# DACA if Mexico pays for the wall. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 7, 2017, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750 "2017-09-07T19:25:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/141 "2019-01-04T17:47:47Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > How much do you think we export to Mexico? > > We export more to China. > > … Do you have a cite for this? According to this ([United States Exports By Country](https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/exports-by-country)), we exported almost twice as much to Mexico than China in 2017. It’s possible this has grown even wider since the trade ware with China, right? I know that soybean exports to China, for example, are way down. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/142 "2019-01-04T17:48:41Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Who knows? He literally got a bill with **$25,000,000,000** in wall funding and [still shot it down](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-12-13/how-trump-let-his-goal-of-building-a-border-wall-slip-away). > > Fuck him. There’s no need to give in to this weakling. Well, its very difficult to get anything done without him, overriding his veto is not a realistic possibility. So either you deal with him or everyone can just go home until 2021. Republicans have been acting this way since we were negotiating Obamacare. Trump just does it without any pretense of statesmanship. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/143 "2019-01-04T17:49:46Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If it had DACA in it, and Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh started complaining, then I think it’s quite likely he’d veto it. Well, then make him veto it. The senate republicans are close to calling Trump on his veto threats, they don’t really believe him either. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/144 "2019-01-04T17:55:32Z")
Wait. Is “overriding his veto not a realistic possibility” or are “the senate republicans… close to calling Trump on his veto threats”? Which is it? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/145 "2019-01-04T17:58:21Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > I would also like to add that while I think the project of building a wall at the border is impractical, I don’t have a problem in theory with trying to control the border. . Why do we need to “control the border”? We dont try to control our border with Canada. And, if anyone wants Mexico to pay for the wall, just put a tariff on cash remittances to Mexico. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/146 "2019-01-04T18:00:10Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > “$557 billion traded with a $71 billion deficit.” > > [U.S. Trade Deficit by Country: Current Stats, Issues](https://www.thebalance.com/trade-deficit-by-county-3306264) > > US trade is a MUCH larger portion of the Mexican economy than Mexican trade is of the US economy. > > Mexico loses trade wars with the USA badly. Tariffs are stupid. Just put a excise tax on cash remittances to Mexico via wire. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/147 "2019-01-04T18:09:00Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > That was quite a humiliating moment for Pence He’s used to it by now. I think he sold his self-respect to Mr. Scratch when he agreed to run on a Trump ticket, a role literally nobody else wanted. > [@Ravenman](#): > > The real cherry on top was when Trump pleaded for Dems to compromise, because if they didn’t agree to wall funding, it would make Trump look bad. > > He is the single worst negotiator I have ever seen. He’s also run multiple oceanfront casinos—a business with a statically guaranteed gross profit as long as you can get people to the tables and slots—into bankruptcy, as well as ill-advised bspusiness ventures in an alternative football league, steaks sold through Shaper Image stores, a “universiy” that cost im a $25M payout for defrauding customers, and getting into the home mortgage industry in 2007. Trump may be one of the worst business leaders and investors I’ve ever seen. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > “$557 billion traded with a $71 billion deficit.” > > [U.S. Trade Deficit by Country: Current Stats, Issues](https://www.thebalance.com/trade-deficit-by-county-3306264) > > US trade is a MUCH larger portion of the Mexican economy than Mexican trade is of the US economy. > > Mexico loses trade wars with the USA badly. Nobody ‘wins’ in trade wars except in the sense of paying a premium to bend another country to their will at the negotiating table. These stupid ‘trade wars’ with Mexico, Canada, China, Germany, et cetera are only serving to hurt American consumers and reduce domestic employment. Trump is the only person I know who would lose at Monopoly on his first turn around the board. A seven year old girl could outwit him without trying. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/148 "2019-01-04T18:15:20Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Guess you just stopped right there, and missed: > > Didn’t crater (which was hyperbole), but that’s more jobs than the steel industry in it’s entirety employs. Manufacturers are already line-iteming the “tariff fees” that result in higher prices for the consumer. You know, Americans who are actually paying for the tariffs. So you didn’t mean to use the word cratered, but you used it anyway? :rolleyes: That’s mostly what I was taking issue with, your hyperbole. CITAC is a pro-free trade industry trade group. It’s weird seeing you citing industry trade groups, but whatever. The international trade commission on the other hand is “an independent, bipartisan, quasi-judicial, federal agency of the United States that provides trade expertise to both the legislative and executive branches. Furthermore, the agency determines[4] the impact of imports on U.S. industries and directs actions against unfair trade practices” > **[United States International Trade Commission](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_International_Trade_Commission)** > > The United States International Trade Commission (USITC or I.T.C.) is an agency of the United States federal government that advises the legislative and executive branches on matters of trade. It is an independent, bipartisan\[which?