# D & D on the Straight Dope setup thread. (In Middle Earth FA63) **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Tags:** middle-earth-game\ **Created:** [February 26, 2008, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-on-the-straight-dope-setup-thread-in-middle-earth-fa63/439276 "2008-02-26T20:17:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 64
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-on-the-straight-dope-setup-thread-in-middle-earth-fa63/439276/1261 "2008-10-17T14:45:44Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > King Edward I was actually known as “The King who built castles”. I suspect our British players know far more about Edward than I do. This particular Brit got fed up at school when told to memorise the dates of birth and death of all the English Monarchs. (I lost interest in them after that.) But there certainly are castles dotted about our country, and very impressive they are too. > [@What\_Exit](#): > > No PC is immune to disaster or death, but I am also far from a killer DM. You’re a hard-working DM who specialises in a good background. 🆒 You’re also a big softie! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-on-the-straight-dope-setup-thread-in-middle-earth-fa63/439276/1262 "2008-10-17T14:56:57Z")
> [@glee](#): > > This particular Brit got fed up at school when told to memorise the dates of birth and death of all the English Monarchs. (I lost interest in them after that.) Just a quick question, is the use of Brit at all offensive? I assume it is not but sometimes I get caught off guard by what is a potentially offensive word. Hopefully it is an acceptable term. As to your lovely countryside and castles, I can’t wait to get back over again in a few years. I was in Scotland far too long ago now. My wife and I took our Honeymoon for 17 glorious days in Scotland and the Lake Country. We did our own tour by car and B&B. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-on-the-straight-dope-setup-thread-in-middle-earth-fa63/439276/1263 "2008-10-17T17:37:05Z")
I’ve been to the UK three times, mostly in London and nearby, but also brief trips through Wales, the Lake Country, Devon and Cornwall. My wife and I met on a college semester abroad in London (she’s from Vermont). I’d love to get back someday. ---
**Author:** ![CatInASuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3be4f8/32.png) [@CatInASuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CatInASuit)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-on-the-straight-dope-setup-thread-in-middle-earth-fa63/439276/1264 "2008-10-18T21:19:23Z")
Most people can live with Brit from the tourists. Just don’t start getting English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish mixed up. That way, trouble lies. Good old, Edward I aka Longshanks aka Hammer of the Scots. Mel Gibson got it so horribly, horribly wrong in Braveheart. The Welsh castles are beautiful though, with Harlech being my personal favourite. There is some of his works in London as well. Part of the Tower of London modifications are his. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-on-the-straight-dope-setup-thread-in-middle-earth-fa63/439276/1265 "2008-10-18T23:32:02Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Just a quick question, is the use of Brit at all offensive? I assume it is not but sometimes I get caught off guard by what is a potentially offensive word. Hopefully it is an acceptable term. > > As to your lovely countryside and castles, I can’t wait to get back over again in a few years. I was in Scotland far too long ago now. My wife and I took our Honeymoon for 17 glorious days in Scotland and the Lake Country. We did our own tour by car and B&B. We have [Brit Awards for music](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_BRIT_Awards), so there should be no problem. As CatInASuit indicated, it’s polite to know the difference between English and British. (There are pitfalls over Ireland too.) ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-on-the-straight-dope-setup-thread-in-middle-earth-fa63/439276/1266 "2008-10-18T23:46:20Z")
> [@glee](#): > > We have [Brit Awards for music](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_BRIT_Awards), so there should be no problem. > > As CatInASuit indicated, it’s polite to know the difference between English and British. > (There are pitfalls over Ireland too.) What is the difference between English and British? I thought they were approximately the same. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2008, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-on-the-straight-dope-setup-thread-in-middle-earth-fa63/439276/1267 "2008-10-19T01:28:30Z")
I suspect I have minutia wrong here, but I think that British refers to a person from anywhere on the island of Britain (but not Ireland), while English refers to a British person from the parts of Britain that are not Scotland or Wales. EDIT: And as usual, Wikipedia has a good breakdown in [Venn diagram](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminology_of_the_British_Isles) format. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2008, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-on-the-straight-dope-setup-thread-in-middle-earth-fa63/439276/1268 "2008-10-19T07:03:45Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > What is the difference between English and British? I thought they were approximately the same. You would be promptly disabused of this notion the first time you called a Scotsman or a Welshman “English”, trust me. