# Dalai Lama Says "Violence May Be Necessary" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 24, 2003, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dalai-lama-says-violence-may-be-necessary/203480 "2003-09-24T04:43:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dalai-lama-says-violence-may-be-necessary/203480/1 "2003-09-24T04:43:20Z")
At one of his stops on his current US tour (funny I haven’t heard anything about it before now), the Dalai Lama said > [@](#): > > But during his current 20-day visit to the USA, where he is drawing enthusiastic crowd, the Dalai Lama said that sometimes violence may become necessary to help “protect the rest of the civilisation, democracy,” as it happened in some wars, for example, World War II and the Korean War. Even the war against the Taliban in Afghanistan might be justified as “some kind of liberation.” [Cite.](http://www.thestatesman.net/page.news.php?clid=4&theme=&usrsess=1&id=23643) I’ve got a great deal of respect for the Dalai Lama and I’m **very** surprised to hear him say this. Not that I disagree with him in this instance, it’s just not something that I’d expect him to say. So what do other Dopers think about this? ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dalai-lama-says-violence-may-be-necessary/203480/2 "2003-09-24T06:54:13Z")
I think on one of his previous tours, he made a statement to the effect of “It is alright to use violence to defend yourself if need be”. I don’t remember if lethal or non-lethal was specified. I’ll see if I can scare up a qoute. ---
**Author:** ![ccwaterback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@ccwaterback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ccwaterback)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dalai-lama-says-violence-may-be-necessary/203480/3 "2003-09-24T07:13:00Z")
I saw Mr. Lama a couple years ago at U of Indiana. If I remember correctly, back then he said, try to make friends of your enemies, try to negotiate, try to see their point of view, but if they point a gun at you, run like hell, don’t be an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![ccwaterback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@ccwaterback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ccwaterback)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dalai-lama-says-violence-may-be-necessary/203480/4 "2003-09-24T07:34:44Z")
Let me add, if you ever get the chance to see Mr. Lama, DO IT, by all means. This is one incredible human being. When he left the arena grinning like a little kid, enthusiastically waving to the people in the cheap seats like some kind of baseball star, I couldn’t help but shed a tear of joy for this wonderful man. ---
**Author:** ![ccwaterback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@ccwaterback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ccwaterback)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dalai-lama-says-violence-may-be-necessary/203480/5 "2003-09-24T07:42:21Z")
I wrote this soon after I saw The Dalai Lama: The Dalai Lama. The security at Assembly Hall was the highest I have ever seen. They didn’t even allow women to bring their purses in. I asked one of the ushers what the capacity of the stadium was, she said it was around 17,000. They had set up the stage so that one side of the stadium seating wasn’t used. So I estimate there were about 10,000 in attendance. The lady and her daughter on my right drove for three hours to get there, the two gals on my left were students. I got there about an hour before the scheduled beginning. There was a musician on stage playing a guitar-like instrument and singing Tibetan folk songs. The stadium continued to fill. I guess I was somewhat surprised to see every seat in the house was eventually filled, with people standing in the isles. The secret service security kept an eye on the crowd. After the musician had finished his performance, it was time for the main event. First some university dignitaries entered and sat on stage. The dozens of press people had already set up their cameras and microphones directly in front of the stage. A few of the Dalai Lama’s entourage had seats directly next to the stage on the left. I could see him entering through the doorway behind and to the left of the stage, accompanied by more secret service agents. He walked in with his bouncy duck-walk, smiling, waving and bowing to the crowd. He was met with an enthusiastic standing ovation. As he made his way to center-stage, he made a funny little taunt to the crowd, like come on let me hear ya 🙂 Always smiling. He took his seat next to the handful of university dignitaries, the crowd sat down, and the university president began his introductory speech. Apparently, the Dalai Lama’s brother is a professor at Indiana University, and he has established a Tibetan study institution there. The president introduced the Dalai Lama, and again, a standing ovation. He started by explaining to the audience who he was. He said I am not a healer, some people think I am a faith heeler, I am a Buddhist monk, that’s all. He related how his life was not a normal life, how he was chosen at a very young age to be the Dalai Lama. He told us how the Chinese had invaded his country and that he now lives in exile in northern India. He said the topics of his speech tonight would be, what is the nature of man, what is the purpose of life and how can we attain that