# dalej42 - Your chance to back up your assertions about MLK Jr **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 23, 2008, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dalej42-your-chance-to-back-up-your-assertions-about-mlk-jr/434593 "2008-01-23T00:03:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dalej42-your-chance-to-back-up-your-assertions-about-mlk-jr/434593/1 "2008-01-23T00:03:24Z")
In this [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=452371&page=1&pp=50) dalej42 made several assertions about MLK Jr., somewhat tastelessly timed for the day set aside to honor King. One of the assertions was that: > [@](#): > > King was a womanizer who was with prostitutes the night before he was shot. I asked you for a reputable cite for this assertion. None has been forthcoming. A cursory google-fu will turn about vague mentions of “FBI reports” or even a quote from David Duke (of Grand Wizard fame). But I am waiting for you to bring the goods. I will admit that King was far from perfect. I will admit he liked the ladies, and his disloyalty to his wife is troubling. But I believe people who want to discredit him have “married” his infidelities (no pun intended) to his death to forever corrupt his death and legacy. You are perpetuating this myth. Did you also forward the e-mail about “Barack Hussein Obama” being a muslim? No one gets a free pass here. Everyone from Jesus to Hillary to MLK Jr to Barry Bonds is open to scrutiny. HONEST scrutiny. There are plenty pf valid arguments for and against King having a federeal holiday. Instead of presenting one, why did you choose to level scurilous accusations against his character? ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dalej42-your-chance-to-back-up-your-assertions-about-mlk-jr/434593/2 "2008-01-23T00:05:34Z")
[QUOTE=newcrasher] In this [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=452371&page=1&pp=50) dalej42 made several assertions about MLK Jr., somewhat tastelessly timed for the day set aside to honor King. One of the assertions was that: I asked you for a reputable cite for this assertion. None has been forthcoming. A cursory google-fu will turn about vague mentions of “FBI reports” or even a quote from David Duke (of Grand Wizard fame). But I am waiting for you to bring the goods. I will admit that King was far from perfect. I will admit he liked the ladies, and his disloyalty to his wife is troubling. But I believe people who want to discredit him have “married” his infidelities (no pun intended) to his death to forever corrupt his death and legacy. You are perpetuating this myth. Did you also forward the e-mail about “Barack Hussein Obama” being a muslim? No one gets a free pass here. Everyone from Jesus to Hillary to MLK Jr to Barry Bonds is open to scrutiny. HONEST scrutiny. There are plenty pf valid arguments for and against King having a federeal holiday. Instead of presenting one, why did you choose to level scurilous accusations against his character? [/QUOTE] Didn’t someone in that thread cite Ralph David Abernathy’s autobiography? ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dalej42-your-chance-to-back-up-your-assertions-about-mlk-jr/434593/3 "2008-01-23T00:12:24Z")
The number of easy women one has fucked ought to be directly proportional to the likelihood of getting a national holiday established in one’s memory. Like someone in that other thread, Bill Clinton cast a wide, green, sticky, Cyrax’s-special-move-like net with his penis, and some are compelled to pass judgment on him for that. I think in times like this, we should remember the great king David from the Bible. He was a true hero, and yet what did he do in his spare time? Why, womanize, of course. Charlemagne? Four different wives and five concubines! This is GOOD, folks, not bad. It means the genes of great men will be passed on to more people. Ultimately it’s good for the human race. Bonus points if the women are of different races - diversity, you know. Whether King was actually with prostitutes before he was shot is not irrelevant at all. Because if it were true, it would make him even more awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dalej42-your-chance-to-back-up-your-assertions-about-mlk-jr/434593/4 "2008-01-23T00:13:59Z")
Is [Cecil Adams](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/030502.html) a reputable enough source for you? > [@](#): > > The most sordid charges about MLK’s sex life, this one included, come from the FBI and can’t necessarily be trusted. But there’s no doubt about what one biographer calls King’s “compulsive sexual athleticism.” King’s attitude toward women was chauvinist and often exploitative. In his 1989 autobiography, And the Walls Came Tumbling Down, King’s close friend and fellow civil rights leader Ralph Abernathy writes that on the night before he died, King gave a rousing speech, had dinner with a woman afterward and remained with her till 1 AM, then came back to his motel to spend the night with a second woman. In the early morning hours a third woman came looking for King and became angry when she found the bed in the room he shared with Abernathy unoccupied. When King reappeared, he argued with woman #3 and wound up knocking her across the bed. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dalej42-your-chance-to-back-up-your-assertions-about-mlk-jr/434593/5 "2008-01-23T00:17:10Z")
