# D. Trump, Jr. wants silencers to be easier to buy-- it's a "health issue" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 8, 2017, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-trump-jr-wants-silencers-to-be-easier-to-buy-its-a-health-issue/776659 "2017-01-08T21:21:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-trump-jr-wants-silencers-to-be-easier-to-buy-its-a-health-issue/776659/41 "2017-01-09T03:54:54Z")
At about 5:15 in this vid there is a demonstration of the difference between sub and supersonic ammo through a suppressor. [Sub vs. supersonic ammo through a suppressor.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HzMLvrF6u4) Remember, subsonic = lower velocity= “less powerful”. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-trump-jr-wants-silencers-to-be-easier-to-buy-its-a-health-issue/776659/42 "2017-01-09T04:02:41Z")
> [@River\_Hippie](#): > > At about 5:15 in this vid there is a demonstration of the difference between sub and supersonic ammo through a suppressor. [Sub vs. supersonic ammo through a suppressor.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HzMLvrF6u4) Remember, subsonic = lower velocity= “less powerful”. You really want to open up a 9mm vs. .45 debate _here?_ 😃 ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-trump-jr-wants-silencers-to-be-easier-to-buy-its-a-health-issue/776659/43 "2017-01-09T04:09:08Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > You really want to open up a 9mm vs. .45 debate _here?_ > > 😃 It’s about bedtime, maybe tomorrow. 🙂 That said, I’ll say I feel adequately armed with a 9mm. Maybe not optimally… but adequately. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-trump-jr-wants-silencers-to-be-easier-to-buy-its-a-health-issue/776659/44 "2017-01-09T04:11:12Z")
I own a suppressor, technically. I’m in a trust with my best friend and the trust owns the surpressor. That way which ever of us lives in a place that won’t allow it can transfer it to the other without going through the government. I don’t have it in my possession and don’t even own a gun it could mount to. I think suppressors should be dropped off the list along with sawed off shotguns. Honestly an idiot like the one in Florida would have been less deadly with a full auto weapon since he just shot until he was out of ammo and he would have been less accurate and finished quicker with a full auto. I think explosives should be regulated different from guns and that included things like rockets and grenades but I’m for legalization of all guns. Then we can talk about criminalization of using them, which I’m all for if you commit a crime with a firearm double the sentence immeditly. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-trump-jr-wants-silencers-to-be-easier-to-buy-its-a-health-issue/776659/45 "2017-01-09T04:15:05Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > You really want to open up a 9mm vs. .45 debate _here?_ > > 😃 That wasn’t directed at me but there is no debate. The .45 wins every time especially if they are on a 1911 type frame. 9mm’s are the Red Ryder BB guns of the handgun world. They are the ones I have shot without hearing protection many times without feeling like I just got bitch slapped (that is point in their favor BTW). My Colt King Cobra .357 magnum on the other hand made it clear that you are the bitch every time you pull the trigger without hearing protection. I would pay really good money for it to have a sound suppressor. You can’t shoot full loads through it without hearing protection and not expect your ears to ring for about three days. I switched to the .38 caliber bullets for target shooting (roughly the same as 9mm) because full loads are not fun for more than a couple of shots. My father’s .44 magnum is much worse than that. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-trump-jr-wants-silencers-to-be-easier-to-buy-its-a-health-issue/776659/46 "2017-01-09T04:21:10Z")
Your wallet doesn’t win when you use .45 😃 ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-trump-jr-wants-silencers-to-be-easier-to-buy-its-a-health-issue/776659/47 "2017-01-09T04:24:22Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > That wasn’t directed at me but there is no debate. The .45 wins every time especially if they are on a 1911 type frame. 9mm’s are the Red Ryder BB guns of the handgun world. They are the ones I have shot without hearing protection many times without feeling like I just got bitch slapped (that is point in their favor BTW). > > My Colt King Cobra .357 magnum on the other hand made it clear that you are the bitch every time you pull the trigger without hearing protection. I would pay really good money for it to have a sound suppressor. You can’t shoot full loads through it without hearing protection and not expect your ears to ring for about three days. I switched to the .38 caliber bullets for target shooting (roughly the same as 9mm) because full loads are not fun for more than a couple of shots. My father’s .44 magnum is much worse than that. I didn’t realize that noise level was a criteria for choosing a handgun. [From here.](http://keepandbeararms.com/information/XcIBViewItem.asp?ID=2052) > [@](#): > > 25 ACP 155.0 dB > .32 LONG 152.4 dB > .32 ACP 153.5 dB > .380 157.7 dB > **9mm 159.8 dB** > .38 S&W 153.5 