# D-Day landings, what if strategies **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 17, 2013, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-day-landings-what-if-strategies/655920 "2013-04-17T08:24:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![davekhps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@davekhps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davekhps)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-day-landings-what-if-strategies/655920/21 "2013-04-17T18:23:28Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > Smoke would have aided the Germans more than the Americans since they would not have been harassed an accurate naval bombardment. They had enough gunfire pointed at the beach that they could have just randomly fired into the smoke and gotten pretty much the same result. German soldiers would have been able to just sit on the bluff and point down and shot along the direction of the grappling ropes and ladders trying to scale the bluff; it would have been a turkey shoot for them. Trouble was, the Allied naval (and air) bombardment was anything but accurate on D-Day. My understanding is that the most successful bombardments were provided by the smaller ships (like destroyers) that ran right up to the beach (risking grounding) and thus could directly see their targets. Smoke certainly would have disrupted that support, but it would haven’t meant anything to the larger, indirectly-fired guns that didn’t have as much of an impact on the beaches themselves-- seeing as they were relatively ineffective even with spotting, not firing at all (or being relegated to pre-sited targets inland) would have made little difference. That said, no one in the Allied High Command would have voluntarily ceded what was, on paper at least, one of their greatest advantages over the German defenders: their overwhelming fire superiority at the point of attack. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-day-landings-what-if-strategies/655920/22 "2013-04-17T18:59:28Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > I have also read that the Commonwealth beaches made better use of combat-engineer vehicles. > > [Hobart's Funnies - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobart%27s_Funnies) Eh, I think the difference in military effectiveness between [the German defenders everywhere else] and [the 352nd defending at Omaha] is the predominant factor in the casualty difference, not other details. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-day-landings-what-if-strategies/655920/23 "2013-04-17T19:04:20Z")
IMO a more interesting What If is: What if Hitler had moved the 15th Army out of Calais to help defend once he knew about the invasion. ---
**Author:** ![Blakeyrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blakeyrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blakeyrat)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-day-landings-what-if-strategies/655920/24 "2013-04-17T19:16:53Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > On Omaha the inexperienced 29th Infantry Divison made a meal of it. What does “made a meal of it” mean? They did good, or bad? I can’t tell from the context, and I’ve never heard that phrase before… ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-day-landings-what-if-strategies/655920/25 "2013-04-17T20:14:17Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > The 352nd was the best German unit defending the beaches. It put up a lot more fight than any of the others. Simple bad luck for the guys assigned to that beach. Add to all of that the fact that Allied intelligence was unaware that the 352nd had moved up to the beach, they thought it was still located at [St. Lo](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omaha_Beach): > [@](#): > > Allied intelligence identified the coastal defenses [of Omaha Beach] as being manned by a reinforced battalion (800–1000 men) of the 716th Infantry Division.[8] This was a static defensive division estimated to contain up to 50% of non-Germanic troops, mostly Russian volunteers and German Volksdeutsche. The recently activated, but capable 352nd Infantry Division was identified as being located 20 miles (30 km) inland at Saint-Lô and was regarded as the most likely force to be committed to a counter-attack. However, as part of Rommel’s strategy to concentrate defenses at the water’s edge, the 352nd was ordered forward in March,[9] taking over responsibility for the defense of the Normandy coast in which Omaha Beach was located. There’s never been any controversy over relative performance on the beaches that I’m aware of. Utah was a pushover, with little resistance, Omaha was a bloodbath because the landing was made into the lap of a high quality division that the Allies didn’t even know was there, and the landings at Gold, Juno and Sword fell in-between, but also were counter attacked by the 21st and 12th SS Panzer Divisions later in the day. Regarding the use of smoke, consider how far landing craft landed their troops from their designated beaches on D-Day as it was. Now factor in massive amounts of smoke. And as **Little Nemo** notes, the effect of the smoke on the Germans wouldn’t be very great. The Germans didn’t really have to aim; the entire beach had been pre-registered by artillery, and machine guns had designated and interlocking fields of fire set up. All they had to do was shoot in pre-established lanes of fire, and smoke or not they were going to be hitting the troops landing and on the beach. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-day-landings-what-if-strategies/655920/26 "2013-04-17T21:03:28Z")
> [@Blakeyrat](#): > > What does “made a meal of it” mean? They did good, or bad? > > I can’t tell from the context, and I’ve never heard that phrase before… Ditto, but I was waiting for it to sort itself out…🙂 ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-day-landings-what-if-strategies/655920/27 "2013-04-17T23:40:15Z")
‘Making a meal of it’ means roughly to foul up what should have been a relatively simple task. It’s decidedly negative. ---
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-day-landings-what-if-strategies/655920/28 "2013-04-17T23:48:39Z")
[It’s too bad they couldn’t shut down this guy.](http://www.war44.com/omaha-beach/2859-heinrich-severloh-beast-omaha.html) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-day-landings-what-if-strategies/655920.md?page=1)