\]\[clarification needed\] entity that analyzes trade issues such as tariffs and competitiveness and publishes reports. As a quasi-judicial entity, the USITC investigates the impact of imports on U.S. industries, and directs actions against unfair trade practices, such Th... The ITC cast some shade on the CITAC report. As I stated before, I don’t think steel tariffs are a good idea generally (unless our steel production falls below our military needs). Tariffs work better on finished products than on inputs and raw materials. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/149 "2019-01-04T18:17:43Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Do you have a cite for this? According to this ([United States Exports By Country](https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/exports-by-country)), we exported almost twice as much to Mexico than China in 2017. It’s possible this has grown even wider since the trade ware with China, right? I know that soybean exports to China, for example, are way down. You are correct. I was looking a the wrong column (gross trade). ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/150 "2019-01-04T18:18:54Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Wait. Is “overriding his veto not a realistic possibility” or are “the senate republicans… close to calling Trump on his veto threats”? > > Which is it? Both. They are close to saying “OK Trump, here’s a bill with DACA and your fucking WALL, take it or leave it” If trump vetoes, they will not override. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/151 "2019-01-04T18:20:44Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Tariffs are stupid. > > Just put a excise tax on cash remittances to Mexico via wire. I agree that tariffs with Mexico are stupid. NOT all tariffs are stupid. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/152 "2019-01-04T18:49:22Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I agree that tariffs with Mexico are stupid. NOT all tariffs are stupid. More or less they are. Now if they are in response to another nations tariff, then fine. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/153 "2019-01-04T20:02:56Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > He’s used to it by now. I think he sold his self-respect to Mr. Scratch when he agreed to run on a Trump ticket, a role literally nobody else wanted. > > He’s also run multiple oceanfront casinos—a business with a statically guaranteed gross profit as long as you can get people to the tables and slots—into bankruptcy, as well as ill-advised bspusiness ventures in an alternative football league, steaks sold through Shaper Image stores, a “universiy” that cost im a $25M payout for defrauding customers, and getting into the home mortgage industry in 2007. Trump may be one of the worst business leaders and investors I’ve ever seen. > > Nobody ‘wins’ in trade wars except in the sense of paying a premium to bend another country to their will at the negotiating table. These stupid ‘trade wars’ with Mexico, Canada, China, Germany, et cetera are only serving to hurt American consumers and reduce domestic employment. Trump is the only person I know who would lose at Monopoly on his first turn around the board. A seven year old girl could outwit him without trying. > > Stranger International trade isn’t as simple as that. Protectionism and mercantilism are close cousins (colonialism is a distant cousin) and several empires thrived on mercantilism and colonialism. Throughout the cold war, our trade policy was a part of our foreign policy. Where other countries sent armies of economists to trade negotiations, we sent armies of diplomats. This was probably smart during the cold war but not as smart these days. Nobody wins a trade war in the same sense that noone wins an actual war. Both sides have casualties. But some wars need to be fought nonetheless. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/154 "2019-01-04T20:07:51Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > More or less they are. Now if they are in response to another nations tariff, then fine. No really. If Mexico retaliates and we up the ante, etc. etc. etc., at some point we get some supply line disruption and mexico suffers from a deep recession. There are plenty of other rational bases for tariffs. Ask Paul Krugman about the topic of his nobel prize in economics. I bet he would say that tariffs that are levied to help foster a nascent industry in order to gain better comparative advantages can make you better off in the long run. Ask the mergcanilists about how you can extract tariffs without fear of much retaliation. Ask China how they feel about the US tariffs and if they think they can keep it up or if they might have to come to the negotiating table to see what the US wants to drop the tariffs. ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750/155 "2019-01-04T23:46:28Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Ask Paul Krugman about the topic of his nobel prize in economics. I bet he would say that tariffs that are levied to help foster a nascent industry in order to gain better comparative advantages can make you better off in the long run. That may be; I’m not aware of precisely what circumstances under which Krugman would find protectionism acceptable, but I believe he’s said that there are in theory occasions where it may be the best available option. But he’s quite clearly on the record that Trump’s excursions into protectionsm are not a good idea: [Redirect Notice](https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiJkar3pdXfAhVoTt8KHSLSBYYQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2018%2F12%2F13%2Fopinion%2Ftrump-wall-trade-tariffs.html&psig=AOvVaw2KFx9Hhzk5VFoXKdttwBJj&ust=1546731485531713) Truthfully I’m not sure how worthwhile it is to discuss whether we can sometimes justify tariffs. Are they a good idea _now_ against Mexico and China? That idea doesn’t appear to have much support. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daca-if-mexico-pays-for-the-wall/795750.md?page=7)