purpose. First, the nature of man. In a philosophical way, he talked about other animals, how some were aggressive by nature, and how some were docile. Just look at the difference between a lion and a rabbit. He said because of our teeth and our claws we are much more like the rabbit, and so we are not aggressive in nature, man is more of a docile animal. He then asked, what is the purpose of life? And he answered, that purpose of life is simply to be happy. He talked about how some people have the wrong idea of happiness, they think more money and more possessions will make them happy, but having more money and more possessions only makes you want to have more, so you will always be unhappy with that way of living. The way to attain happiness is through compassion, through giving and caring for your fellow human beings. Of course there was much more said, but I can’t really remember it all. Most of what he said would be what you would expect, to be kind to other people, to be understanding of your differences, to compromise with your enemies, but if they start shooting … run like hell, don’t be an idiot!!! Then he looked at his watch and said, that’s all I have to say. Another standing ovation, he walked around the stage and bowed to the crowd in the way he does, with his hands in a praying position above his head. He stopped at the corner of the stage and summoned the two gals that were signing the speech for the deaf, he had them come on stage and he bowed to them as they kneeled and bowed their heads. He then continued to bow to the crowd as he made his way off the stage. Then he stopped, looked way up into the seats at the top of the auditorium, he shaded his eyes from the lights, and then gave a childish wave and smile to those people. The standing ovation continued until he was out of sight. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dalai-lama-says-violence-may-be-necessary/203480/6 "2003-09-24T19:52:21Z")
From a recent NY Times Article, [Dalai Lama Lite" by Patrick French](http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/19/opinion/19FREN.html) > [@](#): > > The Dalai Lama has become whoever we want him to be, a cuddly projection of our hopes and dreams. … He has been seen on advertisements for Apple computers and [SalesForce.com](http://SalesForce.com) software; significantly, he was not paid for either of these uses of his image. Some of the books that purport to be written by the Dalai Lama are scarcely by him at all, but have his face on the cover to increase sales. > > In reality, Tibetan Buddhism is not a values-free system oriented around smiles and a warm heart. It is a religion with tough ethical underpinnings that sometimes get lost in translation. For example, the Dalai Lama explicitly condemns homosexuality, as well as all oral and anal sex. His stand is close to that of Pope John Paul II, something his Western followers find embarrassing and prefer to ignore. I wonder what the exact reason was that the feel-good image promoted? This puts Richard Gere’s remarks after 9/11 in a different light. ---
**Author:** ![Gadfly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/aeb1de/32.png) [@Gadfly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadfly)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dalai-lama-says-violence-may-be-necessary/203480/7 "2003-09-24T20:15:15Z")
Well, rowrrbazzle, here’s the thing, and I’m assuming that the article you cited is correct: No human being has ever been, or ever will be, perfect. Some of the most brilliant people on earth are bastards. Lots of people who have done incredible things and have made an incredibly positive impact have big dark sides. Martin Luther King Jr, for example. I bet Gandhi had some pretty visible flaws, too. For some reason, though, we like to almost worship some humans as perfect. With that said, from what I’ve read, (A Buddhist friend showed me some material on this topic when homosexuality was brought up) anal, manual, and oral sex, whatever gender the participants are, is considered “misconduct” **for Buddhists.** Not all sects have that view, as I gather, but it’s the general view. However. The Pope pretty much condemns homosexuality, period. The Dalai Lama, as well as being quoted saying that gay sex (not homosexuality period, mind you) is Buddhist “misconduct”, has (if my memory is in order) said something to the effect of: Non-celibate gay relationships are harmless. Just not Buddhist. I’m not sure if I have all my facts straight, though, and I’m too tired to go cite-hunting, so don’t treat the preceding as infalliable. ---
**Author:** ![ccwaterback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@ccwaterback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ccwaterback)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dalai-lama-says-violence-may-be-necessary/203480/8 "2003-09-24T20:56:46Z")
Oh my yes, Mr. Lama is FAR from infallible. I even heard him utter “fuck it” during his speech. He seems like a kind man, with very high moral standards. But I think he would agree, he retains the right to change his mind. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dalai-lama-says-violence-may-be-necessary/203480/9 "2003-09-25T01:30:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ccwaterback \* > \*\*Oh my yes, Mr. Lama is FAR from infallible. I even heard him utter “fuck it” during his speech. He seems like a kind man, with very high moral standards. But I think he would agree, he retains the right to change his mind. \*\* Despite whatever failings he might have, I don’t think that anyone can deny that as far as religious leaders go, he’s definately one of the _good_ guys. Unlike some other prominant ones I could mention who call for the deaths of those they disagree with. He hasn’t called for an armed uprising of the Tibetians against the Chinese, and he doesn’t milk them in order to have fabulous mansions all over the planet. ---
