# D & D on the Straight Dope setup thread. (In Middle Earth FA63) **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Tags:** middle-earth-game\ **Created:** [February 26, 2008, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-on-the-straight-dope-setup-thread-in-middle-earth-fa63/439276 "2008-02-26T20:17:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 63
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-on-the-straight-dope-setup-thread-in-middle-earth-fa63/439276/1241 "2008-10-15T19:27:31Z")
> [@RogueRacer](#): > > Yesterday I was catching up on the game thread. I got to the bit about both swords increasing their glow. There were plenty of responses left to read, another page actually, so I knew I was doomed. Orcs were coming and Elfstan had been asleep at the wheel. I then find the post where the swords flared brightly. Crap! I skimmed the rest of the posts hoping that Elfstan and Curunauth hadn’t already been eaten. > > They hadn’t, so I get in a post to run for the hills… err… camp. I check back in a few and all heck is breaking loose. Elfstan has to decide between a suicidal looking battle and abandoning Curunauth to try to make it back to camp. Meanwhile, in real life I was getting ready to meet some friends for drinks. What to do? I made myself a little late for drinks making that last response. I then end up spending the evening wondering what happened to Elfstan. Nicely done, **What Exit?**! > > When I got home, the first thing I did was jumped on my computer to read the thread. I was a little shocked when Curunauth went down. Riglo he is not! Today I find out that those last four orcs were the leader and his three body guards. :smack: > > So, any truth to Elfstan’s hypothesis that Sting’s glow cancels out a Hobbit’s natural luck? 😉 Sorry about that, but the main introduction on Curunauth was that he needs to be protected from himself. He is fairly old, much older than Gil-Gandel, hell his father, Celebrimbor, died over 4800 years ago. Despite his age he is the Middle Earth equivalent to an Engineering Geek and a bit of an absent minded professor. His hit points are roughly the same as yours. He is only skilled with his long sword. (That he actually forged himself.) He is actually very good with his one weapon. In game terms, I am fine that a young Hobbit’s curiosity overcame his better judgment. It fits well. As to Sting betraying you twice now there is some truth, but this one was not of my doing. I never expected for you to go along with Curunauth. 🙂 This is a good example why the Queen herself took an interest in getting him an escort. ---
**Author:** ![RogueRacer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7ab992/32.png) [@RogueRacer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RogueRacer)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-on-the-straight-dope-setup-thread-in-middle-earth-fa63/439276/1242 "2008-10-15T19:39:44Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > In game terms, I am fine that a young Hobbit’s curiosity overcame his better judgment. It fits well. As to Sting betraying you twice now there is some truth, but this one was not of my doing. I never expected for you to go along with Curunauth. 🙂 Ahh yes, Elfstan did go along with him, didn’t he? How come I’m picturing the DM doing the Montgomery Burns hand rub along with an evil laugh as the young Hobbit fell for that one? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-on-the-straight-dope-setup-thread-in-middle-earth-fa63/439276/1243 "2008-10-15T19:55:57Z")
> [@RogueRacer](#): > > Ahh yes, Elfstan did go along with him, didn’t he? How come I’m picturing the DM doing the Montgomery Burns hand rub along with an evil laugh as the young Hobbit fell for that one? 😃 You might find this a bit hard to believe, but I was really hoping someone would stop the two of you. Those were some very tough wargs. They were the four strongest. I would prefer not to lose Curunauth though I am not protecting him anymore than having the party protect him. He will be a good ally in Rivendell if you can get him safely home. I know Thoroncir already has a commission for him. That little side conversation has consequences I did not expect. On the bright side, you protected Miron and Mulligan who were also at risk and even further out. Though they probably could have handled the 4 warg riders a little better. One being a Ranger and the other with those fancy bullets. ---
