# DACA if Mexico pays for the wall. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 7, 2017, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750 "2017-09-07T19:25:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/41 "2017-09-13T16:13:06Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > This seems to be the same type of warped thinking that drives Donald Trump to think that if he lets the ACA health exchanges fail, then Dems will rush come to him begging for a health care bill. I don’t know that the Republicans are super duper keen on passing the dream act and are just waiting for the Democrats to throw in something to sweeten the pot. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/42 "2017-09-13T16:16:17Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#): > > I know very well how protectionism works. Prior to NAFTA we had a protectionist economic policy for decades. If you think it benefits your country’s economy you are quite mistaken. Domestic products that have no competition on price or quality do not benefit the consumer. Quality will decline and prices will rise. That is the reality of protectionism. I don’t recall saying that the tariff would be prohibitive giving domestic producers an effective MONOPOLY. I’m pretty sure I said 10%, that doesn’t even cover the difference in cost of labor between the US and Mexico. And protectionism is rampant all over the world in developed and indusstrialized countries because they like how it works out for them. Ask France, ask Germany, ask Japan, they all practice protectionism to some degree. The unfettered free market simply isn’t the panacea some people seem to think it is. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/43 "2017-09-13T16:18:36Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > A fairly common mis-apprehension is that protectionism is for the good of the consumer. > > Protectionism is good for consumers the way that cattle chutes at processing plants are good for cattle. Protectionism is good for domestic suppliers, that includes domestic suppliers of labor. It is bad for domestic consumers but depending on the situation it can be much more good for producers of labor than it is bad for consumers. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/44 "2017-09-13T17:06:30Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Protectionism is good for domestic suppliers, that includes domestic suppliers of labor. It is bad for domestic consumers but depending on the situation it can be much more good for producers of labor than it is bad for consumers. … according to politicians and fringe economists. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/45 "2017-09-13T20:09:59Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > … according to politicians and fringe economists. I don’t think any economist is going to argue that protectionism is bad for those being protected. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/46 "2017-09-13T20:47:50Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I don’t know that the Republicans are super duper keen on passing the dream act and are just waiting for the Democrats to throw in something to sweeten the pot. The latest polls show that roughly 15% of Americans think Dreamers should be deported. If it becomes an election issue (starts in 6 months, deportations starting roughly 3-6 months after that, so mid-summer 2018), are Republicans willing to go to the voting booth with 3/4 of the population thinking they’re idiots? Despite what Trump and his minions may claim, whatever is happening in DC is not the fault of Democrats. Why should they be making concessions? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/47 "2017-09-13T22:22:24Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Here’s the thing about the wall - it’s just another Federal boondoggle program that’s going to suck up about $50-500 billion all told for something that will never be completed and will be obsolete the day it is designed. > > So, as a Dem in Texas, uh, sure… y’all want to throw 20-200 billion at my state, in some of the poorest areas of the country in a massive federal program the likes of which we have not seen started since the 1960s? Sure, go right ahead. By all means. 😃 It’d be built on top of agricultural land, much of it owned by _chicanos._ The wall may be money spent in Texas, but it’d be an attack on the property & livelihoods of people who actually live by the Rio Grande. No Texas governor would be fool enough to propose it, and your state’s governors are known to typically be fools. It’s an act of war on _tejanos_ by a Scotsman/New Yorker who’s never lived in Texas. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/48 "2017-09-13T22:29:43Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Which encourages the strategy of opening your offer with “I’m going to punch you in the face two times,” but compromising it down to one time. Or, “I won’t punch these kids over there in the face; but that’s if you let me declare eminent domain on a bunch of farmland and destroy it, which otherwise would have no chance or passing.” I’m a big government socialist, but in this case, the government would be doing things to other people that make pure anarchy sound better. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/49 "2017-09-14T01:23:18Z")
I can’t seem to multi-quote, so I lost the post I was going to respond to. Anyway… I will grant that protectionism has some social utility, but the point of it is certainly _not_ to lower the price demanded by an exporting country for goods they sell to you. If that _were_ the effect, it could be drastically economically counter-productive. It would mean a thumb depressing the economy of that exporting country, and meanwhile your country would gain none of the benefits of protectionism as generally understood. The point of protectionism is not to punish foreign exporters, but to tax your own citizens for buying foreign goods. The idea is that the retail price of foreign goods will go up, and your country’s consumers will buy domestic goods, propping up domestic industry as part of an industrial policy. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/50 "2017-09-14T02:28:34Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I must have heard just about every Democrat asking for a “clean” dreamers bill… > > If I were Trump, I would put together bill that gives permanent residency to dreamers and taxes Mexican imports to pay for the border wall. And that’s how you get Mexico to pay for the border wall. I just read a story on WaPo (can’t link, it is in an app) that starts: > [@](#): > > President Trump and top Democratic leaders late Wednesday agreed to work out an agreement that would protect the nation’s “dreamers” from deportation and enact border security measures that don’t include building a physical wall, according to people familiar with the meeting. Art of the deal, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/51 "2017-09-14T02:59:09Z")
