# Dad abandons drowning son to save wife. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 2, 2009, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dad-abandons-drowning-son-to-save-wife/519672 "2009-12-02T05:03:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dad-abandons-drowning-son-to-save-wife/519672/41 "2009-12-02T21:09:16Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > ETA: I’ve heard that smashing a car window from inside the car is harder than most people think it is, too. It would be harder to smash anything under water than it would be outside the water, just because the water provides resistance to the motion of whatever you’re using to smash something. I saw some TV show on one of the public networks we get through the bunny ears that was all about various escapes. The reporter got to escape from various scenarios with an additional safety crew standing by in case she screwed it up. One of them was an escape from sinking vehicle. It was actually pretty cool and scary. You’re supposed to _help the water get in_. When there is enough water in the car, the pressure will be equalized enough to be able to open the door. They recommended removing your seatbelt _last_, strangely enough, so that you don’t float around and lose your spatial reference. A center punch (emergency tool) or one of those emergency “break glass with hammer” hammers will still work, it doesn’t matter if there is water on the other side of the window. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dad-abandons-drowning-son-to-save-wife/519672/42 "2009-12-02T21:22:13Z")
> [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](#): > > A center punch (emergency tool) or one of those emergency “break glass with hammer” hammers will still work, it doesn’t matter if there is water on the other side of the window. I was thinking of trying to smash the window once the car had filled with water, when you’d have to move the hammer (or whatever) through the water. I wonder if modern door locks, that seem to me at least to be harder to grip than the old-fashioned kind (presumably to make it harder for a thief to unlock a door with a coat hanger?), would make it harder to escape from a submerged car. I could see them being hard to get a grip on under water. I wonder if power door locks make a difference, too- power windows do. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dad-abandons-drowning-son-to-save-wife/519672/43 "2009-12-02T21:23:09Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Hey **Cellphone** , where are you getting your info about this? I did a search of Google News links and had to cobble together events from several version, but one was more thorough than the others. The article that said they were out doing some kind of charity work was from the Wangaui Chronicle. It is also the article that said they got home to see the vandals and followed them in the car and pulled up onto the grass before the car slid into the water. A UK news source (the Mirror maybe) said the boy was likely unconcious (or quoted the dad saying something along those lines) and said police believe that car slid on wet grass. There was another one I can’t find now because my links are no longer showing me which ones were visited, but it was a longer article that quotes the wife saying the car sank really fast and she barely had time to catch half a breath and also quotes her saying she couldn’t tell if she was grabbing at the kid or the seat. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dad-abandons-drowning-son-to-save-wife/519672/44 "2009-12-02T21:24:30Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > I was thinking of trying to smash the window once the car had filled with water, when you’d have to move the hammer (or whatever) through the water. Oh, yeah, that would be like the slow-motion fight scenes. The show I saw said to break the window right away when you hit the water. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dad-abandons-drowning-son-to-save-wife/519672/45 "2009-12-02T23:36:16Z")
I’m surprised that a car that is 3 ft under water was so hard to reach, particularly from fire and rescue. But if fire and rescue couldn’t do it then there must have been some issues involved that made it extremely difficult. ---
**Author:** ![Beadalin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Beadalin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beadalin)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dad-abandons-drowning-son-to-save-wife/519672/46 "2009-12-02T23:44:33Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I’m surprised that a car that is 3 ft under water was so hard to reach, particularly from fire and rescue. It was nose-down, so that adds some depth and logistical problems. ---
**Author:** ![tr0psn4j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@tr0psn4j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tr0psn4j)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dad-abandons-drowning-son-to-save-wife/519672/47 "2009-12-03T00:14:43Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > It was her son too. It’s a choice whose emotional dimensions I hope I never have to come anywhere near making, but I don’t believe there’s a right or wrong choice (other than perhaps saving yourself and doing nothing for either). There kind of is a right choice though. You’re related to your son and should save him. You can always find another wife if you want to continue to reproduce. Unless, you think you cant find another mate, in which case, you might want to save your wife in the hopes of having more offspring. Don’t take this seriously though. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dad-abandons-drowning-son-to-save-wife/519672/48 "2009-12-03T01:52:34Z")
> [@zweisamkeit](#): > > So, how many underwater car rescues have you [Dinsdale] done, then? I mean, seeing as you think the guy should’ve been able to save both, I’m guessing you’re speaking from experience, right? I have made several underwater rescues and underwater self rescues, and a great many waterlevel rescues and waterlevel self rescues, while wild water kayaking and canoeing (no vehicle rescues though). In every instance, the first attempt was the strongest attempt, and I was not as strong on the second attempts on the occasions when a second attempt was necessary. That’s why I figure that if it was too deep for the fellow on the first try, then he most likely would not have succeeded on a second try either. It really does not matter that the water was deep or shallow, or muky or clear, or calm or flowing, or if he was a good swimmer or a poor swimmer, or skilled at rescue or unskilled. The fact of the matter is that whatever the factors were, they added up to his attempt failing. He took his one best shot, and failed. Further weaker attempts would likely also fail. Better that he saved his wife than let her drown while making further futile attempts to rescue his son, and better to stay on shore rather than complicate the professional rescue. The inability of the emergency services to get to his son’s body immediately indicates that he made the right decision. I truly hope that he and his wife and their relationship are able to emotionally survive the grief. ---
**Author:** ![Renee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/renee/32/287_2.png) [@Renee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renee)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dad-abandons-drowning-son-to-save-wife/519672/49 "2009-12-03T03:40:47Z")
> [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](#): > > Oh, yeah, that would be like the slow-motion fight scenes. The show I saw said to break the window right away when you hit the water. That’s all well and good if you’ve got your handy-dandy window hammer in your hand at all times, just in case you run into a river. Seems like kind of unrealistic advice. > [@Magiver](#): > > I’m surprised that a car that is 3 ft under water was so hard to reach, particularly from fire and rescue. But if fire and rescue couldn’t do it then there must have been some issues involved that made it extremely difficult. My thoughts, too. I’m very surprised that the rescue people coudn’t get him out of what couldn’t have been more than 10 feet of water. Sad story. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dad-abandons-drowning-son-to-save-wife/519672/50 "2009-12-03T04:02:24Z")
> [@Renee](#): > > That’s all well and good if you’ve got your handy-dandy window hammer in your hand at all times, just in case you run into a river. Seems like kind of unrealistic advice. You don’t need a window hammer to break a window but it helps. I’d certainly recommend one for women. I say this for anyone who doesn’t know that side and rear windows are designed to granulate when struck unlike front windshields which have a film of plastic in the center to prevent objects from breaking through. ---
**Author:** ![Mangosteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mangosteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangosteen)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dad-abandons-drowning-son-to-save-wife/519672/51 "2009-12-03T04:16:08Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > Even if everybody in the car is a strong swimmer, drive carefully. It’s hard to get out of a car while it’s sinking (_Mythbusters_ did a show on this). You can’t open the doors unless the car is floating or is filled with water- if you try when the door is partially submerged, the water pressure will make it impossible. Of course, once the car is filled with water, you don’t have much time to get out. You may not be able to open the windows if you have power windows, since the electrical system that runs them and water are not a good combination. And many people tend to panic during or after any car accident, so their judgment may not be at its theoretical best. It’s not just a matter of being able to swim. This is exactly why Ted Kennedy lied when he said he got out of the car after he and Mary Jo went off the bridge. Heck, knowing Ted, he was drunk that night. And we are supposed to believe he opened the door (or window) ? Mary Jo was alone at the wheel. Ted wasn’t even in the car. ---
**Author:** ![Purd\_Werfect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e47c2d/32.png) [@Purd\_Werfect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Purd_Werfect)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dad-abandons-drowning-son-to-save-wife/519672/52 "2009-12-03T16:17:31Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > And if the choice had been exactly even with the certain chance to save only one? In that situation, I would rescue my son, as it’s more important to both my wife and me that he live on. I trust she would make the same choice. ---
**Author:** ![VunderBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/839c29/32.png) [@VunderBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VunderBob)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dad-abandons-drowning-son-to-save-wife/519672/53 "2009-12-03T16:36:57Z")
I’m a First Responder, so it colors my answer. You save whichever victim is easiest FIRST. In this case, the wife; if she was in the car and the son was out, then him. Equally in danger, you flip a coin and get whoever is closest. If you try to save the victim in more peril first, the you have non-trivial chances of having 2 or 3 victims, which are greater that the chances of failure where you save the easier victim first. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dad-abandons-drowning-son-to-save-wife/519672/54 "2009-12-03T16:52:31Z")