**Author:** ![RogueRacer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7ab992/32.png) [@RogueRacer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RogueRacer)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-on-the-straight-dope-setup-thread-in-middle-earth-fa63/439276/1244 "2008-10-15T20:21:33Z")
Oh, I believe you. Reading back through the thread, I’m pretty surprised that I just went along with it. It seems that I let my guard down by not questioning the wisdom of an NPC that we know has questionable wisdom. Ahh well… In deciding to fight or flee, it did seem that losing Curunauth could make our visit to Rivendell a little icy to say the least. The orcs didn’t bother me with the two blades we have, but the wargs were another story. It was basically 8 against 2 without us having a tank. In the end though with Elfstan sharing some of Samwise’s morals along with his fascination with elves, I just couldn’t see him abandoning Curunauth. It was fun getting to use the “Fear! Fire! Foes! Awake!” quote! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-on-the-straight-dope-setup-thread-in-middle-earth-fa63/439276/1245 "2008-10-15T20:45:49Z")
> [@RogueRacer](#): > > Oh, I believe you. Reading back through the thread, I’m pretty surprised that I just went along with it. It seems that I let my guard down by not questioning the wisdom of an NPC that we know has questionable wisdom. Ahh well… > > In deciding to fight or flee, it did seem that losing Curunauth could make our visit to Rivendell a little icy to say the least. The orcs didn’t bother me with the two blades we have, but the wargs were another story. It was basically 8 against 2 without us having a tank. In the end though with Elfstan sharing some of Samwise’s morals along with his fascination with elves, I just couldn’t see him abandoning Curunauth. > > It was fun getting to use the “Fear! Fire! Foes! Awake!” quote! 🙂 Nice use of the Elven phrases too. You made me go digging to find some proper responses. ---
**Author:** ![BooBoo316](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e0b2c6/32.png) [@BooBoo316](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BooBoo316)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-on-the-straight-dope-setup-thread-in-middle-earth-fa63/439276/1246 "2008-10-16T06:19:08Z")
Just another post from the peanut gallery, but I know my suspense during battles would be enhanced if I knew the damage vs hit points remaining ratio. I can’t tell if 9 points is something I should be worried about, but the descriptions help a lot. Lol, I was actually worried about Elfstan during that last battle, but I found myself wondering “How many hit points does he have left?”. Then I thought “the Bearer of Sting can’t die” and remembered some of my old D&D days and thought “Yep, he might if the DM calls it fair”. I am greatly enjoying following the story. This is bringing back soooo many happy memories of playing with friends in my youth (sadly, I don’t have the time to devote to it now). ---
**Author:** ![RogueRacer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7ab992/32.png) [@RogueRacer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RogueRacer)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-on-the-straight-dope-setup-thread-in-middle-earth-fa63/439276/1247 "2008-10-16T17:54:42Z")
> [@BooBoo316](#): > > I can’t tell if 9 points is something I should be worried about, but the descriptions help a lot. Lol, I was actually worried about Elfstan during that last battle, but I found myself wondering “How many hit points does he have left?”. Then I thought “the Bearer of Sting can’t die” and remembered some of my old D&D days and thought “Yep, he might if the DM calls it fair”. Thanks for checking in! As I mentioned, I was worried about Elfstan too! I’m not sure if Jim ( **What Exit?** ) minds if the actual character hit point numbers are known or not, so I won’t tell you Elfstan’s exact hit points without his leave. I will say that another bad round and he could have been in the dirt with Curunauth. While I think it would pain Jim to kill off one of the Hobbits (or any of the other characters), I’m sure he would if that’s how it played out. He runs other LotR based games too. I was going to say that it’s not like Elfstan would be totally gone, that he would just be gone in this version of Middle Earth. Remembering some other things Jim has said though, he might just be running one world with various parties playing in it. Now I feel more pressure not to do something (else) stupid with the heir to Samwise. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-on-the-straight-dope-setup-thread-in-middle-earth-fa63/439276/1248 "2008-10-16T18:17:34Z")
> [@RogueRacer](#): > > Thanks for checking in! > > As I mentioned, I was worried about Elfstan too! I’m not sure if Jim ( **What Exit?