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2008, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-on-the-straight-dope-setup-thread-in-middle-earth-fa63/439276/1269 "2008-10-19T08:36:39Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > What is the difference between English and British? I thought they were approximately the same. Appleciders has it right. Because of historical wars and alliances, we now have here: 5 major ‘areas’, each with history, tradition and identity: **England** / **Scotland** / **Wales** / \*\*Northern Ireland \*\*/ **Eire** (=Southern Ireland) 4 ‘groupings’ **Great Britain** = England + Scotland + Wales (forming the big island; no other significance) **United Kingdom** = Great Britain + Northern Ireland (one ‘country’, but with several Parliaments) **British Isles** = United Kingdom + Eire + small islands (such as Isle of Man) (geographical grouping only) **British Islands** = British Isles + Channel islands (most Brits wouldn’t know the difference) Apologies for all the confusion. :o At various times there were Unions between England and Scotland / Wales / Ireland, but then Eire went independent. ---
**Author:** ![BooBoo316](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e0b2c6/32.png) [@BooBoo316](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BooBoo316)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2008, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-on-the-straight-dope-setup-thread-in-middle-earth-fa63/439276/1270 "2008-10-19T12:05:37Z")
This is one of the reasons I love the SDMB, not only do I get a top-noch RPG experience…I also get some great cultural information as well. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2008, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-on-the-straight-dope-setup-thread-in-middle-earth-fa63/439276/1271 "2008-10-19T12:25:27Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > [QUOTE=What Exit?] > What is the difference between English and British? I thought they were approximately the same. You would be promptly disabused of this notion the first time you called a Scotsman or a Welshman “English”, trust me. 😃 [/QUOTE] I never would have, but my confusion was from the other direction. I would never have called a Scotsman or a Welshman a Brit. I thought the Brits were those that were (more or less) native to the land south of Hadrian’s Wall and East of Wales and possibly excepting Cornishmen. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2008, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-on-the-straight-dope-setup-thread-in-middle-earth-fa63/439276/1272 "2008-10-19T17:36:11Z")
These sort of irrational geographical descrptions are difficult to keep abreast of over here too. I’ve lived in the Pacific Northwest for years, but I was in Richmond, VA before that, and people here are always very surprised when I describe Virginia as part of the South. “But it’s not _really_ the South,” I’d be told. Al I know is that if you tried to tell that to the people in Richmond, you’d be laughed at. My grade school teachers would occasionally slip and refer to the “North Aggression.” ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2008, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-on-the-straight-dope-setup-thread-in-middle-earth-fa63/439276/1273 "2008-10-19T20:08:53Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > I never would have, but my confusion was from the other direction. I would never have called a Scotsman or a Welshman a Brit. I thought the Brits were those that were (more or less) native to the land south of Hadrian’s Wall and East of Wales and possibly excepting Cornishmen. Britain is the island, so British includes Scots and Welsh. (I’m about 25% Scottish myself 🆒 ). Cornwall is at one end of the country, but nowadays they worry more about rich folk buying up holiday homes (pushing up prices) than any separate identity. S of Hadrian’s Wall and E of Wales is all England. My understanding is that there have been many waves of settlers: - the **Romans** under Caesar arrived about 50BC, bringing roads, aqueducts and plumbing 🆒 - the **Angles** and the **Saxons** (plus some Jutes?), who arrived several hundred year later, give rise to us being known as Anglo-Saxon - the **Vikings** raided regularly and even captured York in 866 (bringing lager :eek: ) - William invaded successfully from **Normandy** in 1066 (bringing onions, bicycles and berets 😕 ) and that’s just the ancient history. We have loads of cuisines here 😉 , especially curry - all brought over by visitors. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2008, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-on-the-straight-dope-setup-thread-in-middle-earth-fa63/439276/1274 "2008-10-19T23:30:31Z")