Here’s more from TPM: [http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/interesting](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/interesting) ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/52 "2017-09-14T03:10:35Z")
Sometimes I think they’re just playing him: “Donald, watch. We’ll announce a deal and you will become popular again…” (later) “See? Let’s do another one!” ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/53 "2017-09-14T13:14:51Z")
The fact that the Democrats can bury him with his base simply by hugging him seems to be lost on him. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/54 "2017-09-14T13:25:12Z")
_No one really knows how the game is played The art of the trade How the sausage gets made_ So Trump’s agreed to legislative DACA, and a border security package (that does not include the wall), but he’s free to keep independently pushing the wall. Wow. he _ **is** _ a masterful negotiator. :rolleyes: This is a good outcome, though, so perhaps I shouldn’t snark. But just sayin’, if I had to pick the winning negotiator here, it would not be Trump. Good. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/55 "2017-09-14T13:51:44Z")
Just let’s not gloat too loud or he’ll double down on something just as bad or worse just to get the basketful to cheer again. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/56 "2017-09-14T13:59:02Z")
And, in a move that NOBODY could have predicted, Trump is denying there’s a deal. Sorta. > [@](#): > > “No deal was made last night on DACA. Massive border security would have to be agreed to in exchange for consent. Would be subject to vote,” Trump tweeted. . . . > > Speaking briefly to reporters shortly after his tweet, Trump said he and the Democratic leaders were close to a deal on the Obama-era Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program, but that any agreement would hinge on “massive border security,” _adding that funding for a border wall will come “a little bit later.”_ What a joke. This guy is the worst negotiator I’ve ever seen. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/57 "2017-09-14T14:29:48Z")
Donald then went on to tweet: > [@Yep](#): > > [x.com](https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/908276308265795585) > > Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump 4h4 hours ago > > Does anybody really want to throw out good, educated and accomplished young people who have jobs, some serving in the military? Really!.. > [x.com](https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/908278070611779585) > > …They have been in our country for many years through no fault of their own - brought in by parents at young age. Plus BIG border security He’s just losing it. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/58 "2017-09-14T14:37:09Z")
I remember reading a book about winning tactics in car buying, and the author used vignettes of a fictional salesman to illustrate his points. In one, the salesman shows how easily he flummoxes a customer who is convinced he can’t be taken, because he, the customer, is a life insurance salesman and knows all the sales tricks. As an aside, the author added that our antihero car salesman carries very expensive and unneeded life insurance, because he, too, was “taken,” when he dealt with his own insurance salesman. The lesson was that while there may be principles applicable to sales generically, there are enough complexities in both car and life insurance sales to make them unique, and mastering one field means little to success in the other. I have no strong opinion on Trump’s mastery of the art of the real estate deal; I have a general impression he’s better than average based on his success. But that skill, if indeed he has it, does not map at all to the world of political deal making. He’s a supremely overconfident utter novice, a walking illustration of Dunning Kroger, so uninformed that he lacks the tools to assess his own lack of competence. ---
**Author:** ![Crybaby\_Boobie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crybaby_boobie/32/545_2.png) [@Crybaby\_Boobie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crybaby_Boobie)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/59 "2017-09-14T14:45:21Z")
“Does anybody really want to throw out good, educated and accomplished young people who have jobs, some serving in the military? Really!..” So serving in the military is a good thing right? Unless you are transgender, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/60 "2017-09-14T16:58:40Z")
In Florida today to look at Irma damage, Donald was asked to clarify the whole DACA things - > **[Trump: I’m Not Interested In ‘Amnesty,’ Just Letting DACA Recipients Stay](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/trump-says-not-interested-in-amnesty-daca-democrats)** > > President Donald Trump on Thursday said he was not interested for "amnesty" for undocumented immigrants protected by the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program, but he wants to let them… > [@Donald Trump via TPM article](#): > > “We’re not looking at citizenship. We’re not looking at amnesty. We’re looking at allowing people to stay here,” Trump told reporters in Fort Myers, Florida, citing an outcome which would be practically identical to amnesty. > > “We’re talking about taking care of people, people that were brought here, people that have done a good job and were not brought here of their own volition,” he added. > > Trump said his administration is “working with everybody” to achieve that. > > “Republican, we’re working with Democrat. I just spoke with Paul Ryan. He’s on board. Everybody is on board,” Trump said. “They want to do something.” > > Asked about Republicans who are not, in fact, on board with his tentative steps toward a deal, Trump insisted that he was “doing it in conjunction with the Republicans.” > > “We have a very, very good relationship with a lot of people,” he said. “A lot of people want this to happen, they expect it to happen and we’ll see if it happens.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750.md?page=4)