particular state. > [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > The issue of the impact on political balance in the Senate would be easily addressed by simultaneously splitting Utah or Idaho into two states. If giving DC statehood (or carving off part of it to Maryland) is the right thing to do, then it’s the right thing to do. If it’s not the right thing to do, then it’s not the right thing to do. But “balance of power” in the Senate should be irrelevant to making that determination. And even if it were relevant, cutting up an already-small state would be possibly the most ridiculous way to address the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-c-statehood/752421/44 "2016-04-18T13:15:33Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Cite for Maryland not wanting DC? Not saying you’re wrong, I just honestly haven’t heard that. Seems to me that Maryland is already dealing with the DC suburbs (including PG county, as you say) but not getting all of the sweet, sweet, tax revenue that a heavily gentrified DC would assuredly bring in. Maybe I’m missing something, though. I’ve tried to link to these bills but it proved to be a headache… but anyway, Rep Louie Gohmert has twice introduced bills for retrocession of DC to Maryland. Neither bill gained a cosponsor. Del Eleanor Holmes-Norton has often introduced bills to provide for DC statehood. These bills are cosponsored by nearly all of Maryland’s congressional delegation. It’s important to also note that most powerful Maryland politicians have their base in the Baltimore political structure. Retrocession would create a new political power center in Maryland, not benefiting these senior statesmen types. It’s sort of their own survival that is at stake. > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Yep. What do you think about shutting down the DoJ’s Office of Civil Rights, and turning it into a booking office for U-Haul and Penske truck rentals? “Hello, you’ve reached the Office of Civil Rights. If you have a complaint about discriminatory employment practices, press one to be connected to U-Haul. If you have a complaint about discriminatory local laws, press two to be connected to Two Hunks and a Truck Moving Company. If you have a complaint about discrimination perpetrated by the Federal government, press three to be connected to Lufthansa for the first flight off of this continent.” ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-c-statehood/752421/45 "2016-04-18T13:32:29Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > The whole underlying reason why DC has limited political rights makes no sense. What other world capital is designed this why? None. Mexico DF (I think) and Madrid. Madrid is a funny one: Madrid province was made its own Autonomous Region, and the capital itself separated from it - the city of Madrid is not part of the Region of Madrid. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-c-statehood/752421/46 "2016-04-18T13:35:46Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Nope. A citizen’s basic right to full and proper representation in the national government should not be affected to such a significant degree by his or her choice of residence. It’s fundamentally different from the other “pros and cons” of living in a particular state. So every territory should be required to become a state so their residents can vote in national election and have representatives and senators? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-c-statehood/752421/47 "2016-04-18T13:37:16Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > What do you think about shutting down the DoJ’s Office of Civil Rights, and turning it into a booking office for U-Haul and Penske truck rentals? > > “Hello, you’ve reached the Office of Civil Rights. If you have a complaint about discriminatory employment practices, press one to be connected to U-Haul. If you have a complaint about discriminatory local laws, press two to be connected to Two Hunks and a Truck Moving Company. If you have a complaint about discrimination perpetrated by the Federal government, press three to be connected to Lufthansa for the first flight off of this continent.” Not a bad idea, but in all fairness to my position, Canada should be an option as well. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-c-statehood/752421/48 "2016-04-18T13:41:29Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Mexico DF (I think) and Madrid. Madrid is a funny one: Madrid province was made its own Autonomous Region, and the capital itself separated from it - the city of Madrid is not part of the Region of Madrid. Are residents of these cities full political participants in elections in the same basis as any other citizen in another part of the country? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-c-statehood/752421/49 "2016-04-18T14:04:31Z")
Simple. Remove all Federal taxes from DC residents and leave them unrepresented. I wonder how long it will take for all the rich people who swarm in to squeeze the poor people out? ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-c-statehood/752421/50 "2016-04-18T14:06:42Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > So every territory should be required to become a state so their residents can vote in national election and have representatives and senators? Yes, I favor each of the extant territories being required to become a state, or join a state, or go their own way independently. I do not find it consistent with American democratic ideals to have different classes of citizens and nationals. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-c-statehood/752421/51 "2016-04-18T14:07:20Z")
I would advocate a slower transition, perhaps giving the DC area her financial independence first, see how things work out. We may find a level of self-determination somewhere between here-and-now and full Statehood that serves the People the best. There is some (maybe not much) agitation in Puerto Rico, Guam, Canada and Samoa for full independence. Perhaps this is another direction for the District of Columbia, either “Imperial City” under Papal control or let Columbia have the territory back. It was kinda rude for us to take it in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-c-statehood/752421/52 "2016-04-18T14:12:57Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Not a bad idea, but in all fairness to my position, Canada should be an option as well. Do you think Thomas Jefferson should have written, > [@](#): > > We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights if they live in certain places but not others, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, unless the governed are just too lazy to move to another locality where they would be allowed to fully participate in such government, except when it comes to Americans moving to England, we’re only talking about Americans who really ought to move to another place in America – ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-c-statehood/752421/53 "2016-04-18T14:14:46Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I’ve tried to link to these bills but it proved to be a headache… but anyway, Rep Louie Gohmert has twice introduced bills for retrocession of DC to Maryland. Neither bill gained a cosponsor. Del Eleanor Holmes-Norton has often introduced bills to provide for DC statehood. These bills are cosponsored by nearly all of Maryland’s congressional delegation. > > It’s important to also note that most powerful Maryland politicians have their base in the Baltimore political structure. Retrocession would create a new political power center in Maryland, not benefiting these senior statesmen types. It’s sort of their own survival that is at stake. That’s interesting. I guess I still question everyone’s motives, then. If nobody will sign on to a retrocession bill, is it because “Maryland doesn’t want DC” or is it because “Maryland Democrats want the US senate to get 2 DC senators?” And the same can be said of Maryland & DC (D) voters. If statehood were somehow forcibly taken off the table, how much would everyone continue to object to retrocession? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-c-statehood/752421/54 "2016-04-18T14:22:09Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Are residents of these cities full political participants in elections in the same basis as any other citizen in another part of the country? Not for the city of Madrid. I’m not sure what the setup is for DF or for Brasilia, another one that’s a district and not a state. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-c-statehood/752421/55 "2016-04-18T14:23:42Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Are residents of these cities full political participants in elections in the same basis as any other citizen in another part of the country? Yes for DF, Brasilia and ACT – The city is under a special separate regime but the citizens elect a slate of voting members to their Congress and Parliament. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-c-statehood/752421/56 "2016-04-18T14:23:48Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > If giving DC statehood (or carving off part of it to Maryland) is the right thing to do, then it’s the right thing to do. If it’s not the right thing to do, then it’s not the right thing to do. But “balance of power” in the Senate should be irrelevant to making that determination. If it’s irrelevant to you, then it shouldn’t be a basis not to do the right thing. Obviously it is relevant to a lot of other people, and this is a way of overcoming those objections and making the right thing happen. Certainly, retrocession avoids having to take this step, but as **Ravenman** has pointed out, that idea raises its own balance-of-power objections within Maryland. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-c-statehood/752421/57 "2016-04-18T14:30:17Z")
From what I’ve looked up, voters in the city of Madrid do elect members of Congress, too. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-c-statehood/752421/58 "2016-04-18T15:00:26Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > The US has several territories that are not states and are highly unlikely to be states in the near future. This is not unique to DC. Furthermore, you’d probably need a constitution amendment to make DC a state. A deeply blue state that most of the red states aren’t going to jump thru hoops to make happen. Most of those territories are not subject to federal income tax. I suspect that DC would take that deal. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-c-statehood/752421/59 "2016-04-18T15:48:53Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Simple answer. If living in a state is that important, then they can move. There are pros and cons for every state you choose to live in > [@mhendo](#): > > Nope. A citizen’s basic right to full and proper representation in the national government should not be affected to such a significant degree by his or her choice of residence. It’s fundamentally different from the other “pros and cons” of living in a particular state. That argument works for every other territory; moving out of Guam or Puerto Rico or American Samoa is an onerous proposition. But people move from DC to MD or VA pretty frequently, usually for a job (Driving from DC to one of the surrounding jurisdictions is unironically called “countercommuting” and no one is a fan of higher rents paired with lower wages). Moving out of DC isn’t particularly burdensome. It’s also known as “moving down the road a few blocks.” I’ve done it myself more than once and helped others do it dozens of times. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-c-statehood/752421/60 "2016-04-18T15:53:44Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Yes, I favor each of the extant territories being required to become a state, or join a state, or go their own way independently. I do not find it consistent with American democratic ideals to have different classes of citizens and nationals. Exactly. It would be pretty easy, really: Fold everything in the Pacific into Greater Hawai’i (still known as Hawai’i). Fold everthing in the Caribbean into Greater Puerto Rico (still known as Puerto Rico). D.C. we are discussing. PR would be a new state. If the powers that be can’t handle a new democratic state without a new Republican one, divide one of the other states. East California would be reliably Republican, and cut down the size of the most populous state. Not in a sensible way, but refusing to even think about a new state without the D/R balance in the Senate isn’t sensible, either. Taking eastern Oregon & Washington together would make a reliably Republican state, Desert Cascadia. (I suggest splitting the Western states because they are large and overall very Democratic). But like the issues of the penny and the dollar bill, it seems like the US is stuck. We just can’t make big changes like new states anymore. It’s been 57 years since we added Alaska & Hawai’i. Compare that the prior admissions: here’s the list of periods without admitting a new state, longest to shortest: 47 years between admitting Arizona & Alaska (1959) 15 years between admitting Missouri & Arkansas (1836) 13 years between admitting Colorado & the Dakotas, Montana, & Washington (1889) 11 years between admitting Utah & Oklahoma (1906) 9 years between admitting Ohio & Louisiana (1812) and between Nebraska & CO (1886) 8 years between California & Minnesota (1858) and between Michigan & FL (1845) 7 years between Tennessee & Ohio (1803) 5 years between Arizona & New Mexico (1912) All other gaps are 4 years or fewer, which is more or less the average (depending on how you count multiple-admission years). It seems that, collectively, we just won’t move beyond 50 states, ever. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-c-statehood/752421.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-c-statehood/752421.md?page=4)