# D & D got woke and that's good because you should have all been playing that way (or not if you didn't prefer)) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** rpg-dnd-wargames\ **Created:** [February 17, 2021, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-got-woke-and-thats-good-because-you-should-have-all-been-playing-that-way-or-not-if-you-didnt-prefer/933114 "2021-02-17T10:36:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 39
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2022, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-got-woke-and-thats-good-because-you-should-have-all-been-playing-that-way-or-not-if-you-didnt-prefer/933114/761 "2022-09-14T14:57:16Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I honestly have no idea what they’re thinking and what they hope to accomplish. In traditional D&D, trolls are the enemies you fight with fire and acid. For NuTSR, they’re the customer. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2022, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-got-woke-and-thats-good-because-you-should-have-all-been-playing-that-way-or-not-if-you-didnt-prefer/933114/762 "2022-09-14T14:57:53Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > In traditional D&D, trolls are the enemies you fight with fire and acid. For NuTSR, they’re the customer. Fire and acid still work. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2022, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-got-woke-and-thats-good-because-you-should-have-all-been-playing-that-way-or-not-if-you-didnt-prefer/933114/763 "2022-09-14T15:59:59Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > They like to make claims that they’re being bullied by big bad WotC and they’ve got Ernie Gygax attached to them somehow. I don’t think Ernie is associated with them anymore. Not that Ernie Gygax isn’t a piece of shit in his own right, but IIRC he got forced out some time last year. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2022, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-got-woke-and-thats-good-because-you-should-have-all-been-playing-that-way-or-not-if-you-didnt-prefer/933114/764 "2022-09-14T16:29:42Z")
TSR LLC was only founded in June last year, was he forced out after that? Can’t find anything online about that. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2022, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-got-woke-and-thats-good-because-you-should-have-all-been-playing-that-way-or-not-if-you-didnt-prefer/933114/765 "2022-09-14T17:03:48Z")
No, my mistake. I had a dim recollection, Googled, and then didn’t bother to click the links. Turns out headlines like “TSR Games cuts business ties with Ernest G. Gygax, Jr. and second RPG publisher calling itself TSR,” was getting truncated to just " TSR Games cuts business ties with Ernest G. Gygax, Jr." in my search results. Gygax and that “second publisher calling itself TSR” are still together as far as I know, and are currently the only company using the trademark, as TSR Games rebranded as Solarian Games, to distance themselves from the controversy. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2022, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-got-woke-and-thats-good-because-you-should-have-all-been-playing-that-way-or-not-if-you-didnt-prefer/933114/766 "2022-09-14T17:28:08Z")
There’s a somewhat convoluted history behind companies using the TSR name. There was a TSR(2), and someone they ended up losing the name and the current NuTSR started using it instead. It’s odd. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2022, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-got-woke-and-thats-good-because-you-should-have-all-been-playing-that-way-or-not-if-you-didnt-prefer/933114/767 "2022-09-14T17:41:43Z")
It seems that right now Wizards of the Coast and TSR LLC have a series of dueling applications for registration of various TSR trademarks pending before the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2022, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-got-woke-and-thats-good-because-you-should-have-all-been-playing-that-way-or-not-if-you-didnt-prefer/933114/768 "2022-09-14T17:50:07Z")
Yikes! Yeah, nothing subtle or implicit about the racism there. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2022, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-got-woke-and-thats-good-because-you-should-have-all-been-playing-that-way-or-not-if-you-didnt-prefer/933114/769 "2022-09-18T01:26:13Z")
Yep. Apparently Ernies parter is a huge racist & bigot. Here is more of the story: > **[TSR - The Full & Glorious History of NuTSR](https://www.enworld.org/threads/the-full-glorious-history-of-nutsr.684697/)** > > Because the Saga of TSR3 has been ongoing for a while, with many landmarks, I thought I'd do a quick timeline for those who haven't had the time (or, frankly, inclination) to keep up with the whole palaver. > > As multiple entities refer to themselves... Has the exact quote. Unbelievable. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2022, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-got-woke-and-thats-good-because-you-should-have-all-been-playing-that-way-or-not-if-you-didnt-prefer/933114/770 "2022-09-19T21:20:17Z")
I was reading some reviews on Amazon about Candlekeep, and Radiant Citadel. WotC was spammed by one star anti-woke reviews. Several had hundreds of “helpful” votes. The anti-woke bigot movement out there is pretty strong. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2022, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-got-woke-and-thats-good-because-you-should-have-all-been-playing-that-way-or-not-if-you-didnt-prefer/933114/771 "2022-09-20T18:51:01Z")
