# Daley Attacks Miegs Field **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 31, 2003, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daley-attacks-miegs-field/165512 "2003-03-31T19:21:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daley-attacks-miegs-field/165512/21 "2003-04-01T02:27:06Z")
1. Did the airport receive any federal funds? If so, there may be a _requirement_ to keep it open. 2. If the mayor deprived any of the pilots of those airdcraft of their livelihoods, and indeed since he deprived several people of their livelihoods, then wouldn’t he be guilty of violating their civil rights protections that guarantee “due process”? Any chance that the news 'copters might boycot covering any action in Chicago? It’d be a shame if the poor commuters couldn’t get their traffic reports. > [@](#): > > AOPA also reports that “even some members of the Illinois congressional delegation were caught unawares, particularly interesting since those members of Congress had been working with Mayor Daley on legislation that would preserve Meigs and expand O’Hare International Airport.” Too bad those MoCs didn’t find out about it as they were on short-final! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daley-attacks-miegs-field/165512/22 "2003-04-01T03:00:06Z")
> [@](#): > > Does anyone have the details of this “agreement” that he signed promising to keep Meigs open? From [AOPA testifies in support of Meigs Field](http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2002/02-1-115x.html): > [@](#): > > Mar. 6 — AOPA today offered its support for legislation that will keep Chicago’s Meigs Field open until 2026. In testimony before the House aviation subcommittee, AOPA strongly endorsed H.R. 3479, a bill that would expand aviation capacity in the Chicago area and writes into law the agreement between Chicago Mayor Richard Daley and Illinois Governor George Ryan to keep Meigs Field open. > > [snip] > > Governor George Ryan noted the important role Meigs Field plays in the area economy and praised the concession made by Mayor Daley to keep it open. Mayor Daley stated that the agreement would vastly improve the national aviation system and explicitly mentioned the “key support of such nationally recognized aviation groups…as the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association” in keeping Meigs open. > > [snip] > > In addition to the Meigs provision, the bill calls for expanding runways at O’Hare International Airport and the construction of a third Chicago-land airport near Peotone, Illinois. > > [snip] From the [AOPA homepage](http://www.aopa.org/): > [@](#): > > Several members’ e-mails likened Daley’s overnight actions to those of a terrorist or a dictator. “I am starting to feel that I too live in Iraq with dictators changing the rules in the middle of the night,” wrote one member. Another pilot, responding all the way from the United Kingdom, said, “Is he employed by the citizens of [Chicago] or by Saddam Hussein? This sort of action just does the terrorist’s work for him.” > > Others raised safety concerns. “What is especially bad for pilots is the lack of contact with the controlling agencies,” said one member. Another, commenting on the tentative plan to use the taxiway to get the 16 stranded aircraft out of the airport, said, “I wouldn’t. Its not safe at all.” > > [snip] > > _To express your sentiments regarding the closure and destruction of Meigs Field, contact Chicago Mayor Richard M. Daley at [mayordaley@cityofchicago.org](mailto:mayordaley@cityofchicago.org) or Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich at [governor@state.il.us](mailto:governor@state.il.us)._ Also: > [@](#): > > "While federal and state airport laws may not have been broken by this action, [in December 2001](http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2001/01-4-202.html) he pledged to keep the airport open, in support of federal legislation that granted him expansion of O’Hare airport. The mayor has broken his promise not only to the citizens of his own city, but also to the pilots of America. > > “We will once again explore the legality of this action, but past research indicates that the law hasn’t been broken,” Boyer continued. “However, we’re not going to allow the mayor to hide behind the fiction of ‘homeland security’ for his reprehensible action.” From the link in the above quote: > [@](#): > > Senator Dick Durbin and Representative William Lipinski of Illinois, along with Senators Tom Harkin and Chuck Grassley of Iowa, told a Capitol Hill press conference December 7 that they would offer an amendment to the Defense Appropriations bill (H.R. 3338) that would make sure that future Illinois governors and Chicago mayors continue to honor the agreement to maintain Meigs Field. So basically, Daley came like a thief in the night and stole the airport. He has, I think, stolen federal funds by getting the expansion of O’Hare, since I’ll bet there were federal funds involved in that. If he accepted and used federal funds, then he is guilty of fraud. (AOPA indicates that what he did may not have been illegal, but that they are looking into it.) ---