[QUOTE=Argent Towers] The number of easy women one has fucked ought to be directly proportional to the likelihood of getting a national holiday established in one’s memory. Like someone in that other thread, Bill Clinton cast a wide, green, sticky, Cyrax’s-special-move-like net with his penis, and some are compelled to pass judgment on him for that. I think in times like this, we should remember the great king David from the Bible. He was a true hero, and yet what did he do in his spare time? Why, womanize, of course. Charlemagne? Four different wives and five concubines! This is GOOD, folks, not bad. It means the genes of great men will be passed on to more people. Ultimately it’s good for the human race. Bonus points if the women are of different races - diversity, you know. Whether King was actually with prostitutes before he was shot is not irrelevant at all. Because if it were true, it would make him even more awesome. [/QUOTE] What about Solomon? 300 wives, 700 concubines. Charlemagne could only wish for numbers like that. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dalej42-your-chance-to-back-up-your-assertions-about-mlk-jr/434593/6 "2008-01-23T00:25:05Z")
[QUOTE=Antinor01] What about Solomon? 300 wives, 700 concubines. Charlemagne could only wish for numbers like that. [/QUOTE] The concubines I can get behind (in a manner of speaking). The wives, not so much… ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dalej42-your-chance-to-back-up-your-assertions-about-mlk-jr/434593/7 "2008-01-23T00:34:39Z")
[QUOTE=Antinor01] What about Solomon? 300 wives, 700 concubines. Charlemagne could only wish for numbers like that. [/QUOTE] > [@Mark Twain](#): > > Solomon, who was one of the Deity’s favorites, had a copulation cabinet composed of seven hundred wives and three hundred concubines. To save his life he could not have kept two of these young creatures satisfactorily refreshed, even if he had fifteen experts to help him. Necessarily almost the entire thousand had to go hungry for years and years on a stretch. Conceive of a man hardhearted enough to look daily upon all that suffering and not be moved to mitigate it. > > - Letters from the Earth Turns out quotes don’t count toward minimum post length. Go fig. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dalej42-your-chance-to-back-up-your-assertions-about-mlk-jr/434593/8 "2008-01-23T00:48:57Z")
Another assertion in that thread is that King plagiarized part of his doctoral dissertation. This [Snopes](http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/mlking.asp) article supports that idea and vaguely confirms that King had extramarital affairs, though not quite as many or as wild as the OP in the other thread claimed. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dalej42-your-chance-to-back-up-your-assertions-about-mlk-jr/434593/9 "2008-01-23T00:51:01Z")
Bah, did I get it backwards? At least I had the numbers right. ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dalej42-your-chance-to-back-up-your-assertions-about-mlk-jr/434593/10 "2008-01-23T01:18:53Z")
I read Abernathy’s book and I rememer it saying he had a weakness for the ladies, but I don’t remember it saying he was with a prostitute the night before he died. Even is Cecil’s quote it says the claim if froim an FBI with reason to discredit him. ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dalej42-your-chance-to-back-up-your-assertions-about-mlk-jr/434593/11 "2008-01-23T01:37:46Z")
[QUOTE=newcrasher] I read Abernathy’s book and I rememer it saying he had a weakness for the ladies, but I don’t remember it saying he was with a prostitute the night before he died. Even is Cecil’s quote it says the claim if froim an FBI with reason to discredit him. [/QUOTE] The Cecil quote about him being him with ladies the night before he died, and hitting one, came from RA, not an FBI agent- what came from the FBI is the notion that he spent donations on hookers. Just out of curiosity, you’re ok with him cheating onhis wife and hitting a woman the night before he died, as long as they weren’t prostitutes? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dalej42-your-chance-to-back-up-your-assertions-about-mlk-jr/434593/12 "2008-01-23T05:49:47Z")
I don’t have Abernathy’s book here with me, but i do have Marshall Frady’s 2002 biography, _Martin Luther King, Jr.: A Life_. Frady’s account of King’s last night relies almost exclusively on Abernathy’s work. Here’s how it looks in Frady’s book, on page 203: > [@](#): > > The two of them then set out with another King aide, Abernathy was to report only years later, for a late dinner in the home of a woman with whom King had kept company before, and from that point on, according to Abernathy, King flung himself into a final, all-night release into carnal carousal. Around one in the morning, he emerged from a bedroom with the woman, and he and Abernathy returned to the Lorraine [Motel], where they found another of King’s consorts waiting for them. King disappeared with her until after dawn, and when he returned to the room he and Abernathy were sharing, they saw, by Abernathy’s account, yet a third of King’s inamoratas leaving the motel, miffed by his other assignation there. King pleaded with Abernathy to bring her back, but after an angry scuffle in the room, she rushed out again, with King crying after her, “Don’t go! Don’t go!” As far as i know, no-one has ever shown these women to have been prostitutes. In fact, i don’t think i’ve ever heard that possibility even raised. As for whether them being prostitutes would have made King’s infidelity worse, i leave that up to you. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dalej42-your-chance-to-back-up-your-assertions-about-mlk-jr/434593/13 "2008-01-23T07:59:47Z")
