# DACA if Mexico pays for the wall. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 7, 2017, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750 "2017-09-07T19:25:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2017, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/21 "2017-09-09T19:40:57Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#): > > The question is will gringos be willing to pay much higher prices for guacamole and their trendy avocado toast while we ship our _aguacates_ to Europe? And your other winter fruits and vegetables? And your grain producers will set on tons of rotting grain that we will buy from Argentina? The Chinese have lots of money and are very interested in increasing trade. It may be further away but there are a whole lot more customers. You guys really fucked up with that magnificent pendejo you elected. Mexico needs us. 80% of their exports go to the USA. What would a 5% tariff really mean to the USA consumer? Mexican goods are fairly cheap, correct? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2017, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/22 "2017-09-09T19:57:41Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Mexico needs us. 80% of their exports go to the USA. > > What would a 5% tariff really mean to the USA consumer? Mexican goods are fairly cheap, correct? So you’re accepting that Mexico won’t pay for it after all. ---
**Author:** ![Folly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folly/32/3219_2.png) [@Folly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folly)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2017, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/23 "2017-09-09T20:09:07Z")
DACA, when the walls fell. FEMA on the ocean The children of Trumpa…the beast at Maralago. ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2017, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/24 "2017-09-10T12:57:52Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Mexico needs us. 80% of their exports go to the USA. > > What would a 5% tariff really mean to the USA consumer? Mexican goods are fairly cheap, correct? When you start applying punitive tariffs, trade wars are a common result. Yes, most of our exports are to the US but so are most of our imports. You run the risk of losing much of that revenue and the risk of losing jobs in sectors that produce the goods we import. Trump is a complete loser with no idea how to run a country. He appeals mostly to ignorant racists. They don’t have an idea what life on this planet is all about outside of their very small minds. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2017, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/25 "2017-09-10T13:50:52Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#): > > When you start applying punitive tariffs, trade wars are a common result. Yes, most of our exports are to the US but so are most of our imports. You run the risk of losing much of that revenue and the risk of losing jobs in sectors that produce the goods we import. > > Trump is a complete loser with no idea how to run a country. He appeals mostly to ignorant racists. They don’t have an idea what life on this planet is all about outside of their very small minds. Yup. Racist morons. Just what the hell does Trump and his supporters think they are going to do about the Rio Grande? The idea of this wall only takes 5 minutes of thought before realizing what a completely ridiculous idea it is. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2017, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/26 "2017-09-10T14:54:21Z")
> [@Folly](#): > > DACA, when the walls fell. > > FEMA on the ocean > > The children of Trumpa…the beast at Maralago. Dharma and jihad at Tunisia. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2017, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/27 "2017-09-10T16:48:27Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Yup. Racist morons. > > Just what the hell does Trump and his supporters think they are going to do about the Rio Grande? The idea of this wall only takes 5 minutes of thought before realizing what a completely ridiculous idea it is. That’s 4 minutes 53 seconds longer than his attention span. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/28 "2017-09-12T12:51:23Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Do you understand how trade wars work? I think I do and I bet the Mexicans do too. Do you think they’ll want to respond with tit for tat? If we go full blown nuclear trade war with Mexico, they go from losing a few billion dollars out of their economy to losing 15% of their economy while we would lose something like 1%. ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/29 "2017-09-12T13:04:06Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I think I do and I bet the Mexicans do too. Do you think they’ll want to respond with tit for tat? If we go full blown nuclear trade war with Mexico, they go from losing a few billion dollars out of their economy to losing 15% of their economy while we would lose something like 1%. But, just so we are clear, you do understand that a tariff imposed on Mexican goods means US citizens are paying for the wall, right? The flip comments about 5% more for avocado toast make for good internet banter, but the reality is much different. These are Mexico exports to the US in 2015 (last year a summary is available) > [@](#): > > Vehicles $74 Billion (Passenger cars, Vehicle parts) > > Electrical Machinery $63 Billion (Flat screen TVs , Electrical Generators, Monitors) > > Machinery $49 Billion > > Crude Oil $14 Billion > > Medical Instruments $12 Billion > > Fresh Vegetables $4.8 Billion (Avocados, Tomatoes) > > Fresh Fruits $4.3 Billion > > Alcoholic Beverages $2.7 Billion (Beer, Tequila) > > Rubber $2.4 Billion > > Snack Foods $1.7 Billion > > Processed Fruits and Vegetables $1.4 Billion (source – [What Does Mexico Export to the US? – Inside Mexico](https://www.inside-mexico.com/what-does-mexico-export-to-the-us/)) Taking all foodstuffs out of the above, it still means the US citizens are going to pay an additional $10.72 billion dollars in tariffs. Add the foodstuffs back in, and that number rises to $11.34 billion. $11,340,000,000. Not from Mexico. From you and me. US taxpayers. So much winning. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/30 "2017-09-12T13:04:07Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > But mexico will not be paying those tariffs, us citizens will. > > Mexico’s economy may be harmed by decreased exports, but that is not them paying for it. > > What is paying for it is americans paying higher prices on goods imported from mexico. > > In a real sense, tariffs may harm the exporter, but the cost of them is felt by the importers. You realize that the reason countries implement trade barriers is because there are benefits to protectionism right? If we impose a 10% tariff on Mexican products, the cost of Mexican imports does not rise by 10%. Some of that tariff is offset by a lower price, in fact, depending on what the demand and supply curve looks like for their products, much of that 10% could be borne by Mexico while creating more opportunities for domestic production. Mercantilism wasn’t a thing for centuries because it made absolutely no sense. > [@](#): > > Quite a number of people do care about Trump wanting to waste more than just a few billion dollars on a pointless wall that is only a symbol of isolationism. You do realize that most estimates put it close to $30billion, and that’s just to build it, not to staff it. If he is holding the dreamers as hostage for that 30 billion, then what does it incentivize him to do if we give in? OK, so you’re willing to throw the dreamers under the bus for sake of principle? > [@](#): > > Trump’s proposal will hurt the mexican economy, will hurt the US economy, will increase the cost of goods we purchase, and serve no purpose other than to show off to the rest of the world how isolationist we have become. Do we have to give in to every one of trumps stupid wasteful ideas that will cause harm to our country because he is threatening someone? Yes, that’s how hostage taking usually works. If there is a credible threat to the hostage you either sacrifice the hostage on the “we don’t negotiate with hostage takers” principle or you give the hostage takers what they want in exchange for the hostages. > [@](#): > > IF he says that he will get sessions to lay off the medical marijuana states if the govt ponies up a few billion to renovate trump tower, should we just give him that too? Do you think Republicans would support that? Lets pick a less ridiculous example. Lets say that Trump says he will back the legalization of marijuana law but he wants to tax recreational marijuana and he wants the tax to pay for the wall. > [@](#): > > If he threatens to nuke california unless we spend a trillion on building a sea wall in front of all his golf properties? :rolleyes: I’m pretty sure he would lose support over that. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/31 "2017-09-12T13:06:07Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Every broken Trump promise helps the good guys in 2018 and 2020 (or so one would hope) You really think that broken promises are going to make a difference hen he can just point to the Democrats and say “those obstructionists wouldn’t respect the will of the people and I tried but those Democrats… well you know what they’re like” ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/32 "2017-09-12T13:16:31Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > You realize that the reason countries implement trade barriers is because there are benefits to protectionism right? There you have it; proof positive that there are benefits to fighting a war in Russia during the winter (hey, nobody would have done it if that weren’t so, amirite?). ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/33 "2017-09-12T13:52:14Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Democrats aren’t the ones in jeopardy here. Every single Dreamer knows that Dems are in their corner, and they know that Republicans are the reason why they don’t already have some sort of legal status already. > > Dems know damn well that getting DACA with no wall is a reasonable position. What does the Dems opinion of reasonable have to do with anything. The Pubs don’t ever have to bring up the DREAM Act and they certainly don’t have to bring up a clean DREAM Act. > [@](#): > > I would think the vast majority of Dreamers would think that DACA and the wall is a sell-out position for the Dems. Dems cutting that deal would almost certainly piss off a lot of their supporters: why would they cut a deal that