** ) minds if the actual character hit point numbers are known or not, so I won’t tell you Elfstan’s exact hit points without his leave. I will say that another bad round and he could have been in the dirt with Curunauth. > > While I think it would pain Jim to kill off one of the Hobbits (or any of the other characters), I’m sure he would if that’s how it played out. He runs other LotR based games too. I was going to say that it’s not like Elfstan would be totally gone, that he would just be gone in this version of Middle Earth. Remembering some other things Jim has said though, he might just be running one world with various parties playing in it. Now I feel more pressure not to do something (else) stupid with the heir to Samwise. Elfstan has no major history that would be blasted by his death; it is not like I let you play Eldarion Telcontar. Moose I admitted was protected and Eldarion, Arwen, Aragorn, Legolas & Gimli are protected. Not even Merry and Pippin are as the date of their death is not even recorded. In fact something major is about to happen with Merry that I never expected. A player in the table top game generously did something that I could never have foreseen or expected. No PC is immune to disaster or death, but I am also far from a killer DM. As Glee pointed out to me, I gave more than adequate hints for Elfstan to not go off with Curunauth. If Gil-Gandel did not charge over on horseback, we might have lost one or the other. Thoroncir’s heart was in the right place but he was slower and did not have a great chance to head the correct direction without errors. As to showing stats to others, that is completely up to the players. As the ref, I will not share them without permission, but I believe at least two players have initial copies of Deor as an example. So if any players wish to share HP or AC or stats or anything else, please feel free to especially here. Now we need some posts in the game thread so we can reach Tharbad. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![RogueRacer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7ab992/32.png) [@RogueRacer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RogueRacer)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-on-the-straight-dope-setup-thread-in-middle-earth-fa63/439276/1249 "2008-10-16T18:25:32Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > In fact something major is about to happen with Merry that I never expected. A player in the table top game generously did something that I could never have foreseen or expected. They treated a NPC like a real character?! 😃 It seems that I did remember correctly though, you run one world with multiple games taking place in it, right? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-on-the-straight-dope-setup-thread-in-middle-earth-fa63/439276/1250 "2008-10-16T18:39:28Z")
> [@RogueRacer](#): > > They treated a NPC like a real character?! 😃 > > It seems that I did remember correctly though, you run one world with multiple games taking place in it, right? This is the first time in 20 years, but I have two games running currently in the same time-line and their actions effect the future equally. Way back when I had a game on a West Pac with 20+ players and junior refs. Players would move between the three primary parties in the world. It was insane, but fun and we had a huge amount of time as we were in the middle of a continuous 110 days at sea. As to your first sentence, I don’t think I am spoiling anything by giving this away. The other party met Merry in Minas Tirith. He was very helpful escorting them into town and up to see the Prince and Queen. A member of the party saw how bad off Pippin was and gave him a Longevity Potion. This was after stressing how incredibly rare they are and that he was of a relatively short lived Beorning race. In talking they realized that Merry was still an active adventurer not that long ago and much more agile than Pippin who was still in retirement mode even with the Longevity potion. So he sold his last longevity to Merry at a very fair price and Merry is actually with them as an adventurer. Though this has happened in the other game, it will happen in your near future but long before you will be back in Minas Tirith. Needless to say your characters do not and cannot know this, but I don’t think it hurts for the players to know. Heck, technically the players in my other table-top game can read nearly everything happening in this game except for the PMs and Emails. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-on-the-straight-dope-setup-thread-in-middle-earth-fa63/439276/1251 "2008-10-16T23:12:54Z")
That’s very cool, Jim. Thanks for telling us that. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-on-the-straight-dope-setup-thread-in-middle-earth-fa63/439276/1252 "2008-10-17T00:00:50Z")
Very cool. It’d be especially fun if any long-term story arcs evolve in this Middle-Earth that would include both parties. But I suppose that a group that plays live moves faster than we do. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-on-the-straight-dope-setup-thread-in-middle-earth-fa63/439276/1253 "2008-10-17T00:31:31Z")