**Author:** ![ccwaterback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@ccwaterback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ccwaterback)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dalai-lama-says-violence-may-be-necessary/203480/10 "2003-09-25T06:38:42Z")
Here’s a nice Dalai Lama website: > **[His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama | The 14th Dalai Lama](https://www.dalailama.com/)** > > Welcome to the official website of the Office of His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama. His Holiness is the spiritual leader of the Tibetan people. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dalai-lama-says-violence-may-be-necessary/203480/11 "2003-09-25T07:37:49Z")
I dunno…I’m still waiting to hear him say “nuke the bastards.” Just once. Then I can die happy. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![umop\_ap\_sdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/dbc845/32.png) [@umop\_ap\_sdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/umop_ap_sdn)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dalai-lama-says-violence-may-be-necessary/203480/12 "2003-09-25T09:52:06Z")
I’ve always been anti-war but what does it say about me if I’m more peaceful than the Dalai Lama!? ---
**Author:** ![dakravel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85e7bf/32.png) [@dakravel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dakravel)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dalai-lama-says-violence-may-be-necessary/203480/13 "2003-09-25T14:10:47Z")
Then, you’re not the man to ask for a walk home at night for protection from the dangerous neighborhood. “Oh no Mr. Thug sir, go ahead and have your way with her, I can’t do anything about it anyway.” ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dalai-lama-says-violence-may-be-necessary/203480/14 "2003-09-26T02:13:23Z")
The author of the New York Times article cited above, Richard French, has also written [Tibet, Tibet: Dreams and Memories of a Lost Land](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1400041007/qid=1064542445/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/104-3150461-8305569) . I was curious about his comments in the Times, since they were somewhat negative. I asked a friend who studies Tibetan Buddhism, but she had not read French’s book. Does anyone else know anything more about this author? Or have you read the book? The things French says seem different from other things I have read by (and about) the Dalai Lama. In response to the OP, I also read some time ago a quote from another Buddhist scholar who opined that sometimes killing a person who is about to bring monstrous karma down upon himself was an act of compassion. It was interesting that there was so little t.v. coverage of his appearances in New York. Had the Pope been arriving, we would have been hearing about it for days, but there was barely a mention, at least as far as I was aware. ---
**Author:** ![Sattua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sattua/32/11906_2.png) [@Sattua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sattua)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dalai-lama-says-violence-may-be-necessary/203480/15 "2003-09-26T03:36:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by aryk29 \* > \*\*I’ve always been anti-war but what does it say about me if I’m more peaceful than the Dalai Lama!? \*\* In all non-flippant honesty? That you’re a coward. ---
**Author:** ![ccwaterback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@ccwaterback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ccwaterback)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dalai-lama-says-violence-may-be-necessary/203480/16 "2003-09-26T03:41:00Z")
At this website the Dalai Lama talks about contacting the US to help defend Tibet against China. So, although they are pacifists it seems they are not without the will to defend their homeland. Too bad Tibet doesn’t have tons of oil wells eh? Or maybe we just weren’t ready for Vietnam II. > **[His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama | The 14th Dalai Lama](https://www.dalailama.com/)** > > Welcome to the official website of the Office of His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama. His Holiness is the spiritual leader of the Tibetan people. ---
**Author:** ![ccwaterback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@ccwaterback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ccwaterback)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dalai-lama-says-violence-may-be-necessary/203480/17 "2003-09-26T03:47:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sattua \* > \*\*In all non-flippant honesty? That you’re a coward. \*\* I’m all for war. If some stinking nation disagrees with our policies, or won’t allow us to use their people for slave labor to sew tennis shoes, then yeah, let’s kill them all. ::sheesh::