immigration advocates think is terrible? > > And since your argument relies on using swear words, let me just chime in with my own fuck fuck fuck not a fucking snowball’s chance in hell. > > ETA: And oh yeah here’s a fucking cite for my fucking position: [https://hotair.com/archives/2017/09/06/report-dems-open-daca-deal-border-security-no-funding-wall/](https://hotair.com/archives/2017/09/06/report-dems-open-daca-deal-border-security-no-funding-wall/) How does my argument rely on the use of swear words? It is a simple fucking fact that McConnell and Ryan don’t ever have to bring up the DREAM Act. And your cite is an opinion piece. I bet there is some conservative opinion piece out there that is insisting that conservatives are holding all the cards so they should play hardball and considering that the House, the Senate, The White House, more than twice as many Governor’s Mansions, more than twice as many Republican State Legislatures as there are Democratic State Legislatures, it is just as plausible as your opinion piece. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/34 "2017-09-12T15:05:06Z")
Tariffs against Mexico will greatly increase illegal immigration. If Mexico is hurt, it will drop out of the Southern Border Plan, which is what presently is holding back a flood of Central Americans who previously transited Mexico on their way to illegally entering the USA. On top of this, the more Mexico is hurt, the more Mexican economic refugees will sneak into the USA. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/35 "2017-09-12T15:16:02Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Tariffs against Mexico will greatly increase illegal immigration. > > If Mexico is hurt, it will drop out of the Southern Border Plan, which is what presently is holding back a flood of Central Americans who previously transited Mexico on their way to illegally entering the USA. > > On top of this, the more Mexico is hurt, the more Mexican economic refugees will sneak into the USA. Buh buh buh TEH WALLL!!!111oneone!1 Frankly, the only way the wall has any value is if they design it so it can be picked up in sections, transported cross-country, and laid down as bridges. Because that’s the actual infrastructure boondoggle we need. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/36 "2017-09-12T15:32:53Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/37 "2017-09-12T16:20:53Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > What does the Dems opinion of reasonable have to do with anything. The Pubs don’t ever have to bring up the DREAM Act and they certainly don’t have to bring up a clean DREAM Act. This seems to be the same type of warped thinking that drives Donald Trump to think that if he lets the ACA health exchanges fail, then Dems will rush come to him begging for a health care bill. ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/38 "2017-09-13T04:59:53Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > You realize that the reason countries implement trade barriers is because there are benefits to protectionism right? If we impose a 10% tariff on Mexican products, the cost of Mexican imports does not rise by 10%. Some of that tariff is offset by a lower price, in fact, depending on what the demand and supply curve looks like for their products, much of that 10% could be borne by Mexico while creating more opportunities for domestic production. Mercantilism wasn’t a thing for centuries because it made absolutely no sense. I know very well how protectionism works. Prior to NAFTA we had a protectionist economic policy for decades. If you think it benefits your country’s economy you are quite mistaken. Domestic products that have no competition on price or quality do not benefit the consumer. Quality will decline and prices will rise. That is the reality of protectionism. ---
**Author:** ![Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_Arachnid_Laser_1)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/39 "2017-09-13T06:07:57Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Tariffs against Mexico will greatly increase illegal immigration. > > If Mexico is hurt, it will drop out of the Southern Border Plan, which is what presently is holding back a flood of Central Americans who previously transited Mexico on their way to illegally entering the USA. > > On top of this, the more Mexico is hurt, the more Mexican economic refugees will sneak into the USA. Not to mention that protectionism is a two way street, and Mexico would probably put their own tariffs on U.S. products. Why does everybody keep forgetting that Mexico means 127 million clients, here? ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/40 "2017-09-13T15:47:48Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#): > > I know very well how protectionism works. Prior to NAFTA we had a protectionist economic policy for decades. If you think it benefits your country’s economy you are quite mistaken. Domestic products that have no competition on price or quality do not benefit the consumer. Quality will decline and prices will rise. That is the reality of protectionism. A fairly common mis-apprehension is that protectionism is for the good of the consumer. Protectionism is good for consumers the way that cattle chutes at processing plants are good for cattle. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750.md?page=3)