Another question, actually- how are we integrating the existence of human wizardry in this world? Tolkien certainly didn’t have it, so is this something that has fundamentally changed in Middle-Earth, or is there a long-standing tradition of non-demigod\* wizardry here? The latter seems problematic, since we’d have expected their intervention in the War of the Ring, while the former gives very little time for a tradition of wizardry to grow. Also, is there a relationship between the various schools of wizardry you mentioned in the first post here (Minas Tirith, Dol Amroth, Ithilien, Fornost and Umbar) amongst one another or in relation to Gandalf? Should I expect to find wildly different magics if I find a wizard from another school? \*Is that a fair word to apply to the Maiar? They’re well above the human (I include Elves, Dwarves, Hobbits, and probably Orcs in that term), but apparently mortal, at least in the sense that they can be killed, even if they seem not to age. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-on-the-straight-dope-setup-thread-in-middle-earth-fa63/439276/1254 "2008-10-17T00:43:25Z")
> [@appleciders](#): > > Very cool. It’d be especially fun if any long-term story arcs evolve in this Middle-Earth that would include both parties. But I suppose that a group that plays live moves faster than we do. It varies a lot. They do a lot in a single Friday night and might miss a week or two. Other nights we have spent the entire night on a single battle. On the other hand this group can occasionally spend weeks on one battle so it does vary a huge amount. It is possible for things to sync up for a brief duration and you have met some of the same people already. Ghân actually know Bjorn the Beorning Druid in the other party. Mulligan’s brother Ponto Took is an NPC that is currently with them and has been before. Hodwain was the impetus for them heading down to Minas Tirith to get help. Both parties have met Arwen and Eldarion. One of Gilraen’s teachers is with them currently to heal. Merry & Gimli are with them know and were with you for your first adventure. Of course they got to meet Miron’s Lord, Legolas and Miron probably knows the elf of Thranduil’s kingdom that they have adventured with from the start. Bokken, the captain of the guard that lost both the 13 Dwarves and later Gollum. He had another recent screw up and decided to become an adventurer. Of course he has now realized a life long dream. He is a minor hero to the Lord of the Dorwinion. He is expecting much of their strong wine to be flowing his way. As far as hooking up, it would have to be in a large battle where the two groups would not directly interact most of the time. [QUOTE=appleciders] Another question, actually- how are we integrating the existence of human wizardry in this world? Tolkien certainly didn’t have it, so is this something that has fundamentally changed in Middle-Earth, or is there a long-standing tradition of non-demigod\* wizardry here? The latter seems problematic, since we’d have expected their intervention in the War of the Ring, while the former gives very little time for a tradition of wizardry to grow. Also, is there a relationship between the various schools of wizardry you mentioned in the first post here (Minas Tirith, Dol Amroth, Ithilien, Fornost and Umbar) amongst one another or in relation to Gandalf? Should I expect to find wildly different magics if I find a wizard from another school? \*Is that a fair word to apply to the Maiar? They’re well above the human (I include Elves, Dwarves, Hobbits, and probably Orcs in that term), but apparently mortal, at least in the sense that they can be killed, even if they seem not to age. [/QUOTE] Good question and not an easy fit. There has always been wizards and sorcerers. The Black Numenoreans had many among their numbers. Minas Tirith actually has a small guild now and it is causing an increase in numbers. They numbers are still rare. The average person has no idea that Gandalf and Sauruman were actual Angels or minor gods in human guise. It is generally thought they were ancient humans that learned the secrets of long life. Many black ages had learn some ways but always at great cost. There appears to have been a great mistrusts and lack of safe teaching for Good Mages to coexist but Aragorn and Faramir knew and trusted a Wizard and offered protection to good mages to learn, experiment and grow. Umbar had Wizards of all ilks. Dol Amroth and Fornost each have but one or two White Wizards and no more. As to different schools, every White Wizard you know of have spells and powers like yours but you have heard that to the South East are masters of illusions, Wizards that specialize purely in fire and of course necromancers, sorcerers and other dark witches and wizards. Ultimately Wizards and alchemist do not fit neatly into this world and they have been jammed in for game play. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-on-the-straight-dope-setup-thread-in-middle-earth-fa63/439276/1255 "2008-10-17T04:09:54Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Elfstan has no major history that would be blasted by his death; it is not like I let you play Eldarion Telcontar. Moose I admitted was protected and Eldarion, Arwen, Aragorn, Legolas & Gimli are protected. Not even Merry and Pippin are as the date of their death is not even recorded… Gilraen is conspicuous by her absence from this list. Now I’m gonna be even MORE careful! :eek: 😃 ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-on-the-straight-dope-setup-thread-in-middle-earth-fa63/439276/1256 "2008-10-17T12:37:09Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Gilraen is conspicuous by her absence from this list. Now I’m gonna be even MORE careful! :eek: 😃 Remember she never even had a name in any of my worlds before you pursued this. She was just daughter number 2 of 4. Probably destined for marriage to some Prince. In fact in one game I think daughter number 2 actually married one of Faramir’s sons as a footnote to the Noble of the world. ---