> [@glee](#): > > Britain is the island, so British includes Scots and Welsh. > (I’m about 25% Scottish myself 🆒 ). > > Cornwall is at one end of the country, but nowadays they worry more about rich folk buying up holiday homes (pushing up prices) than any separate identity. > > S of Hadrian’s Wall and E of Wales is all England. > > My understanding is that there have been many waves of settlers: > > - the **Romans** under Caesar arrived about 50BC, bringing roads, aqueducts and plumbing 🆒 > - the **Angles** and the **Saxons** (plus some Jutes?), who arrived several hundred year later, give rise to us being known as Anglo-Saxon > - the **Vikings** raided regularly and even captured York in 866 (bringing lager :eek: ) > - William invaded successfully from **Normandy** in 1066 (bringing onions, bicycles and berets 😕 ) > > and that’s just the ancient history. We have loads of cuisines here 😉 , especially curry - all brought over by visitors. You forgot the Celts that invaded in waves before even the Romans. They controlled most of the island by 500 BC. The Welsh are basically a Celtic group with a Celtic language if I recall correctly. A type of Celt were dominant in Scotland before even 500 BC. Possibly several centuries before. Then there was the Belgae who showed up in large numbers displaced by Romans around 150 BC I think. I really like (ancient) English History, I have always read a lot of the history and legends of the British Isles. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-on-the-straight-dope-setup-thread-in-middle-earth-fa63/439276/1275 "2008-10-20T18:17:13Z")
[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10197112&postcount=1306](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10197112&postcount=1306) [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10198743&postcount=1318](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10198743&postcount=1318) [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10199835&postcount=1327](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10199835&postcount=1327) [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10202190&postcount=1342](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10202190&postcount=1342) [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10203095&postcount=1347](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10203095&postcount=1347) [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10209394&postcount=1386](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10209394&postcount=1386) I also just realized we need a single file order now minus the Dwarves. It should concentrate on protecting the two guests and Deor of course. Miron has to be the lead and beyond that it is up to you. If Folca is doing much scouting, you probably want Deor near the front for easy talking to Miron. Keep in mind there are pack animals and a few spares horses. Miron will need someone to lead his pack horse and Gwaelur has a pair of ponies. Lorliana will be switching between her horses during the track. I might have forgotten a pack animal and of course there are the two canines. They will actually be doing much better. Those 40 miles days were tough on them and they were eating food and GoodBerries to sustain. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-on-the-straight-dope-setup-thread-in-middle-earth-fa63/439276/1276 "2008-10-21T14:49:19Z")
A modest proposal for our single-file marching order; critters in _ital_: Miron Gwaelur _Gwaelur’s ponies_ Deor Thoroncir _Miron’s pack horse_ Gilraen _Ghan’s dogs_ Ghan _Spare horses_ Curunauth Lorliana _Lorliana’s spare horse_ Mulligan _Pack horses_ Gil-Gandel Elfstan ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-on-the-straight-dope-setup-thread-in-middle-earth-fa63/439276/1277 "2008-10-21T15:38:11Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > A modest proposal for our single-file marching order; critters in _ital_: > > Miron > > Gwaelur > _Gwaelur’s ponies_ > Deor > Thoroncir > _Miron’s pack horse_ > Gilraen > _Ghan’s dogs_ > Ghan > _Spare horses_ > Curunauth > Lorliana > _Lorliana’s spare horse_ > Mulligan > _Pack horses_ > > Gil-Gandel > Elfstan I like this but wonder if Deor shouldn’t be moved closer to the middle of the pack. Maybe behind Gilraen but in front of Ghan’s dogs? That way he has more protection on all sides. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-on-the-straight-dope-setup-thread-in-middle-earth-fa63/439276/1278 "2008-10-21T16:25:50Z")
I think the idea is it speeds relay of info to Miron from what Deor sees through Folca’s eyes. He is sandwiched between your two bricks. It actually looks fairly sound with Gil-Gandel as rear guard and Mulligan to ride herd on the two guests. I would recommend Deor make Elfstan invisible for the journey as an added surprise. It also gives Gil-Gandel a very effective rear armor. Then if the Swamp Hobbit gets added in, he just goes up from with Miron. ---
**Author:** ![RogueRacer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7ab992/32.png) [@RogueRacer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RogueRacer)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-on-the-straight-dope-setup-thread-in-middle-earth-fa63/439276/1279 "2008-10-21T18:00:09Z")
Please keep in mind that Elfstan has Flower now, so he isn’t riding with Gil-Gandel. Elfstan doesn’t mind riding rear guard with Gil-Gandel. He would like to be able to watch out for Curunauth too. I was also going to suggest making one or both of the Hobbits invisible. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-on-the-straight-dope-setup-thread-in-middle-earth-fa63/439276/1280 "2008-10-21T20:32:42Z")
> [@RogueRacer](#): > > Please keep in mind that Elfstan has Flower now, so he isn’t riding with Gil-Gandel. Elfstan doesn’t mind riding rear guard with Gil-Gandel. He would like to be able to watch out for Curunauth too. > > I was also going to suggest making one or both of the Hobbits invisible. :smack: Good point, Elfstan in front of Curunauth then? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-on-the-straight-dope-setup-thread-in-middle-earth-fa63/439276.md?page=63) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-on-the-straight-dope-setup-thread-in-middle-earth-fa63/439276.md?page=65)