**Author:** ![Berkut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a88e57/32.png) [@Berkut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Berkut)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daley-attacks-miegs-field/165512/23 "2003-04-01T04:12:21Z")
Does anyone know his rationale behind carving up the runway, instead of merely paining Xs on it like every other airport in the country does? Or am I correct in assuming he just wanted to be a dick? I mean, if someone still wanted to use the airport in a threating manner (BUAHAHAHAHAHAH), they could still use the taxiway. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daley-attacks-miegs-field/165512/24 "2003-04-01T04:35:41Z")
[GD thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=174002) on this same topic. But more info here, and thanks to everyone. This stunt goes into the books next to the Baltimore Colts and the midnight moving vans. ---
**Author:** ![RexDart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@RexDart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RexDart)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daley-attacks-miegs-field/165512/25 "2003-04-01T04:48:32Z")
Why the heck do you Chicagoans keep electing Daley’s?? You just elected this Daley to a fifth term, incomprehensible. What do you expect from this guy? He’s a remnant of machine politics, a relic from the mostly bygone era of playing white ethnic groups off each other for political gain, he has no integrity whatsoever. His whole family is more like the “family” from _Road to Perdition_ than it is like more respectable political families (and who knows, that movie was based on a real family, there might be a real connection back in history for all I know.) Depending on who you ask, this is a family that outright stole a Presidential election. These are not clean people. You just gotta suspect something dirty going on when a Daley’s behaviour is this odd. As someone who grew up in Rock Island and is familiar with the usual Illinois “Chicago First” politics, I hope this jerk gets what’s coming to him: a criminal indictment. ---
**Author:** ![lel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8797f3/32.png) [@lel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lel)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daley-attacks-miegs-field/165512/26 "2003-04-01T05:27:41Z")
Does anyone here know if this will have any effect on the proposed [South Suburban airport](http://www.southsuburbanairport.com/)? Is that airport still on track to be built, and could this speed up the timetable for that airport? I know it doesn’t help right now, but if that airport is ever constructed and operational, could it also relieve some of the air congestion around Chicago? ---
**Author:** ![Antonius\_Block](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/51bf81/32.png) [@Antonius\_Block](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antonius_Block)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daley-attacks-miegs-field/165512/27 "2003-04-01T06:12:51Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Broomstick \* > \*\*So why should those of you who don’t fly aircraft give a damn?_. \*\* IANA pilot, and partial disability means I probably never will be one. [I did once, for a few minutes, control a Cessna piloted by my then-girlfriend’s brother over Maine – this was a dual-control training model so no lives were at risk!] Yet, when I first visited Chicago in 1985, on my initial day – after the Art Institute but before the Sears Tower or the Museum of Science and Industry – I visited **Meigs Field**. Why was that? Because I, together with millions of others worldwide, had already been there before in the virtual world. Meigs was the Default Airport for **Microsoft Flight Simulator**. For all I know it still is. So, many years before September 11 2001, I had taken off from Meigs and looped over the Loop, trying to miss the downtown buildings but perhaps slip between the antennae on the Hancock Building. The FS developers always did a good job of keeping up with the latest improvements in terrain mapping and aircraft realism. Meigs was a perfect little world to learn in – you had lots of visual stimulation, it wasn’t trivial to land on (just one runway, and short at that), and you could always make a quick hop to O’Hare or Midway. The fact that the runway was 18/36 made navigation easy, too! All in all, it’s easy to see why the initial developers of the World’s Greatest Flight Simulator (mass-market, at least), who were I believe from Champaign-Urbana, chose Meigs Field. To make this post more pit-worthy, it does sound really fucking cowardly of Daley to do this in the middle of the night without notice, and using backhoes instead of white-line-painters. What if some poor sod had had engine trouble over Lake Michigan that night and tried to make an emergency landing? **RIP Meigs Field**. I learned to fly Cessnas, Learjets, and helicopters on you. I sometimes overshot you or bought the farm and augured in, but you forgave me. I don’t feel the same generosity to Mayor Daley. It seems all of our lives are destined to get a little sadder each day. Some things can’t be avoided, or at least not easily. This one could have been. **Broomstick** , I always enjoy reading your posts, and those of other Doper aviators ( **Johnny LA** comes to mind, and I know I’m forgetting others). I’m sorry for your loss, even if it wasn’t your home field. Perhaps you could hold a ChiDope in the middle of 18/36 at Meigs? ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daley-attacks-miegs-field/165512/28 "2003-04-01T06:23:10Z")
Hmmm. Doesn’t Illinois have a National Guard…? Yeah, yeah, I know – “No laws were broken.” Feh. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daley-attacks-miegs-field/165512/29 "2003-04-01T10:46:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joey G \* > Does anyone know his rationale behind carving up the runway, instead of merely paining Xs on it like every other airport in the country does? He did that _last time_ they closed Meigs and discovered it was altogether too easy to scrub the paint off the runway when he was forced to let it re-open. If the runway was merely painted the 16 stranded airplanes would still be able to leave from it. Now, if by some miracle the airport did re-open, who would dare to fly there and risk having their airplane stranded there? Last time Daley learned that X means closed. This time he made it stick. See, he just carved up the ruway enough to make it unusable, then he stopped. If he was so right, why not keep chewing up the runway when daylight came? Gotta get ready for that casino, right? Naw… the way he did it was meant to really stick it to general aviation. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by RexDart_ > Why the heck do you Chicagoans keep electing Daley’s?? Well, aside from corruption… since Daley’s been Mayor the lights are on (usually), the sewers work (when they aren’t flooding the subway), the garbage gets picked up, and, most important, when it snows the streets get plowed. When it comes to doing things that keep the city infrastructure running Daley is a competant Mayor. It’s when he dabbles in other stuff that he becomes a problem. Sometimes a big problem. And no, I didn’t vote for him - I live in Indiana, I’m not supposed to vote in Chicago. Not that I wasn’t encouraged to register and vote, of course… several times. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by lel_ > Does anyone here know if this will have any effect on the proposed South Suburban airport? Is that airport still on track to be built, and could this speed up the timetable for that airport? I know it doesn’t help right now, but if that airport is ever constructed and operational, could it also relieve some of the air congestion around Chicago? The answers to your questions are no, no, no, and no. The South Suburban Stillbirth was intended for passenger jets - the sort that use Midway and O’Hare. Those sorts of airplanes could never have landed at Meigs. The S3 has been in political limbo for a couple years now, and with the economy in the toilet will remain there. It is extremely unlikely such an airport will help the congestion around Chicago because 1) the _airlines_ are against it and have already said they won’t fly there and 2) it’s too damn far away from the big city, especially for anyone on the north side. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Antonius Block_ > What if some poor sod had had engine trouble over Lake Michigan that night and tried to make an emergency landing? He would have had a major problem. If he piled it in on top of a backhoe Daley would be sueing his estate now, and the FAA would be sueing Daley for… I don’t know… something. And maybe Daley could be brought up on homicide charges. Manslaughter. Something. But then he’d probably blame it on overenthusiastic underlings and trying to shift the blame. Or maybe the “poor sod” would have landed on Grant Park or Lake Shore Drive. And Daley would have a fit, of course, but pilots in an emergency do have rather broad authority to pick a landing spot and the Feds would side with the pilot in that case. But Daley would find some way to penalize the guy, and twist the facts to support his view of little planes as dangerous. I have to pass by Meigs going to and from work each day. This will not be easy. I can’t see it directly from the train, but I’ll know it’s there - or rather, it’s _not_ there. Looking at the ruins, I kept getting one of the nagging things where something reminds you of something else. Well, I’ve figured it out - this reminds me of _Krystallnacht_, the night Nazis smashed Jewish businesses. Look at the parrallels: - they came in the middle of the night - they smashed and destroyed - they felt justified and saw their victims as the enemy or potential enemy One big difference -\> what the Nazis did, at the time they did it, was still illegal, at least on paper. What Daley did… it appears by a series of technicalities the law is on his side. But just because it’s _legal_ it doesn’t make the act morally or ethically right. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daley-attacks-miegs-field/165512/30 "2003-04-01T11:53:31Z")
Wonder if you could get it declared a Historical Area… No, I’m serious. I’d forgotten about it being the Flight Sim default Airport… and I swear that that product has done more for general avation than anything else in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Spit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/76d3ee/32.png) [@Spit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spit)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daley-attacks-miegs-field/165512/31 "2003-04-01T13:12:24Z")
