# D&D vs the Israel Defense Forces **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 10, 2005, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-vs-the-israel-defense-forces/293787 "2005-03-10T03:49:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-vs-the-israel-defense-forces/293787/1 "2005-03-10T03:49:36Z")
[http://www.ynetnews.com/articles//0,7340,L-3052074,00.html](http://www.ynetnews.com/articles//0,7340,L-3052074,00.html) Apparently, the Israel Defense Force considers D&D players mentally unstable and unfit for security clearance. I find this notion itself highly irrational and out of touch with reality. It’s just a game. There’s as much escapism in reading a book, only less strategy, less math and less critical decision making. ---
**Author:** ![LeeshaJoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LeeshaJoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LeeshaJoy)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-vs-the-israel-defense-forces/293787/2 "2005-03-10T04:41:06Z")
Maybe they’re just worried that the opposing army will win initiative. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-vs-the-israel-defense-forces/293787/3 "2005-03-10T04:53:42Z")
Ah, yes, but it’s strategy, math, and critical decision making based on a false reality. Don’t want soldiers out munchkining for XP, or thinking they have enough hit points to outlast an enemy in a knife fight. ;j 😃😛 :wally ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-vs-the-israel-defense-forces/293787/4 "2005-03-10T05:02:29Z")
The real question is, does the IDF equip their soldiers with Epic Plate Armor +5 of Etherealness? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-vs-the-israel-defense-forces/293787/5 "2005-03-10T06:26:39Z")
**foolsguinea** wrote: > [@](#): > > Ah, yes, but it’s strategy, math, and critical decision making based on a false reality. As with any game. People who play chess are credited with knowing something about strategy in real life, even though that game in its abstraction is far removed from the real world. D&D evoloved out of wargaming, which itself evolved from strategic simulations used in actual military training. That too is a fantasy. That D&D involves magic and elves only enriches the strategic and psychological complexity. It’s not as though it’s a wooly game of let’s pretend. There is an elaborate ruleset that players negotiate. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-vs-the-israel-defense-forces/293787/6 "2005-03-10T07:04:07Z")
Pshaw. A level 18 necromancer has infilatrated the IDF in a key locus of decision making power, and doesn’t want anybody to catch on. So anybody who might know _the truth_ is denied top secret security clearance. After all, last thing he wants is some uppity cleric to wander in. ---
**Author:** ![Greenback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/2bfe46/32.png) [@Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greenback)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-vs-the-israel-defense-forces/293787/7 "2005-03-10T07:11:30Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Pshaw. A level 18 necromancer has infilatrated the IDF in a key locus of decision making power, and doesn’t want anybody to catch on. So anybody who might know _the truth_ is denied top secret security clearance. After all, last thing he wants is some uppity cleric to wander in. :rolls d20 My sense motive of 14 plus +2 for wisdom says that you’re bluffing. As for the OP, I think the main objection is all the familiars in the offices. ---
**Author:** ![Phnord\_Prephect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/df705f/32.png) [@Phnord\_Prephect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phnord_Prephect)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-vs-the-israel-defense-forces/293787/8 "2005-03-10T08:44:34Z")
Yay! Now I don’t have to pretend to be anything to get out of the draft! What? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-vs-the-israel-defense-forces/293787/9 "2005-03-10T08:57:01Z")
The IDF should be encouraging D&D players. Everyone knows that the Mind Bondage spell can be used to get your enemies to do what you want. And with the power of the Dark Lord, none shall stand against them! ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-vs-the-israel-defense-forces/293787/10 "2005-03-10T10:57:58Z")
When it comes to the IDF vs. D&D I’m going to have to go with the IDF. Sure, D&D has dragons, elves, and magic but the IDF has missiles, jets, and the toughest Jews on the planet. Hmmm…dragons, jets, machine guns, and dwarves. This is starting to sound a lot like Shadowrun. I guess it sounds kind of silly. I remember reading an article about job interviews that advised people, if asked, that they do not see many movies. Supposedly some employers think people who see to many movies are flakey. Don’t know where they came up with that one but there it is. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-vs-the-israel-defense-forces/293787/11 "2005-03-10T12:44:50Z")
Even EN-World forum which never allows “political” topics… has been debating this topic too ! ``` The US military intelligence and US armed forces I understand are riddled with RPG players... and that doesn't seem to affect their job much. RPG players aren't all that normal (myself included)... but none are dumb. More probably someone is being dumb in the IDF. :smack: ``` ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-vs-the-israel-defense-forces/293787/12 "2005-03-10T13:03:55Z")
I wonder why they don’t feel this way about people playing console or computer games. “Detached from reality,” haha, this from a nation built on belief in an all powerful invisible grandfather in the sky, fighting a war with neighbors that believe in a different, but very simliar invisible grandfather in the sky. It is so hard to type with the tears of irony streaming down my face. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-vs-the-israel-defense-forces/293787/13 "2005-03-10T13:22:37Z")
We went through this same thing in North America 20 years ago; Israel is just a little behind us, that’s all. Remember the craze? D&D was going to turn all children into psychos. It turned that guy into a nut in “Mazes and Monsters.” This strikes me as being about the same as suggesting that a Christmas pageant will turn children into psychos. Look, they’re pretending to be people in Roman-era Palestine! They’ll get over it. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-vs-the-israel-defense-forces/293787/14 "2005-03-10T13:29:29Z")
I don’t remember people being excluded from the US military 20 years ago… in fact I remember the guys from TSR saying they sold a lot of D&D stuff to submarine crews ! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-vs-the-israel-defense-forces/293787/15 "2005-03-10T15:02:29Z")
This is rather humorous. Hell, the only D&D con I ever went to years ago was at West Point, of all places. Those cadets were _hard core_ about D&D. I guess our current soldiers are too busy cracking out epic characters to do much good in Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![sweetfreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@sweetfreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweetfreak)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-vs-the-israel-defense-forces/293787/16 "2005-03-10T15:20:08Z")
_Cheats and rolls a d20 for damage._ Wooooo Hooooo! I killed all the Arabs in one roll. _promptly snuffed out by the DM_ ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-vs-the-israel-defense-forces/293787/17 "2005-03-10T15:21:59Z")
I have heard (no cite, sorry) that D&D is generally frowned upon in Israel. Because it promotes Christianity. My and Jack Chick’s head asplode. ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-vs-the-israel-defense-forces/293787/18 "2005-03-10T15:41:36Z")
D&D players unfit for security clearance! Where are they going to get there computer technitions from for those high security computer systems? ---
**Author:** ![RandomLetters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8edcca/32.png) [@RandomLetters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandomLetters)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-vs-the-israel-defense-forces/293787/19 "2005-03-10T16:06:43Z")
> [@Rashak Mani](#): > > I don’t remember people being excluded from the US military 20 years ago… in fact I remember the guys from TSR saying they sold a lot of D&D stuff to submarine crews ! 🙂 That’s odd. You’d think Submariners would be playing a game like Call of Cthulhu. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-vs-the-israel-defense-forces/293787/20 "2005-03-10T16:43:25Z")
> [@RandomLetters](#): > > That’s odd. You’d think Submariners would be playing a game like Call of Cthulhu. 😉 They don’t want to be reminded of the events that inspired the lovecraft story, [The Temple](http://sprg.ssl.berkeley.edu/~wcoburn/hpl/temple.html). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-d-vs-the-israel-defense-forces/293787.md?page=2)