# Daily Show 8/25 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 26, 2005, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daily-show-8-25/318700 "2005-08-26T05:30:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![deevee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@deevee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deevee)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daily-show-8-25/318700/1 "2005-08-26T05:30:22Z")
I love Hitchens but he didn’t come off too well. His right hand also seemed to have a pretty good grip on his left. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daily-show-8-25/318700/2 "2005-08-26T05:58:41Z")
I liked Hitchens better before he turned into a drunken war booster and Bush apologist. I loved Stewart’s response when Hitchens tried to corner him for mocking Bush’s “resolute” anti-terrorism postiring in his press conferences. JS really seemed pissed at that moment and he shut Hitchens up. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daily-show-8-25/318700/3 "2005-08-26T06:20:14Z")
Yeah JS did seem to get pretty worked up there for a minute. I thought to myself, “Man, that Stewart fellow is mighty-smart. That’s hot\*.” \*What? I’m a 19 year old girl who loves politics! ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daily-show-8-25/318700/4 "2005-08-26T06:22:42Z")
This was one of those rare _TDS_s where the interview portion was much better than the “fun” part. (That “17-year-old kid’s effort at political satire in a first attempt at using FruityLoops and Premiere” bit was particularly dire.) I felt genuinely sorry for Hitchens, though. The poor sap. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daily-show-8-25/318700/5 "2005-08-26T14:02:15Z")
I like the shows with reasonable, intelligent, well-spoken guests who have different viewpoints, and I was looking forward to this one. I wish the interview could have been longer, and I wish Jon hadn’t interrupted Hitchens so much. I **know** how Stewart feels about Iraq, and I agree with him, but darn it, the guy had some interesting points to make and he didn’t get to flesh them out. He was obviously upset, not hanging around for the close-up off-camera chat. What was it he said when he left? “It’s been real.” He was insulted when Jon asked the audience to applaud him, and I don’t blame him. This was the first time I’d heard about the four reasons to justify a nation losing its sovereignty. Am I just ill-informed? Did you guys know about that? Why hasn’t Bush used it in his arguments for going to Iraq? ---
**Author:** ![Wolfian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7ea924/32.png) [@Wolfian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolfian)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daily-show-8-25/318700/6 "2005-08-26T14:09:31Z")
Its’ been said before and I’ll say it again: the fact that some of the best, most informative debates happen on _Comedy Central_ as opposed to one of the bg three networks or a news channel is effed up. Both Stewart and Hitchens were making some darn good points. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daily-show-8-25/318700/7 "2005-08-26T15:07:48Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > I like the shows with reasonable, intelligent, well-spoken guests who have different viewpoints, and I was looking forward to this one. I wish the interview could have been longer, and I wish Jon hadn’t interrupted Hitchens so much. > > I **know** how Stewart feels about Iraq, and I agree with him, but darn it, the guy had some interesting points to make and he didn’t get to flesh them out. > > He was obviously upset, not hanging around for the close-up off-camera chat. What was it he said when he left? “It’s been real.” He was insulted when Jon asked the audience to applaud him, and I don’t blame him. > > This was the first time I’d heard about the four reasons to justify a nation losing its sovereignty. Am I just ill-informed? Did you guys know about that? Why hasn’t Bush used it in his arguments for going to Iraq? Usually I either don’t watch the interview or I only halfway listen to it, but I’m glad I left the TV on the Daily Show for last night. I also wish that the interview had been longer and that Hitchens had been allowed to talk more. I had never heard the four reasons to justify a nation losing its sovereignty, and I think that I am reasonably well informed. I would really like to read Hitchen’s book now, even though the semester is about to start and I’ll have very little time for leisure reading. Has anyone read it yet? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daily-show-8-25/318700/8 "2005-08-26T15:10:38Z")
What points did Hitchens make? All I heard was the same mindless war-mongering as I hear from every other Bush ball washer. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daily-show-8-25/318700/9 "2005-08-26T15:15:04Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > This was the first time I’d heard about the four reasons to justify a nation losing its sovereignty. Am I just ill-informed? Did you guys know about that? Why hasn’t Bush used it in his arguments for going to Iraq? Because none of them are actual legal justifications for an attack on sovereignty. Hitchens was talkng out of his ass. There is exactly one legal justification for an attack on the sovereignty of another country- self-defense. That’s it. everything else Hitchens said was only so much hot air. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daily-show-8-25/318700/10 "2005-08-26T15:19:50Z")
Dio, that’s just it. He started to make some points but wasn’t given time to justify or explain them. Do you know what he was talking about with the four justifications? Was it a resolution passed by Congress or something? Or something the UN did? ---