> [@VunderBob](#): > > I’m a First Responder, so it colors my answer. > > You save whichever victim is easiest FIRST. Great perspective. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dad-abandons-drowning-son-to-save-wife/519672/55 "2009-12-03T17:06:54Z")
> [@Mangosteen](#): > > This is exactly why Ted Kennedy lied when he said he got out of the car after he and Mary Jo went off the bridge. Heck, knowing Ted, he was drunk that night. And we are supposed to believe he opened the door (or window) ? Mary Jo was alone at the wheel. Ted wasn’t even in the car. Huh? Hadn’t heard that theory before. Summer, 1969 – a lot of cars didn’t have A/C back then so the windows were probably already rolled down. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dad-abandons-drowning-son-to-save-wife/519672/56 "2009-12-03T17:16:19Z")
> [@Purd\_Werfect](#): > > In that situation, I would rescue my son, as it’s more important to both my wife and me that he live on. I trust she would make the same choice. My wife and I have actually had that discussion - all other things being equal, save the kids first, then the spouse. > [@Muffin](#): > > I truly hope that he and his wife and their relationship are able to emotionally survive the grief. Me too. They’re going to have enormous problems - each one has a reason to blame the other, if they go down that road. ---
**Author:** ![butler1850](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@butler1850](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/butler1850)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dad-abandons-drowning-son-to-save-wife/519672/57 "2009-12-03T19:46:04Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > My wife and I have actually had that discussion - all other things being equal, save the kids first, then the spouse. > > Me too. They’re going to have enormous problems - each one has a reason to blame the other, if they go down that road. I’ve been given very specific instructions that I’m to save my daughter, or die trying. I’d like to think I’d go along with those instructions, but also hope that I never, ever, have to implement the instruction set. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dad-abandons-drowning-son-to-save-wife/519672/58 "2009-12-03T19:54:59Z")
I remember reading some horrible statistic about couples that have children that die. Something like a 75% divorce rate. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dad-abandons-drowning-son-to-save-wife/519672/59 "2009-12-03T20:16:09Z")
> [@VunderBob](#): > > I’m a First Responder, so it colors my answer. > > You save whichever victim is easiest FIRST. In this case, the wife; if she was in the car and the son was out, then him. Equally in danger, you flip a coin and get whoever is closest. > > If you try to save the victim in more peril first, the you have non-trivial chances of having 2 or 3 victims, which are greater that the chances of failure where you save the easier victim first. That makes sense. Aside from the awfulness of the linked story (having to choose between your wife and your son), the level-headedness of the father really struck me. My husband is also a first responder (works in construction safety), and what he has related to me of the courses he’s taken for it says that our first instinct, to rush in and start saving people, is by no means always the correct one. I hope the couple can get past this tragedy, too - him blaming her for driving their son into a lake, and her blaming him for not doing enough (and him blaming himself too, I’m sure). ---
**Author:** ![Mangosteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mangosteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangosteen)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dad-abandons-drowning-son-to-save-wife/519672/60 "2009-12-03T23:37:54Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > Huh? Hadn’t heard that theory before. > > Summer, 1969 – a lot of cars didn’t have A/C back then so the windows were probably already rolled down. We’re to believe an over weight, out of shape, drunk Ted Kennedy is going to have the wherewithal to squeeze out of a car window after the car has suddenly flown off a bridge a crashed into the water below? He only had seconds to react. The concussion from the shock of hitting the water would knock a lot of people out. The passenger side of the car was smashed in badly yet Mary Jo’s body wasn’t injured. She was in the drivers seat holding on to the steering wheel. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dad-abandons-drowning-son-to-save-wife/519672.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dad-abandons-drowning-son-to-save-wife/519672.md?page=4)