# DACA if Mexico pays for the wall. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 7, 2017, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750 "2017-09-07T19:25:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2017, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/1 "2017-09-07T19:25:41Z")
I must have heard just about every Democrat asking for a “clean” dreamers bill. is there ANY chance that a dreamers bill won’t come with a bunch of shit added to it? If I were Trump, I would put together bill that gives permanent residency to dreamers and taxes Mexican imports to pay for the border wall. And that’s how you get Mexico to pay for the border wall. Would Democrats really vote against a Dreamers bill because there was a tariff that would pay for the wall attached to it? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2017, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/2 "2017-09-07T19:27:47Z")
In a heartbeat. They won’t (I hope) fall for something as stupid as that. ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2017, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/3 "2017-09-07T19:29:51Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I must have heard just about every Democrat asking for a “clean” dreamers bill. is there ANY chance that a dreamers bill won’t come with a bunch of shit added to it? > > If I were Trump, I would put together bill that gives permanent residency to dreamers and taxes Mexican imports to pay for the border wall. And that’s how you get Mexico to pay for the border wall. > > Would Democrats really vote against a Dreamers bill because there was a tariff that would pay for the wall attached to it? So, in other words, the American taxpayers still pay for his fucking wall? Cause that’s what a tariff on Mexican goods would do. Why is that so hard to understand? Do you know how tariffs work? Fuck Trump and his wall. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2017, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/4 "2017-09-07T20:34:05Z")
Absolutely zero chance that the Dems would vote for such a bill. It’s not only a bad idea, it’s a terrible deal. Why trade something that has pretty substantial bipartisan support and strong popular support (Dreamers) for something that is divisive and a political loser (having Americans pay for the wall with higher taxes on tequilla and cars)? ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2017, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/5 "2017-09-07T20:38:49Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > …taxes Mexican imports to pay for the border wall. And that’s how you get Mexico to pay for the border wall. You apparently have a wildly inaccurate idea of who pays import taxes. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2017, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/6 "2017-09-07T20:56:57Z")
I’ve heard rumblings that Dem leaders would be amenable to border security funding in exchange for getting DACA made into law. I don’t know if that means wall money or not but it could. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2017, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/7 "2017-09-07T22:28:12Z")
Here’s the thing about the wall - it’s just another Federal boondoggle program that’s going to suck up about $50-500 billion all told for something that will never be completed and will be obsolete the day it is designed. So, as a Dem in Texas, uh, sure… y’all want to throw 20-200 billion at my state, in some of the poorest areas of the country in a massive federal program the likes of which we have not seen started since the 1960s? Sure, go right ahead. By all means. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2017, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/8 "2017-09-08T11:45:15Z")
Here’s what I don’t get about people who want a wall. A wall is useless without ICE agents\* manning it. People will just climb over an unmanned wall. On the other hand if you do have enough border agents to man such a wall, they would probably be able to do the job of apprehendeding people who cross the border just as well without the wall. It’s not the lack of a physical barrier that allows people to cross the border away from the regular checkpoints, it’s a lack of border agents. Building a wall won’t fix that. - I do realize that we would need a huge number of agents if we were to try to adequately watch the border. I think the whole project is just too impractical to carry out in the real world. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2017, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/9 "2017-09-08T11:56:08Z")
I would also like to add that while I think the project of building a wall at the border is impractical, I don’t have a problem in theory with trying to control the border. If Democrats want to compromise and give Republicans border security in exchange for allowing the Dreamers permanent status, I’m all for that. The Dreamers had no choice in coming over. Adults who are presently crossing do have the option not to come. If the trade off is allowing those who came here due to someone else’s choice to stay while at the same time trying to prevent others from making that same choice in the future, I have no problem with that. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2017, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/10 "2017-09-08T11:58:24Z")
See? It’s a jobs program as well as an infrastructure boondoggle! ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2017, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/11 "2017-09-08T13:00:56Z")
> [@leftfield6](#): > > So, in other words, the American taxpayers still pay for his fucking wall? Cause that’s what a tariff on Mexican goods would do. > > Why is that so hard to understand? Do you know how tariffs work? > > Fuck Trump and his wall. > [@TimeWinder](#): > > You apparently have a wildly inaccurate idea of who pays import taxes. I think I understand how tariffs work. Did you know that no one wants other countries to tariff their products? If it costs them nothing, why don’t they like it? Yes, tariffs increase costs of imported goods it also puts pricing pressure on the exporter. So in a very real sense, tariffs impose a cost on the exporter. I don’t give a shit about the wall. Liberals are falling on their swords for too much (barely) symbolic shit these days and diluting their message against stuff that really matters. Who gives a shit if Trump wastes a few billion dollars on a stupid fucking wall that won’t achieve anything. if we can get through the next 4 years and only be out of pocket a few billion dollars, I will consider that a huge success for the country. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2017, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/12 "2017-09-08T13:06:47Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > In a heartbeat. They won’t (I hope) fall for something as stupid as that. > [@Ravenman](#): > > Absolutely zero chance that the Dems would vote for such a bill. It’s not only a bad idea, it’s a terrible deal. Why trade something that has pretty substantial bipartisan support and strong popular support (Dreamers) for something that is divisive and a political loser (having Americans pay for the wall with higher taxes on tequilla and cars)? Because Republicans hold both chambers of congress and they will continue to hold both chambers for at least the next year and 4 months. They need a law in the next 6 months to avoid putting the dreamers in jeopardy, Democrats cannot force a vote on anything unless Ryan and McConnell agree and if McConnell can slow roll a fucking supreme court nomination for over a year I guaran-fucking-tee you that he can slow roll the Dream Act. You need both chambers of congress to just shove shit through and your no compromise stances are admirable if you don’t mind getting nothing done. So the Democrats can throw the dreamers under the bus for the sake of principle on the wall or they can give trump his stupid fucking wall and get real meaningful legislation done. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2017, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/13 "2017-09-08T13:20:56Z")
