# D & D got woke and that's good because you should have all been playing that way (or not if you didn't prefer)) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** rpg-dnd-wargames\ **Created:** [February 17, 2021, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-got-woke-and-thats-good-because-you-should-have-all-been-playing-that-way-or-not-if-you-didnt-prefer/933114 "2021-02-17T10:36:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 59
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2025, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-got-woke-and-thats-good-because-you-should-have-all-been-playing-that-way-or-not-if-you-didnt-prefer/933114/1161 "2025-11-25T16:57:15Z")
As Bilbo in _The Hobbit_ was the first to discover, two or three pack ponies laden with gold and gems is the practical limit for how much treasure one person can carry away. Beyond that it just doesn’t materially help you unless you’re a king financing an army (or unless a usually priceless magical item can for once be had for mere money). ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2025, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-got-woke-and-thats-good-because-you-should-have-all-been-playing-that-way-or-not-if-you-didnt-prefer/933114/1162 "2025-11-25T18:54:52Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I thought I was taking a brave stance speaking up against XP, but I guess that’s a pretty common stance! Back when most game play was loosely connected dungeon dives and wilderness hex crawls, it made more sense to use a point system as there wasn’t really logical points for advancement. You advanced once you did enough “stuff”. With modern games usually being story/plot based, you have something more like chapters to close off with a new level as you prepare for the next part of the campaign story. It’s not totally without reproach. I feel less like I “earned” a level when I know it was preordained once we hit a certain point regardless of how many encounters we had or how we handled them. It’s still generally an easier and superior system though in my opinion. In regards to gold, I’m currently in a Pathfinder 2e game and we’re still coveting gold at 15th level between spell scribing costs, rune switching, crafting magical items and the occasional hat pass for the “home base improvement fund”. We’re not a bunch of church mice but my character was the only one remotely flush for most of the game because I had the fewest expenses but even that went into the hole this last level when I decided to splurge on a few new magical trinkets. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2025, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-got-woke-and-thats-good-because-you-should-have-all-been-playing-that-way-or-not-if-you-didnt-prefer/933114/1163 "2025-11-25T18:58:00Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > As Bilbo in _The Hobbit_ was the first to discover, two or three pack ponies laden with gold and gems is the practical limit for how much treasure one person can carry away. Not in a setting with _portable holes_ and _bags of holding_, it’s not. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2025, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-got-woke-and-thats-good-because-you-should-have-all-been-playing-that-way-or-not-if-you-didnt-prefer/933114/1164 "2025-11-25T20:18:19Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Back when most game play was loosely connected dungeon dives and wilderness hex crawls, it made more sense to use a point system as there wasn’t really logical points for advancement. You advanced once you did enough “stuff”. Except back in the day you had to spend your gold to get training to advance a level. It wasn’t enough to have experience points, you had to spend your hard earned gold on training. Odds are you weren’t going to find a sensi in the wilderness, you were going to have to have to find one in a town. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2025, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-got-woke-and-thats-good-because-you-should-have-all-been-playing-that-way-or-not-if-you-didnt-prefer/933114/1165 "2025-11-25T20:33:05Z")
[Hence…](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cities:_A_Gamemaster%27s_Guide_to_Encounters_and_Other_Rules_For_Fantasy_Games) ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2025, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-got-woke-and-thats-good-because-you-should-have-all-been-playing-that-way-or-not-if-you-didnt-prefer/933114/1166 "2025-11-25T20:42:55Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > some DMs like to play with that, plus also counting ammo and encumbrance. Mind you, we do track special ammo and if a small character wants to carry a large chest, or several polearms, we do question that. Unless one of your party is this guy: [https://youtu.be/\_9JONJG6KSU?t=31](https://youtu.be/_9JONJG6KSU?t=31) ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2025, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-got-woke-and-thats-good-because-you-should-have-all-been-playing-that-way-or-not-if-you-didnt-prefer/933114/1167 "2025-11-25T20:55:59Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Odds are you weren’t going to find a sensi in the wilderness, you were going to have to have to find one in a town. Sure, but you were likely headed to town between adventures to rest up and re-equip anyway and certainly didn’t level after each dungeon. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2025, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-got-woke-and-thats-good-because-you-should-have-all-been-playing-that-way-or-not-if-you-didnt-prefer/933114/1168 "2025-11-25T20:58:25Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Unless one of your party is this guy _The Adventures of Baron Munchausen_ , eh? I thought it was a pretty good film, but opinions vary greatly. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2025, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-got-woke-and-thats-good-because-you-should-have-all-been-playing-that-way-or-not-if-you-didnt-prefer/933114/1169 "2025-11-25T22:01:47Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Not in a setting with _portable holes_ and _bags of holding_, it’s not. And in the relatively high-magic world of default D&D, there’s always some magic item you can buy with your money. The real epic, character-defining loot may require a quest or two, but sometimes, what you really need is a decent set of half-plate +1, which can set you back a cool 5,000 gp at the best of times. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2025, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-got-woke-and-thats-good-because-you-should-have-all-been-playing-that-way-or-not-if-you-didnt-prefer/933114/1170 "2025-11-26T02:34:08Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Back when most game play was loosely connected dungeon dives and wilderness hex crawls, it made more sense to use a point system as there wasn’t really logical points for advancement. You advanced once you did enough “stuff”. With modern games usually being story/plot based, you have something more like chapters to close off with a new level as you prepare for the next part of the campaign story. While I’m generally of the opinion that milestones are easier to deal with, the whole thing with gold and experience and treasure dealt a major blow to organized play around 2019 with changes to WotC’s Adventurers’ League. Then when they finally partially fixed that, covid happened and a lot of games moved online. The combination plus an interest from me in other systems means I haven’t actually played a game of D&D in five plus years, and for a while I was playing at least twice a week. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2025, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-got-woke-and-thats-good-because-you-should-have-all-been-playing-that-way-or-not-if-you-didnt-prefer/933114/1171 "2025-11-26T03:08:36Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > changes to WotC’s Adventurers’ League Last time I played or ran an AL game, it was switching over to “Fuck it, everyone levels whenever they want, I guess” which struck me as basically giving up and was the one small silver lining to Covid killing the local AL scene before the new level rules really became a thing. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2025, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-got-woke-and-thats-good-because-you-should-have-all-been-playing-that-way-or-not-if-you-didnt-prefer/933114/1172 "2025-11-26T14:13:17Z")
The only drawback to milestone leveling is in a system where you can also spend XP on things like item creation and powerful spells. Which is probably part of why 5e moved away from those things. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2025, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-got-woke-and-thats-good-because-you-should-have-all-been-playing-that-way-or-not-if-you-didnt-prefer/933114/1173 "2025-11-26T14:35:40Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The only drawback to milestone leveling is in a system where you can also spend XP on things like item creation and powerful spells. Yeah, back in 3.5 I had to ask groups at the start of the campaign if anyone wanted to go heavily into crafting, and if so we’d use XP, otherwise we wouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2025, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-got-woke-and-thats-good-because-you-should-have-all-been-playing-that-way-or-not-if-you-didnt-prefer/933114/1174 "2025-11-26T14:42:27Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > _The Adventures of Baron Munchausen_ , eh? I thought it was a pretty good film, but opinions vary greatly. I have somewhere the _Baron Munchausen Roleplaying Game_, which is a hoot with the right people. It’s sort of a drinking game, and it goes like this: 1. Everyone adopts a ridiculous European Nobility name –Duchess van der Plinkin and the like. 2. Everyone gets a drink. 3. Someone says, “Oh, Duchess, do tell us the story of the time that…” something bizarre nonsense happened, such as, “…you made your way through the Black Forest using only a fork, a rubber band, and your glass eye!” 4. The Duchess immediately has to launch into that story, with no prep, making it as over-the-top as possible. 5. There’s a betting dynamic, where people can add complications to the story: “Don’t leave out the part about the clockwork squirrel attack!” and the storyteller can accept or refuse the complication, but I forget how that works. 6. The betting dynamic ties into a “buys the next round” part of the game, but I also forget how that works. Tons of fun. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2025, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-got-woke-and-thats-good-because-you-should-have-all-been-playing-that-way-or-not-if-you-didnt-prefer/933114/1175 "2025-11-26T20:53:37Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I have somewhere the _Baron Munchausen Roleplaying Game_, which is a hoot with the right people. Sounds hilarious. I am not much of a drinker, so I sadly likely couldnt get fully into the spirit of it. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2025, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-got-woke-and-thats-good-because-you-should-have-all-been-playing-that-way-or-not-if-you-didnt-prefer/933114/1176 "2025-11-26T21:03:59Z")
Are there bonus points if a player can produce a souvenir from their pocket of the adventure? “Oh, yes, that clockwork squirrel attack was how I got this brass gear!” ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2025, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-got-woke-and-thats-good-because-you-should-have-all-been-playing-that-way-or-not-if-you-didnt-prefer/933114/1177 "2025-11-26T22:20:54Z")
How does crafting something spend XP? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2025, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-got-woke-and-thats-good-because-you-should-have-all-been-playing-that-way-or-not-if-you-didnt-prefer/933114/1178 "2025-11-26T22:38:33Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > How does crafting something spend XP?. > **[Creating Magic Items :: d20srd.org](https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm)** ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2025, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-got-woke-and-thats-good-because-you-should-have-all-been-playing-that-way-or-not-if-you-didnt-prefer/933114/1179 "2025-11-27T00:09:20Z")
I never liked that mechanic. If anything, practicing your magic item crafting skills should make you a better spellcaster, not a worse one. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2025, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-got-woke-and-thats-good-because-you-should-have-all-been-playing-that-way-or-not-if-you-didnt-prefer/933114/1180 "2025-11-27T00:21:14Z")
Spending XP to craft items was a 3rd edition rule. I think that the idea was that you were putting a little bit of yourself into everything you made, and that cost you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-got-woke-and-thats-good-because-you-should-have-all-been-playing-that-way-or-not-if-you-didnt-prefer/933114.md?page=58) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-got-woke-and-thats-good-because-you-should-have-all-been-playing-that-way-or-not-if-you-didnt-prefer/933114.md?page=60)