**Author:** ![Eureka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/74df32/32.png) [@Eureka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eureka)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-on-the-straight-dope-setup-thread-in-middle-earth-fa63/439276/1257 "2008-10-17T13:44:44Z")
Notes from the Peanut Gallery: I was amused by the recent bit ending with the petting of the invisible purring cat. Partly I was amused by Ghan’s suggestion that petting a hawk might be soothing in a way which petting his furry friends would not be (not that petting Fang or Anca would be particularily soothing). But mostly I was amused because I’ve petted an invisible purring cat. Or at least, it looked that way from the other side of the campfire. I was dressed in all black, with a black cat on my lap, petting it. Someone on the other side of the campfire asked what I was doing–he couldn’t see the cat, but could see the hand making the petting motions, and was puzzled. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-on-the-straight-dope-setup-thread-in-middle-earth-fa63/439276/1258 "2008-10-17T14:27:29Z")
Waves to Peanut Gallery. I can clearly picture the scene you just described **Eureka**. You put a big smile on my face. > [@Middle Earth FA63 D&D Game. Fourth Adventure. Journey to Rivendell](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-earth-fa63-d-d-game-fourth-adventure-journey-to-rivendell/464375/469): > > The King’s Inns are an interesting idea. Any historical precedent for that - the Romans, maybe? Also sounds a bit like the small stone strongholds that one of the English kings - Edward III? - erected all over Wales to help pacify its people. The inspiration is a combination of the Roman Road system and King Edward I’s\* Castle Building to defend his lands from the Welsh. The Romans were much more about using repetitive design and pre-made plans so the cookie cutter King’s Inns add to the efficiency in building and maintaining. King Elessar’s program is both more and less ambitious. He is not dealing with a hostile countryside for the most part and his structures are much smaller than Edward’s 10 Welsh Castles. However, he is building far more than 10 and the roads to connect them. Of course he has a larger Kingdom and Dwarven help. Just a reminder, try to place questions like this in the setup thread instead. It is an interesting subject and I wouldn’t be surprised by a lot more input from other players. - You were extremely close. Well done for an American. King Edward I was actually known as “The King who built castles”. I suspect our British players know far more about Edward than I do. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-on-the-straight-dope-setup-thread-in-middle-earth-fa63/439276/1259 "2008-10-17T14:39:41Z")
> [@Eureka](#): > > Notes from the Peanut Gallery: > > I was amused by the recent bit ending with the petting of the invisible purring cat. > > Partly I was amused by Ghan’s suggestion that petting a hawk might be soothing in a way which petting his furry friends would not be (not that petting Fang or Anca would be particularily soothing). Yoo-hoo, Peanut Gallery! 🙂 Ghân suggested the hawk because Doer has complete control over it. Also (in real life) we have a hawk and owl sanctuary near me. People are generally fascinated by these amazing fliers, so I though it would help. ---
**Author:** ![Eureka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/74df32/32.png) [@Eureka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eureka)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-on-the-straight-dope-setup-thread-in-middle-earth-fa63/439276/1260 "2008-10-17T14:45:17Z")
> [@glee](#): > > Yoo-hoo, Peanut Gallery! 🙂 > > Ghân suggested the hawk because Doer has complete control over it. > > Also (in real life) we have a hawk and owl sanctuary near me. People are generally fascinated by these amazing fliers, so I though it would help. It’s not a bad suggestion–especially from Ghan. It’s just amusing to me because hawks are fascinating but not particularily cuddle-y. ETA: Then again, I’m not much of a bird person, bird watcher? maybe, but bird lover, not so much. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-on-the-straight-dope-setup-thread-in-middle-earth-fa63/439276.md?page=62) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-on-the-straight-dope-setup-thread-in-middle-earth-fa63/439276.md?page=64)