# DACA/Dreamer hypothetical (would you take a "fugitive" Dreamer into your home?) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 5, 2017, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-dreamer-hypothetical-would-you-take-a-fugitive-dreamer-into-your-home/795595 "2017-09-05T22:42:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2017, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-dreamer-hypothetical-would-you-take-a-fugitive-dreamer-into-your-home/795595/81 "2017-09-09T03:00:06Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > It’s not that I say it’s illegal, the Constitution prevents any president from enacting laws on his own. The courts have not determined that this is what took place. That **D’Anconia** says that this is what took place is not a convincing argument-by-assertion. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2017, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-dreamer-hypothetical-would-you-take-a-fugitive-dreamer-into-your-home/795595/82 "2017-09-09T03:05:24Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The courts have not determined that this is what took place. That **D’Anconia** says that this is what took place is not a convincing argument-by-assertion. What about DAPA? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2017, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-dreamer-hypothetical-would-you-take-a-fugitive-dreamer-into-your-home/795595/83 "2017-09-09T03:08:46Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > What about DAPA? What about it? That the courts may have made a determination about DAPA doesn’t mean they will make the same determination about DACA. They are two different things. That **D’Anconia** thinks they are similar or identical is not a convincing argument-by-assertion. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2017, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-dreamer-hypothetical-would-you-take-a-fugitive-dreamer-into-your-home/795595/84 "2017-09-09T05:42:01Z")
The fact that the courts haven’t ruled in this particular case doesn’t mean that what Obama did was legal. A lot of illegal or unauthorized actions never get judged or sanctioned. For example, all the the people currently here illegally and not removed. Courts acting or not acting don’t change the status. It’s also a bit odd to compare enforcing borders with Nazi Germany. Why is it always the tactic to compare things one disagrees with politically to the Nazis? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2017, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-dreamer-hypothetical-would-you-take-a-fugitive-dreamer-into-your-home/795595/85 "2017-09-09T06:05:32Z")
I like to think my answer would be “yes,” although i would have to consider not just the possibility of criminal penalties, but my own status as an immigrant. I’ve lived here for about a third of my life, and i hold a Permanent Resident Card, but i’m not yet a citizen. Green Cards are handled by the same general branch of the government that deals with other areas of immigration and citizenship, and can be relatively easily revoked. I’m sure that aiding illegal immigrants would be considered pretty good grounds for revocation, and i’m not sure i’m willing to risk my own deportation. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2017, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-dreamer-hypothetical-would-you-take-a-fugitive-dreamer-into-your-home/795595/86 "2017-09-09T11:55:11Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > The fact that the courts haven’t ruled in this particular case doesn’t mean that what Obama did was legal. A lot of illegal or unauthorized actions never get judged or sanctioned. For example, all the the people currently here illegally and not removed. Courts acting or not acting don’t change the status. I was responding to a poster who declared DACA illegal. I don’t know if it’s definitely legal, but until courts say it’s illegal, I’m not going to just accept random internet person’s word for it. > [@](#): > > It’s also a bit odd to compare enforcing borders with Nazi Germany. Why is it always the tactic to compare things one disagrees with politically to the Nazis? I was responding to someone who said they wouldn’t host a Dreamer because they broke the law. Logically that would extend to a Jew in Nazi Germany – Jews who didn’t turn themselves in were breaking the law, and thus the same reasoning would apply, presumably. Obviously my point is that sometimes the moral thing to do is to break the law, or cover for someone who is breaking the law. IMO, hosting a dreamer who is in danger of being deported to a dangerous country qualifies, even if the threat to them isn’t as large as the threat to Jews in Germany. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2017, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-dreamer-hypothetical-would-you-take-a-fugitive-dreamer-into-your-home/795595/87 "2017-09-09T17:36:19Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Because his justification was that they broke the law. If that’s the only criteria, then obviously he wouldn’t have helped Jews or slaves hide, since that similarly would have been assisting them in breaking the law. The poster said that the Dreamer had broken “our” law, and it wasn’t the only criteria. The poser also noted that the Dreamer could apply for return once he was back in his country of birth, \*which I made a point of emphasizing in my post. \* As a general rule, it’s not a good idea to assume that a statement here “obviously” means the person would support Hitler in Nazi Germany. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2017, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-dreamer-hypothetical-would-you-take-a-fugitive-dreamer-into-your-home/795595/88 "2017-09-09T17:43:13Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I was responding to a poster who declared DACA illegal. I don’t know if it’s definitely legal, but until courts say it’s illegal, I’m not going to just accept random internet person’s word for it. > > I was responding to someone who said they wouldn’t host a Dreamer because they broke the law. Logically that would extend to a Jew in Nazi Germany – Jews who didn’t turn themselves in were breaking the law, and thus the same reasoning would apply, presumably. > > Obviously my point is that sometimes the moral thing to do is to break the law, or cover for someone who is breaking the law. IMO, hosting a dreamer who is in danger of being deported to a dangerous country qualifies, even if the threat to them isn’t as large as the threat to Jews in Germany. Thanks for the response. It’s a dilemma. The US can’t nor should solve all the world’s or even Mexico’s problems. However, for these young people who had no choice and don’t know another place, mass deportation seems unnecessarily harsh. The question is how to prevent this from consistently happening when the idea that the US has toothless laws spreads? Not enforcing current and past law led to this nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2017, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-dreamer-hypothetical-would-you-take-a-fugitive-dreamer-into-your-home/795595/89 "2017-09-09T18:10:10Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The poster said that the Dreamer had broken “our” law, and it wasn’t the only criteria. The poser also noted that the Dreamer could apply for return once he was back in his country of birth, \*which I made a point of emphasizing in my post. \* As a general rule, it’s not a good idea to assume that a statement here “obviously” means the person would support Hitler in Nazi Germany. That’s why I asked. I assume that breaking the law was not really the only criteria, thus I was trying to suss out what the real criteria was, by demonstrating what seemed to me to be an obvious and horrible logical extension. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2017, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-dreamer-hypothetical-would-you-take-a-fugitive-dreamer-into-your-home/795595/90 "2017-09-09T18:12:55Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Thanks for the response. > > It’s a dilemma. The US can’t nor should solve all the world’s or even Mexico’s problems. However, for these young people who had no choice and don’t know another place, mass deportation seems unnecessarily harsh. The question is how to prevent this from consistently happening when the idea that the US has toothless laws spreads? > > Not enforcing current and past law led to this nonsense. That’s a reasonable position, IMO, though it doesn’t answer this thread’s hypothetical – if Trump/Sessions decided they were going to start rounding up Dreamers to ship them to countries they know nothing about (and ones that are often very dangerous), then would you consider harboring a terrified Dreamer if a close friend vouched that they would be good houseguests? ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2017, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-dreamer-hypothetical-would-you-take-a-fugitive-dreamer-into-your-home/795595/91 "2017-09-09T18:43:35Z")
> [@Mdcastle](#): > > Once they’re back in they’re home country if they want to follow the rules and apply for legal immigration status here I’d be all for that. This right here is the point where I roll my eyes and stop reading what conservatives have to say. For the majority of illegal immigrants there exists no reasonable path to legal immigration that can be achieved in a working lifetime, and for many of them, no path at all. Plus, President McFuckface is going after legal immigration unless you’re white and speak English as a first language, too. This “golly, they should just follow the rules and come here legally” is morally and intellectually bankrupt in a country where the rules are being continually revised by a racist government to make sure that that’s not possible. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2017, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-dreamer-hypothetical-would-you-take-a-fugitive-dreamer-into-your-home/795595/92 "2017-09-09T19:10:06Z")
