# Dads and daughters...your opinions of Mulan (Disney), please? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 29, 2005, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dads-and-daughters-your-opinions-of-mulan-disney-please/319062 "2005-08-29T04:02:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dads-and-daughters-your-opinions-of-mulan-disney-please/319062/41 "2005-09-05T05:53:26Z")
> [@Laughing Lagomorph](#): > > I realize this is a ridiculous complaint but I think the plot of the movie makes little sense after the avalanche. That should have been the climax, she gets thanked by the Emperor, goes home and reconciles with her father. No. It’s important for the movie’s main theme that Mulan gets recognized for her heroics _as a woman._ If the movie had gone as you suggested, it would have been nothing more than a standard macho-boys-action-movie with a slight “Crying Game” twist. > [@Laughing Lagomorph](#): > > The whole business about the 5 remaining Huns sneaking into the castle just to kill the Emperor (where are you going to go after that?) had me shaking my head in disbelief the first time I saw it. I just don’t see the characters’ motivation. They wanted to finish the mission, to conquer China. As for motivation, “being totally badass” seemed sufficient. 😃 > [@Laughing Lagomorph](#): > > Though I do like Mulan’s idea that the soldiers should sneak into the castle disguised as women…no one knows better than her how women are overlooked in that world. I thought it was a nice thematic twist to the entire premise of the movie, especialy the obvious compare-and-contrast to the military training sequence in the first half. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dads-and-daughters-your-opinions-of-mulan-disney-please/319062/42 "2005-09-05T14:50:33Z")
> [@roger thornhill](#): > > . But I suppose the film and the book (French?) it was based on ? It’s not really a “french book”. It’s a classical tale in France, published during the 18th century, but like most others, it’s originally a popular, and not specifically french, tale. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dads-and-daughters-your-opinions-of-mulan-disney-please/319062/43 "2005-09-05T14:58:28Z")
By the way, thee are various versions on the same theme (the youngest daughter agrees to sacrifice herself in behalf of her father) but not in all the monster turns up to be a charming prince or somesuch. Sometimes, the daughter has to get rid of what is actually a monster. I would note also that there are stories with the youngest son agreeing to marry a frog or mouse that turns up to be a beautiful princess with magical gifts, but I can’t think of an example where a boy would marry a frightening monster. Anyway, I don’t think fairy tales should be judged on the basis of them being PC or not. They’re very unlikely to be so. ---
**Author:** ![FlyingRamenMonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@FlyingRamenMonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyingRamenMonster)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dads-and-daughters-your-opinions-of-mulan-disney-please/319062/44 "2005-09-05T15:10:48Z")
I liked Mulan. I’ll skip through the feminist stuffsish and answer a question of the OP’s that appears to have been ignored: “Fa” is the Cantonese pronounciation of the Mandarin “Hua”. I’ll also take what **clairobscur** said a step further: I dont think anything should be judged on the basis of them being PC or not. What a boring world we’d live in if that were the case. ---
**Author:** ![Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laughing_Lagomorph)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dads-and-daughters-your-opinions-of-mulan-disney-please/319062/45 "2005-09-05T21:28:42Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > … > They wanted to finish the mission, to conquer China. . So that way they finish the mission, conquer China, and then die pointlessly in a surrounded castle. :dubious: > [@rjung](#): > > As for motivation, “being totally badass” seemed sufficient. 😃 > … Yes, totally badass. And stupid. And soon dead. Like I said, for a kid’s movie it doesn’t bother me too much but I still couldn’t see real people acting that way. ---
**Author:** ![Tracy\_Lord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@Tracy\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tracy_Lord)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dads-and-daughters-your-opinions-of-mulan-disney-please/319062/46 "2005-09-05T21:47:56Z")
> [@Laughing Lagomorph](#): > > So that way they finish the mission, conquer China, and then die pointlessly in a surrounded castle. :dubious: > > Yes, totally badass. And stupid. And soon dead. > Like I said, for a kid’s movie it doesn’t bother me too much but I still couldn’t see real people acting that way. What about those Japanese soldiers who they found holed up on those Pacific islands, 30+ years after WWII was over? It’s not like that kind of fanatical devotion to the Cause doesn’t happen in real life. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dads-and-daughters-your-opinions-of-mulan-disney-please/319062/47 "2005-09-05T21:51:50Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > I always have to resist the urge to yell “Huzzah!” when she passes the test. We first saw it in the movie theater, and when she figured out how to get to the arrow wrapping the weights together to use as a counterbalance for her own body I got chills and about melted in awe of her ingenuity. That, plus the music swells right at that point. ---