Which encourages the strategy of opening your offer with “I’m going to punch you in the face two times,” but compromising it down to one time. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2017, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/14 "2017-09-08T13:35:16Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I think I understand how tariffs work. Do you understand how trade wars work? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2017, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/15 "2017-09-08T13:54:42Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I think I understand how tariffs work. > > Did you know that no one wants other countries to tariff their products? If it costs them nothing, why don’t they like it? Yes, tariffs increase costs of imported goods it also puts pricing pressure on the exporter. So in a very real sense, tariffs impose a cost on the exporter. > > I don’t give a shit about the wall. Liberals are falling on their swords for too much (barely) symbolic shit these days and diluting their message against stuff that really matters. Who gives a shit if Trump wastes a few billion dollars on a stupid fucking wall that won’t achieve anything. if we can get through the next 4 years and only be out of pocket a few billion dollars, I will consider that a huge success for the country. But mexico will not be paying those tariffs, us citizens will. Mexico’s economy may be harmed by decreased exports, but that is not them paying for it. What is paying for it is americans paying higher prices on goods imported from mexico. In a real sense, tariffs may harm the exporter, but the cost of them is felt by the importers. Quite a number of people do care about Trump wanting to waste more than just a few billion dollars on a pointless wall that is only a symbol of isolationism. You do realize that most estimates put it close to $30billion, and that’s just to build it, not to staff it. If he is holding the dreamers as hostage for that 30 billion, then what does it incentivize him to do if we give in? Trump’s proposal will hurt the mexican economy, will hurt the US economy, will increase the cost of goods we purchase, and serve no purpose other than to show off to the rest of the world how isolationist we have become. Do we have to give in to every one of trumps stupid wasteful ideas that will cause harm to our country because he is threatening someone? IF he says that he will get sessions to lay off the medical marijuana states if the govt ponies up a few billion to renovate trump tower, should we just give him that too? If he threatens to nuke california unless we spend a trillion on building a sea wall in front of all his golf properties? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2017, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/16 "2017-09-08T15:14:35Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post > > I don’t give a shit about the wall Every broken Trump promise helps the good guys in 2018 and 2020 (or so one would hope) ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2017, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/17 "2017-09-08T16:28:37Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Because Republicans hold both chambers of congress and they will continue to hold both chambers for at least the next year and 4 months. They need a law in the next 6 months to avoid putting the dreamers in jeopardy, Democrats cannot force a vote on anything unless Ryan and McConnell agree and if McConnell can slow roll a fucking supreme court nomination for over a year I guaran-fucking-tee you that he can slow roll the Dream Act. You need both chambers of congress to just shove shit through and your no compromise stances are admirable if you don’t mind getting nothing done. > > So the Democrats can throw the dreamers under the bus for the sake of principle on the wall or they can give trump his stupid fucking wall and get real meaningful legislation done. Democrats aren’t the ones in jeopardy here. Every single Dreamer knows that Dems are in their corner, and they know that Republicans are the reason why they don’t already have some sort of legal status already. Dems know damn well that getting DACA with no wall is a reasonable position. I would think the vast majority of Dreamers would think that DACA and the wall is a sell-out position for the Dems. Dems cutting that deal would almost certainly piss off a lot of their supporters: why would they cut a deal that immigration advocates think is terrible? And since your argument relies on using swear words, let me just chime in with my own fuck fuck fuck not a fucking snowball’s chance in hell. ETA: And oh yeah here’s a fucking cite for my fucking position: [https://hotair.com/archives/2017/09/06/report-dems-open-daca-deal-border-security-no-funding-wall/](https://hotair.com/archives/2017/09/06/report-dems-open-daca-deal-border-security-no-funding-wall/) ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2017, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/18 "2017-09-08T18:43:39Z")
The question is will gringos be willing to pay much higher prices for guacamole and their trendy avocado toast while we ship our _aguacates_ to Europe? And your other winter fruits and vegetables? And your grain producers will set on tons of rotting grain that we will buy from Argentina? The Chinese have lots of money and are very interested in increasing trade. It may be further away but there are a whole lot more customers. You guys really fucked up with that magnificent pendejo you elected. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2017, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/19 "2017-09-08T19:08:15Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#): > > The question is will gringos be willing to pay much higher prices for guacamole and their trendy avocado toast while we ship our _aguacates_ to Europe? And your other winter fruits and vegetables? And your grain producers will set on tons of rotting grain that we will buy from Argentina? The Chinese have lots of money and are very interested in increasing trade. It may be further away but there are a whole lot more customers. You guys really fucked up with that magnificent pendejo you elected. Agreed, but I didn’t vote for him. The US will suffer, we will pay more and have less, but that is the sacrifice we are apparently willing to make in order to have a wall. Mexico will get a lower value on its crops. It is useful that its main trading partner is right next door, so losing us will hurt. But hurting mexico doesn’t actually do anything to pay for the wall. And, I doubt mexico will be hurt as much as we seem to think, as there are, as you say, plenty of other trading partners that would be happy to take the product that is denied to americans. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2017, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/20 "2017-09-09T19:38:57Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > See? It’s a jobs program as well as an infrastructure boondoggle! Yes, it is. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750.md?page=2)