If I were a better person, definitely. As I don’t know if I am that good a person, I don’t know. It does depend on what the punishment is. If it is minor, then sure, but as it gets higher up to the point of jail time, I would become less likely. Strangely though, once jail time is invoked, further punishment would actually make me more likely to defy the law, as at that point it become obvious that the govt making these laws is not interested in the smooth functioning of society, but instead upon the oppression of a demographic it has chosen to oppress. To address a few points made by others: This is not that different from shielding jews from nazi round-ups, as the germans were mostly unaware of the death camps, and were told that the jews were just being relocated out of the country. A dreamer sent back to their “home” country is not going to be in much better position than what your average german thought that a jew deported by the SS was going to be in. But then, many would classify me as an open borders type of person. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-dreamer-hypothetical-would-you-take-a-fugitive-dreamer-into-your-home/795595/93 "2018-01-23T14:12:23Z")
The possibility raised by the hypothetical question in my OP seems far more likely these days. My answer is the same – I think I’d try to do the right thing and host a Dreamer if they were in danger of being deported to a dangerous country that they knew nothing about, and the probability would go way up if I knew and trusted them, or if they were vouched for by someone I trusted. But I can’t know for sure what I’d do until the possibility actually came up. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-dreamer-hypothetical-would-you-take-a-fugitive-dreamer-into-your-home/795595/94 "2018-01-23T15:26:38Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > I am older though, so the thought of going to prison doesn’t frighten me much. I just don’t think I could live with myself if I didn’t try to do something. > > It makes me very sad that this might really happen. This. With all the extreme rhetoric flying around from both sides it’s hard to say for sure if we are heading down a path similar to 1930s Germany, but on the off chance we are, I’d rather be lumped in with the group of people who harbored and suffered the consequences than the group that knew something shitty was going down and did nothing to help the persecuted. And in my mind the only thing worse than refusing to harbor, is harboring and then caving and turning over the person you’ve taken in. ---
**Author:** ![Sigene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sigene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigene)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-dreamer-hypothetical-would-you-take-a-fugitive-dreamer-into-your-home/795595/95 "2018-01-23T15:49:06Z")
No, I won’t. I’ve got my reasons, all of them legitimate ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-dreamer-hypothetical-would-you-take-a-fugitive-dreamer-into-your-home/795595/96 "2018-01-23T16:00:42Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > The courts ruled against DAPA, how is DACA any different? The preliminary injunction related to DAPA ended in a 4-4 decisions of the SCOTUS, which set no precedent and due to that upheld the 5th Circuit’s preliminary injunction. IIRC, the matter was still before the District Court on the merits when DAPA was rescinded by the Trump Administration. Therefore, it is fair to say that the matter hasn’t been finally ruled upon and so the debate over the Constitutionality of DACA is different than what happened with DAPA. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-dreamer-hypothetical-would-you-take-a-fugitive-dreamer-into-your-home/795595/97 "2018-01-23T16:26:12Z")
Seeing this pop up again made me look; I am surprised that we’re close to a 50/50 split. It happens but most of the polls I see here tend to have one option of the other being a clear winner among us. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-dreamer-hypothetical-would-you-take-a-fugitive-dreamer-into-your-home/795595/98 "2018-01-23T16:27:46Z")
Again, those of you who are willing to take someone in and are patting yourselves on the back, please understand: mass deportation is not the threat. ICE in the streets is not the threat. The threat is people being unemployed or underemployed and unable to support themselves. DACA people won’t need an attic–they will need a JOB, and if you can’t give them a job, they will need money. Unless and until you are willing to provide that, don’t console yourself that you’ll be there when it gets to the “hunted down like dogs” phase. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-dreamer-hypothetical-would-you-take-a-fugitive-dreamer-into-your-home/795595/99 "2018-01-23T16:34:10Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > mass deportation is not the threat. ICE in the streets is not the threat. Why do you believe this? Yes, housing the unemployable brings its own noteworthy challenges, but why do you believe forced unemployment is not a precursor to mass deportation? ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-dreamer-hypothetical-would-you-take-a-fugitive-dreamer-into-your-home/795595/100 "2018-01-23T16:44:48Z")
Because we aren’t currently having mass deportations of the millions of undocumented immigrants who aren’t DACA kids. There are deportations, yes, but most undocumented immigrants are still humming along, living quietly and staying under the radar. I think the anti-DACA force don’t mind having a vast underclass of exploitable people–they just don’t want them to think they deserve anything. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-dreamer-hypothetical-would-you-take-a-fugitive-dreamer-into-your-home/795595.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-dreamer-hypothetical-would-you-take-a-fugitive-dreamer-into-your-home/795595.md?page=6)