dB > .38 Spl 156.3 dB > .357 Magnum 164.3 dB > .41 Magnum 163.2 dB > .44 Spl 155.9 dB > **.45 ACP 157.0 dB** > .45 COLT 154.7 dB ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-trump-jr-wants-silencers-to-be-easier-to-buy-its-a-health-issue/776659/48 "2017-01-09T04:33:44Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > I didn’t realize that noise level was a criteria for choosing a handgun. > [From here.](http://keepandbeararms.com/information/XcIBViewItem.asp?ID=2052) I don’t know if you are kidding or not but it is very important because it affects the ability to practice and potential hearing damage. Decibels are measured on a logarithmic scale. Even though all the numbers on your list are high, there is a still a gigantic difference between them. The difference between an 25 ACP and a .357 magnum are well over an order of magnitude. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-trump-jr-wants-silencers-to-be-easier-to-buy-its-a-health-issue/776659/49 "2017-01-09T04:39:10Z")
It must be like living in an open lunatic asylum at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-trump-jr-wants-silencers-to-be-easier-to-buy-its-a-health-issue/776659/50 "2017-01-09T04:40:28Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > That wasn’t directed at me but there is no debate. The .45 wins every time especially if they are on a 1911 type frame. 9mm’s are the Red Ryder BB guns of the handgun world. They are the ones I have shot without hearing protection many times without feeling like I just got bitch slapped (that is point in their favor BTW). > > My Colt King Cobra .357 magnum on the other hand made it clear that you are the bitch every time you pull the trigger without hearing protection. I would pay really good money for it to have a sound suppressor. You can’t shoot full loads through it without hearing protection and not expect your ears to ring for about three days. I switched to the .38 caliber bullets for target shooting (roughly the same as 9mm) because full loads are not fun for more than a couple of shots. My father’s .44 magnum is much worse than that. I know you have some experience with guns. Other than Hollywood, suppressors are not used on revolvers, right? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-trump-jr-wants-silencers-to-be-easier-to-buy-its-a-health-issue/776659/51 "2017-01-09T04:42:22Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I don’t know if you are kidding or not but it is very important. Decibels are measured on a logarithmic scale. Even though all the numbers on your list are high, there is a still a gigantic difference between them. The difference between an 25 ACP and a .357 magnum are well over an order of magnitude difference. I never compared the .25 and the .357. I am well aware of how the decibel scale works. Stop thumping your chest. You were claiming you wore no hearing protection for a louder caliber and implying you were a real man to be using a .45. [FBI Decides On 9mm As Their #1 Choice And Have Tons Of Science Behind Their Decision](http://concealednation.org/2014/10/fbi-decides-on-9mm-as-their-1-choice-and-have-tons-of-science-behind-their-decision/) > [@](#): > > Most of what is “common knowledge” with ammunition and its effects on the human target are rooted in myth and folklore > > · Projectiles are what ultimately wound our adversaries and the projectile needs to be the basis for the discussion on what “caliber” is best > > · In all the major law enforcement calibers there exist projectiles which have a high likelihood of failing LEO’s in a shooting incident and there are projectiles which have a high ting incident likelihood of succeeding for LEO’s in a shooting incident > > **· Handgun stopping power is simply a myth** > > · The single most important factor in effectively wounding a human target is to have penetration to a scientifically valid depth (FBI uses 12” – 18”) > > · LEO’s miss between 70 – 80 percent of the shots fired during a shooting incident > > · Contemporary projectiles (since 2007) have dramatically increased the terminal effectiveness of many premium line law enforcement projectiles (emphasis on the 9mm Luger offerings) ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-trump-jr-wants-silencers-to-be-easier-to-buy-its-a-health-issue/776659/52 "2017-01-09T04:47:55Z")
> [@River\_Hippie](#): > > I know you have some experience with guns. Other than Hollywood, suppressors are not used on revolvers, right? A little but not really. It kind of defeats the purpose of them but it is technically possible. They do exist but they tend to throw the weight and balance off making them almost pointless for most popular handguns. Sound suppression is more suited to rifles and shotguns. ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-trump-jr-wants-silencers-to-be-easier-to-buy-its-a-health-issue/776659/53 "2017-01-09T04:56:15Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > It must be like living in an open lunatic asylum at the moment. Not yet. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-trump-jr-wants-silencers-to-be-easier-to-buy-its-a-health-issue/776659/54 "2017-01-09T04:58:18Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > I never compared the .25 and the .357. > > I am well aware of how the decibel scale works. Stop thumping your chest. > You were claiming you wore no hearing protection for a louder caliber and implying you were a real man to be using a .45. > [FBI Decides On 9mm As Their #1 Choice And Have Tons Of Science Behind Their Decision](http://concealednation.org/2014/10/fbi-decides-on-9mm-as-their-1-choice-and-have-tons-of-science-behind-their-decision/) I never thumped my chest. I just gave my opinion on various handguns based on personal experience. I have known and loved many 9mm’s as well as some .45’s. I just like the history and the ballistic profile of the .45 better. I don’t even own either of them right now. Glock 9mm’s are perfectly fine guns and easy to shoot but I have a soft spot in my heart for any handguns that is based on the tried and true Colt 1911. Next up: Chevy versus Ford (meet us outside for a street brawl after the debate). ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-trump-jr-wants-silencers-to-be-easier-to-buy-its-a-health-issue/776659/55 "2017-01-09T04:58:42Z")
Interesting discussion. Thank you all. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-trump-jr-wants-silencers-to-be-easier-to-buy-its-a-health-issue/776659/56 "2017-01-09T06:40:11Z")
Everyone knows anything smaller than 20mm will just bounce off the bad guy’s skin. > [@River\_Hippie](#): > > I know you have some experience with guns. Other than Hollywood, suppressors are not used on revolvers, right? You normally can’t silence them because gas escapes out the side of the cylinder. At least one exception: the Nagant revolver, which uses weird rounds and seals the gas in when firing. There are youtube videos of silenced Nagants. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-trump-jr-wants-silencers-to-be-easier-to-buy-its-a-health-issue/776659/57 "2017-01-09T16:11:48Z")
> [@River\_Hippie](#): > > There was another thread about Class III stuff recently and it was pointed out that you can own an AR15 rifle with 16" barrel and a stock, in 5.56, with only the normal background check. You also can own an AR15 pistol, with a short barrel and no stock, also 5.56 with the same background check. To own an AR15 with a short barrel and a stock you have to go the full Class III route. Hardly seems logical. I guess the difference would be that with the short barreled rifle you get increased conceal-ability with the advantage of the stock which allows easier accuracy. Still…wouldn’t mind seeing them deregulated along with suppressors. I would say yes (especially since I own a Universal Enforcer M-1 carbine pistol) to rifles but I am really tempted to keep shortened shotguns on the Class III list. A short rifle is basically just a stocked pistol (I own a couple cap and ball versions of those and do own a Luger or four) but a sawed-off is a whole nother story when it comes to the basic criminal. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-trump-jr-wants-silencers-to-be-easier-to-buy-its-a-health-issue/776659/58 "2017-01-09T16:26:07Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Everyone knows anything smaller than 20mm will just bounce off the bad guy’s skin. > > You normally can’t silence them because gas escapes out the side of the cylinder. At least one exception: the Nagant revolver, which uses weird rounds and seals the gas in when firing. There are youtube videos of silenced Nagants. The Nagant doesn’t use [silent rounds](http://www.forgottenweapons.com/russian-silent-ammunition/) but it does [seal the cylinder gap.](http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/06/15/why-cant-revolvers-be-suppressed-or-can-they/) > [@](#): > > Enter the Nagant M1895, a Russian revolver based on the 7.62x38mmR (7.62 Nagant) cartridge. In the Nagant’s mechanical action, the cylinder moves forward as the hammer is cocked, sealing the space between the barrel and the chambered round. Presto: silenced revolver. You’ll just have to live with sourcing quality defensive 7.62x38mmR ammo. The second link also has a few _very_ one-off silenced revolvers. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-trump-jr-wants-silencers-to-be-easier-to-buy-its-a-health-issue/776659/59 "2017-01-09T17:17:10Z")
Well, the open carry crowd wants to be able to take their guns everywhere, including into libraries. So being able to equip them with a silencer does make a certain sense so as when they feel obliged to shoot them in the library they can do so without disturbing other patrons. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-trump-jr-wants-silencers-to-be-easier-to-buy-its-a-health-issue/776659/60 "2017-01-09T17:26:20Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > Well, the open carry crowd wants to be able to take their guns everywhere, including into libraries. So being able to equip them with a silencer does make a certain sense so as when they feel obliged to shoot them in the library they can do so without disturbing other patrons. Silenced gunshots\* have been compared to the sound of slamming a large, heavy book on a table. \*Based on caliber, etc. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-trump-jr-wants-silencers-to-be-easier-to-buy-its-a-health-issue/776659.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/d-trump-jr-wants-silencers-to-be-easier-to-buy-its-a-health-issue/776659.md?page=4)