Do you think it’s mostly actual D&D players who don’t like the changes or unaffiliated right wing trolls? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2022, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-got-woke-and-thats-good-because-you-should-have-all-been-playing-that-way-or-not-if-you-didnt-prefer/933114/772 "2022-09-20T19:05:08Z")
From what I saw, some of the reviews are done by actual bigots who are D&D players, but my WAG is that most of the helpful votes are due to “unaffiliated right wing trolls”. But I saw some reviews that were more of less “More Woke garbage”, and they also had lots of helpful votes. I reported some. I see that also on Amazon reviews for their TV shows- “Cuffs” and “The Outlaws”. Someone told me that on some troll bigot group they post the book. show, whatever that they feel is “eviiiiil woke garbage” to get lost of supports "Neg bombing. They do that on IMDB too. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2022, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-got-woke-and-thats-good-because-you-should-have-all-been-playing-that-way-or-not-if-you-didnt-prefer/933114/773 "2022-09-20T19:07:45Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > They do that on IMDB too. Case in point: > **[Little Man (2006) - Ratings - IMDb](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0430304/ratings/?ref_=tt_ov_rt)** > > Little Man (2006) - Movies, TV, Celebs, and more... ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2022, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-got-woke-and-thats-good-because-you-should-have-all-been-playing-that-way-or-not-if-you-didnt-prefer/933114/774 "2022-09-20T19:17:34Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Do you think it’s mostly actual D&D players who don’t like the changes or unaffiliated right wing trolls? One of the dismaying/heartening things in recent years has been nerds waking up to the amount of bigotry in their hobbies. Dismaying because there’s a shit-ton of bigoted nerds, but heartening because a lot of nerds are fighting back. I have no trouble believing that there are way too many assholes playing my favorite game. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2022, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-got-woke-and-thats-good-because-you-should-have-all-been-playing-that-way-or-not-if-you-didnt-prefer/933114/775 "2022-09-20T19:17:47Z")
Well, that film _was_ bad. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2022, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-got-woke-and-thats-good-because-you-should-have-all-been-playing-that-way-or-not-if-you-didnt-prefer/933114/776 "2022-09-20T19:20:38Z")
What am I missing? That movie looks horrible. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2022, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-got-woke-and-thats-good-because-you-should-have-all-been-playing-that-way-or-not-if-you-didnt-prefer/933114/777 "2022-09-20T19:21:09Z")
All those 10s are from people countering the 1s and some of both were there before the movie was even released. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2022, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-got-woke-and-thats-good-because-you-should-have-all-been-playing-that-way-or-not-if-you-didnt-prefer/933114/778 "2022-09-20T19:32:16Z")
I am sorry if I am being dense but the film got 12% on Rotten Tomatoes. Why would a troll give that movie a 1 rating? There doesn’t seem to be a politically correctness issue. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2022, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-got-woke-and-thats-good-because-you-should-have-all-been-playing-that-way-or-not-if-you-didnt-prefer/933114/779 "2022-09-20T19:33:26Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Do you think it’s mostly actual D&D players who don’t like the changes or unaffiliated right wing trolls? Nerdery is positively **stuffed** with poorly socialized bigots who have internalized a narrative that the world is out to get them. They’re the ones who have driven narratives about “fake gamer girls” and “fake nerd girls.” They’re the ones who have driven the backlashes against POC winning the Hugo awards. And on and on. So yeah. Lots of overlap between bigots and nerds. The good news is that the younger nerds are much more inclusive and cool. Roleplaying games are increasingly about freedom of expression and creativity and less about finding justifications for slaughtering goblin babies or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2022, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-got-woke-and-thats-good-because-you-should-have-all-been-playing-that-way-or-not-if-you-didnt-prefer/933114/780 "2022-09-20T19:36:13Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > They’re the ones who have driven narratives about “fake gamer girls” and “fake nerd girls.” I always suspected that was it. “Girls are just threatened by my towering intellect and my vast knowledge of Pokemon.” “Hi! I couldn’t help overhearing. I’m a Mensa member and professional lingerie model. And I own one of every Pokemon product ever made.” “You’re a fake nerd!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-got-woke-and-thats-good-because-you-should-have-all-been-playing-that-way-or-not-if-you-didnt-prefer/933114.md?page=38) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-got-woke-and-thats-good-because-you-should-have-all-been-playing-that-way-or-not-if-you-didnt-prefer/933114.md?page=40)