**Author:** ![dotchan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@dotchan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dotchan)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dads-and-daughters-your-opinions-of-mulan-disney-please/319062/48 "2005-09-05T23:59:39Z")
[The Poem](http://www.ha.xinhuanet.com/zb/shangqiu/mulan/htm/2002424170007.htm) A very rough translation from yours truly: > [@](#): > > Mulan sits weaving in her room; > soon the sounds of the loom ceases, > and only her sighs can be heard. > Asking her what she ponders: > “I think of nothing but the Army Summons, > the Khan calls his troops. > The twelve scrolls bear Father’s name, > but Father has no eldest son and I no elder brother, > so allow me to market and buy a horse > so I can take Father’s place on the front.” > At the East she buys a hansome horse, > the West a sturdy saddle, > the South a shining helmet, > the North a long whip. > At dawn she bids Father and Mother farwell > and rides to the Yellow River. > She hears not their voices, > but the rushing of the troubled waters; > she hears not their voices, > but the neighs of the hourses in the distant mountains. > Thousands of miles they march, > crossing the moutnains as if in flight. > The morning air bears the sound of metal, > the cold light shines from her armor. > After hundreds of battles, the General falls, > after ten years, the warriors return. > The Emperor receives them gladly, > sitting upon the shining throne. > He rewards the twelve chariots > and the ten thousand strong. > Khan asks, “What desires thou?” > Mulan replies, “I have no need for a government post, > merely a fast horse to send me home.” > Father and Mother hear of her return > and support each other to the threshold. > Sister hears of her return, > and dresses in her loveliest robe. > Youngest brother hears of her return, > and sharpens his knives to prepare the meal. > She enters the Eastern door > and sits upon the bed to the West. > Removing her battle dress, > she changes into her old clothes. > She dresses up her hair at the window, > and tucks a yellow flower before the mirror. > She exits the door to greet her comrades, > they all gape with shock. > They walked together for twelve years, > and they knew not that Mulan was a girl! > The buck rabbit paws at the moon, > and the doe rabbit’s eyes glitter. > When the two run side by side, > who can tell which is which? An interesting theory I’ve heard discussed over meals is that Mulan is actually from one of the northern “barbarian” tribes, since Hua is a very uncommon last name. (Note the use of “Khan” and the mention of “chariots”. The poem also contains a lot of geographical locations that I unfortunately know zilch about.) ---
**Author:** ![Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laughing_Lagomorph)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dads-and-daughters-your-opinions-of-mulan-disney-please/319062/49 "2005-09-06T00:31:04Z")
> [@Tracy Lord](#): > > What about those Japanese soldiers who they found holed up on those Pacific islands, 30+ years after WWII was over? It’s not like that kind of fanatical devotion to the Cause doesn’t happen in real life. Well that’s a good real life example of a similar fanaticism. One difference I see though is that the whereas the Japanese soldiers were devoted to a cause (their Empire) the character in the movie (the leader of the bad guys…forget his name) WAS the cause. His ego was the only reason any of the Huns were fighting. It would be as if the Emperor of Japan, instead of agreeing to surrender after Hiroshima and Nagasaki went himself and hid out on one of those Pacific Islands, still fighting the war. The followers may fight to the death but the leaders should be able to recognize a lost cause when they see one. ---
**Author:** ![NoCoolUserName](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5fc32e/32.png) [@NoCoolUserName](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoCoolUserName)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dads-and-daughters-your-opinions-of-mulan-disney-please/319062/50 "2005-09-06T04:01:26Z")
Thank you **dotchan** , I had been planning to post from memory. You did it better. In the original, Mulan is never discovered. She becomes a great leader of the troops. When the emperor asks “what do you want?” she really does say “Just to go home.” Better than Disney, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dads-and-daughters-your-opinions-of-mulan-disney-please/319062/51 "2005-09-06T06:28:26Z")
> [@NoCoolUserName](#): > > Ariel falls for the air-breather and evenutally they work things out I detested Little Mermaid because Ariel (hey, it’s a GUY name, 'kay?) is willing to mutilate herself to Land a Man. A TERRIBLE example for my three daughters, thank you very much! ---
**Author:** ![Tracy\_Lord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@Tracy\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tracy_Lord)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dads-and-daughters-your-opinions-of-mulan-disney-please/319062/52 "2005-09-06T06:31:53Z")
Yeah, but Ariel had been wanting to have legs and be on land for a _looooooong_ time before she met Eric. Look at all that stuff she has stored away in her cave! She sings “Part of Your World” before she even sees the guy – it’s clear she’s been jonesing to ditch the tail for quite some time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dads-and-daughters-your-opinions-of-mulan-disney-please/319062.md?page=2)