**Author:** ![MMI](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/53a042/32.png) [@MMI](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MMI)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daily-show-8-25/318700/11 "2005-08-26T15:30:20Z")
I think that one of his points was essentially that the US being a signatory to the UN Convention on Genocide obliges the US (and the other signatories) to take necessary measures to prevent genocide (and punish the perpetrators). The most noticeable effect of this treaty historically is the bending over backwards to avoid using the word “genocide” when describing Rwanda, Darfur, etc so as to avoid forcing us to make a decision w.r.t. shitting or getting off the pot. Whether Saddam’s actions through the mid nineties required us to prioritize Iraq over other, ongoing humanitarian catastrophes (in Sudan, for example) is debatable. I am not sure where the NNPT thing comes from - I don’t believe it explicitly calls for a can of whoopass on lapsed signatories. No doubt because such a term would have discouraged participation. The Zarqawi thing is just Hitchens being disingenuous. And I thought that Iraq’s attacks on its neighbors had been taken care of by Iran and the first gulf war coalition, respectively. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daily-show-8-25/318700/12 "2005-08-26T15:43:34Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > Dio, that’s just it. He started to make some points but wasn’t given time to justify or explain them. > > Do you know what he was talking about with the four justifications? Was it a resolution passed by Congress or something? Or something the UN did? No, nothing to do with the UN or Congress. The invasion was staged in direct defiance of the UN and the US Congress does not have any international authority for regime change (any more than Iraq could cite its own authority in invading Kuwait). [Here is an excerpt](http://www.uncommonknowledge.org/900/933.html) from another interview where Hitchens blathers on about his “four reasons.” > [@](#): > > \*\*Christopher Hitchens:\*\*Because he had done the four things that mean that a country can lose its sovereignty and be invaded–invade other countries, Persia, Iran, Kuwait–commit genocide. In this case in Kurdistan. Fool around with weapons of mass destruction which he used on his own soil. I will not say on his own people because they were not his own people but it’s all the same. His own soil and in Iran and harbor international terrorists. Now he’d done all of these four things and was addicted to all four activities as a matter of fact. Amazing, really extraordinary. He was not as Ms. Pollitt said that we picked a fight with him but that we allowed this to go on for so long. To summarize, Hitchens four reasons are: 1. Iraq has attacked other countries in decades past. Irrelevant as an argument for self-defense by the US. 2. Saddam allegedly gassed some Kurds, and Hitchens is trying to stretch that into “genocide.” 3. WMDs (again, in decades past, not present). 4. “Harboring terrorists.” Not a justification for regime change, even if true, and not an argument for self-defense since Iraq was not harboring anyone who had attacked the US. In other words, Hitchens is parroting the exact same talking points as the White House. He was presenting nothing new or startling and his “four reasons” _were_ the reasons cited by Bush. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daily-show-8-25/318700/13 "2005-08-26T15:50:47Z")
I might need to watch the show when it’s repeated. So the four reasons are Hitchens’ reasons? Not something that was voted or agreed on by Congress (or some body) way back in 1998? ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daily-show-8-25/318700/14 "2005-08-26T15:52:40Z")
BTW, before a Mod shows up like two weeks ago in a TDS thread, we’re just talking about what happened on the show and what Hitchens said – we’re not debating the war. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daily-show-8-25/318700/15 "2005-08-26T16:11:10Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > 1. Saddam allegedly gassed some Kurds, and Hitchens is trying to stretch that into “genocide.” I rarely find myself disagreeing with you **Diogenes** , but why isn’t Saddam’s behaviour toward the Kurds an act of genocide? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daily-show-8-25/318700/16 "2005-08-26T16:11:14Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > I might need to watch the show when it’s repeated. So the four reasons are Hitchens’ reasons? Not something that was voted or agreed on by Congress (or some body) way back in 1998? Nothing by Congress or the UN. Just Hitchens blowing gas. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daily-show-8-25/318700/17 "2005-08-26T16:23:01Z")
> [@Kolak of Twilo](#): > > I rarely find myself disagreeing with you **Diogenes** , but why isn’t Saddam’s behaviour toward the Kurds an act of genocide? 😕 It was an act of mass murder but it wasn’t a systematic attempt to eradicate the Kurds. It also happened 17 years ago. It was not an ongoing campaign which required intervention to stop. The UN Convention on Genocide does not authorize anyone to launch autonomous attack on sovereignty anyway. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daily-show-8-25/318700/18 "2005-08-26T16:47:18Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > He was obviously upset, not hanging around for the close-up off-camera chat. What was it he said when he left? “It’s been real.” He was insulted when Jon asked the audience to applaud him, and I don’t blame him. I wish the audience would shut the hell up and let the guest talk. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daily-show-8-25/318700/19 "2005-08-26T16:54:34Z")
Stewart often tries to ask the crowd to refrain from applauding him. He knows it gives him an artificial advantage which he doesn’t need and doesn’t want, but it’s a comedy show…what are you going to do? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daily-show-8-25/318700/20 "2005-08-26T16:59:01Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I liked Hitchens better before he turned into a drunken war booster and Bush apologist. Well, to be fair, i believe he has always been a drunk. 🙂 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daily-show-8-25/318700.md?page=2)