I’m with you **Antonius Block**. The first time I ever flew into O’hare IRL, I was leaning for the window so I could see Meigs field. Lord only knows the number of times I took off from there, headed to parts unknown. I had actually been following this little saga vetween the mayor and the airport for a while on this website: [http://friendsofmeigs.org/](http://friendsofmeigs.org/) Damn corrupt Daley’s. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daley-attacks-miegs-field/165512/32 "2003-04-01T13:59:09Z")
**Antonius Block** : [Being disabled doesn’t necessarily mean you can’t fly.](http://www.wheelchairaviators.org/) ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daley-attacks-miegs-field/165512/33 "2003-04-01T16:08:48Z")
I heard a rumor that Daley’s wife has wanted to make the airfield a park for the longest time. Any confirmation on this? ---
**Author:** ![bernse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@bernse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bernse)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daley-attacks-miegs-field/165512/34 "2003-04-01T16:37:07Z")
Is it possible that the fed’s could _force_ him to repair the runway and re-open it? ---
**Author:** ![Gundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Gundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gundy)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daley-attacks-miegs-field/165512/35 "2003-04-01T17:15:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ivylass \* > \*\*I heard a rumor that Daley’s wife has wanted to make the airfield a park for the longest time. > > Any confirmation on this? \*\* He appointed her to the head of the planning committee for converting it to a park. Maggie Daley is the “civilizing” influence 'round these parts. We have her to thank for planter medians and the ornate new streetlights popping up everywhere, if rumors are to be believed. For all the money dumped into beautification projects, they could leave the standard green streetlights and maybe give some dough to the struggling businesses in formerly thriving neighborhoods instead, or the schools, or for affordable, non-decrepit housing, or anything but fucking PLANTER MEDIANS! ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daley-attacks-miegs-field/165512/36 "2003-04-01T18:28:58Z")
But I liked those projects. . . . ---
**Author:** ![RexDart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@RexDart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RexDart)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daley-attacks-miegs-field/165512/37 "2003-04-01T19:57:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Broomstick \* > \*\*Well, aside from corruption… since Daley’s been Mayor the lights are on (usually), the sewers work (when they aren’t flooding the subway), the garbage gets picked up, and, most important, when it snows the streets get plowed. When it comes to doing things that keep the city infrastructure running Daley is a competant Mayor. It’s when he dabbles in other stuff that he becomes a problem. Sometimes a big problem. > > \*\* Well, I see the value in getting things done. But is that really enough for people? Heck, _mobsters_ got things done when they ran the city, getting things done for people was what fueled the initial growth of mafia families in Italian communites, basically replacing the role of government in those communities. The Tom Pendergast machine in KC got things done too. Heck, I’m sure things got done when Giancana ran Chicago. Apparently getting things done is a successful way to get a community to ignore corruption. (I know you didn’t vote for him, this is an accusation at the Chicago voters.) As for myself, I’d feel quite the fool if I let somebody defraud me and steal from me while I was busy admiring his team of snow plows. But I guess we all set our own priorities in politicians… ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daley-attacks-miegs-field/165512/38 "2003-04-01T20:08:16Z")
Hey, hasn’t Jerry Springer been dropping hints that he’d like to get back in politics? He was mayor of Cincinnati for a while. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daley-attacks-miegs-field/165512/39 "2003-04-01T21:10:51Z")
I’m just wondering how long before Microsoft issues a terrain patch for Flight Sim like they’ve done in the past for the Berlin Wall\* and WTC. Any bets on what the new default airport will be? - IIRC, in Flight Sim 2000, the Berlin Wall simply disappears if you fly in that area after whatever date it came down, and is there if you’re in the neighborhood before that date. ---
**Author:** ![Cerri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3bc359/32.png) [@Cerri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerri)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daley-attacks-miegs-field/165512/40 "2003-04-01T21:39:13Z")
> [@](#): > > What the majority of citizens in Chicago want doesn’t matter anymore. Daley feels he can do what he wants wherever he wants within the city limits. To hell with anyone or anything else. Hmm…why does that sound familiar…a politician doing whatever he feels like without listening to the public’s opinion? Where have I heard something like this before… Ohhhh yeah…now I remember…I’m guessing Daley has plans to run for President? Showing good presidential form right there, based on our current administration. Smooth move, Daley :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daley-attacks-miegs-field/165512.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daley-attacks-miegs-field/165512.md?page=3)