[QUOTE=mhendo] I don’t have Abernathy’s book here with me, but i do have Marshall Frady’s 2002 biography, _Martin Luther King, Jr.: A Life_. Frady’s account of King’s last night relies almost exclusively on Abernathy’s work. Here’s how it looks in Frady’s book, on page 203:As far as i know, no-one has ever shown these women to have been prostitutes. In fact, i don’t think i’ve ever heard that possibility even raised. As for whether them being prostitutes would have made King’s infidelity worse, i leave that up to you. [/QUOTE] They could probably be safely called “groupies”. And yeah, it’s not too fucking impressive in any case. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dalej42-your-chance-to-back-up-your-assertions-about-mlk-jr/434593/14 "2008-01-23T09:02:31Z")
You know, I’m finding it hard to reconcile my “I have a dream” image of MLK with the bow chicka wow wow soundtrack that mhendo’s quote is giving me. ---
**Author:** ![cowgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cowgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cowgirl)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dalej42-your-chance-to-back-up-your-assertions-about-mlk-jr/434593/15 "2008-01-23T17:00:36Z")
My response is, even if true, so what? For most of recorded history our societies have been run by misogynists, racists, homophobes, and bigots of every conceivable stripe. It would be nice to assume that someone who fights one kind of oppression would be sympathetic towards others. But not only have I have seen no indications that this is so, there are an uncountable number of examples to the contrary. In fact, I submit that it would be extremely difficult or impossible to examine the life of any significant person living in the 20th century (or earlier) and fail to find examples of sexism, racism or homophobia. Darwin said appalling things about “savages” with different colour skin; Gandhi wasn’t particularly nice to women; some early Presidents of the US raped slaves; lots of feminists are anti-trans; lots of gays don’t like bisexuals; today, right now, we can see the prevalent tension between mainstream anti-racist, anti-sexist and anti-homophobia groups. It’s everywhere. Oppression is incredibly complicated and omnipresent. Given this (that almost every historical figure has displayed some discriminatory behaviour in the past), I suspect the motives of anyone who singles out an individual historical character, especially one who happens to be a black guy talking about racism. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2008, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dalej42-your-chance-to-back-up-your-assertions-about-mlk-jr/434593/16 "2008-01-27T03:13:03Z")
What difference does it make? King was a man, not a saint. He had great flaws, but these do not in any way detract from his achievement. If anything they enhance it. He was a man who rose above his imperfect nature and put his life on the line to make this country a better place. IOW, what **cowgirl** said. ---
**Author:** ![straight\_man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straight_man/32/3027_2.png) [@straight\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straight_man)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dalej42-your-chance-to-back-up-your-assertions-about-mlk-jr/434593/17 "2008-01-28T05:13:07Z")
Or a third possibility: perhaps it’s the dream that matters, not the person who dreamt it. I mean, I know we Americans are big on our heroes, but I think it’s easy to be missing the point… ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dalej42-your-chance-to-back-up-your-assertions-about-mlk-jr/434593/18 "2008-01-28T11:33:14Z")
Honestly, who gives a shit? It seems apparent to me that Great Men are not Nice Guys, and often they’re not even Good Men. I’ll take me a Good Man when I’m looking for a husband, and a Great Man when I’m looking to change the world. Y’all can keep your Nice Guys. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dalej42-your-chance-to-back-up-your-assertions-about-mlk-jr/434593/19 "2008-01-28T11:45:32Z")
And don’t forget he was a plagiarist so maybe it was **someone else’s** dream he had…so that he could get chicks. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2015, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dalej42-your-chance-to-back-up-your-assertions-about-mlk-jr/434593/20 "2015-01-17T23:32:23Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > What about Solomon? 300 wives, 700 concubines. Charlemagne could only wish for numbers like that. Feh! Solomon only grandfathered all of the Jews. Charlemagne grandfathered Western Europe! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dalej42-your-chance-to-back-up-your-assertions-about-mlk-jr/434593.md?page=2)