# (Dallas, Baton Rouge) Violence is not the answer. What is? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 17, 2016, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-baton-rouge-violence-is-not-the-answer-what-is/760138 "2016-07-17T18:09:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-baton-rouge-violence-is-not-the-answer-what-is/760138/1 "2016-07-17T18:09:01Z")
IMHO, there are 2 equally horrible situations at work. 1. Police - largely white – who can be characterized as trigger-happy, ill-trained, paranoid or racist, pick one…are shooting civilians, a disproportionate number of whom are black. This has probably been happening for decades but thanks to cell-phone video we have proof. And it largely goes unpunished. 2. Black people, outraged over #1, are shooting white cops. How do we make it stop? Specifically, if you were president, what would you do? It’s not enough to say that #2 is unacceptable without addressing #1 – how do you walk the line and address both simultaneously? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-baton-rouge-violence-is-not-the-answer-what-is/760138/2 "2016-07-17T18:18:19Z")
1. The acts of a few policemen should not be construed as an indictment against all of law enforcement or all white Americans. 2. The acts of a few criminals should not be construed as an indictment against all black Americans. 3. All Americans, regardless of the circumstances of their birth, are entitled to and worthy of equal protection under the law. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-baton-rouge-violence-is-not-the-answer-what-is/760138/3 "2016-07-17T18:23:10Z")
Those are all true statements. Now, how we do make them into policy? ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-baton-rouge-violence-is-not-the-answer-what-is/760138/4 "2016-07-17T18:25:39Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > IMHO, there are 2 equally horrible situations at work. > > 1. Police - largely white – who can be characterized as trigger-happy, ill-trained, paranoid or racist, pick one…are shooting civilians, a disproportionate number of whom are black. This has probably been happening for decades but thanks to cell-phone video we have proof. And it largely goes unpunished. > > 2. Black people, outraged over #1, are shooting white cops. > > How do we make it stop? Specifically, if you were president, what would you do? It’s not enough to say that #2 is unacceptable without addressing #1 – how do you walk the line and address both simultaneously? Well, while #1 deserves its time in the spotlight, shooting sprees very well can be addressed in isolation immediately as they occur. If you want a preemptive policy…some form of national gun control? ---
**Author:** ![Me\_Billy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Me\_Billy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Me_Billy)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-baton-rouge-violence-is-not-the-answer-what-is/760138/5 "2016-07-17T18:32:57Z")
I’ve watched kids shoot other kids in high school. Then it was college. Now they are out in the world. So the question is: What gave kids the idea to shoot/kill other kids with guns in the first place? All I can say is I am glad I am old. I am getting quite disgusted with society. Selfishness, people not following rules of society, shooting other people. As Gandhi said; STOP IT! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-baton-rouge-violence-is-not-the-answer-what-is/760138/6 "2016-07-17T19:06:06Z")
Make law enforcement more transparent by putting cameras on police vehicles and police officers. This would expose police officers who are guilty of abusing their powers and it would protect police officers who are the innocent victims of false allegations of abuse. Repeal the Second Amendment and enact some realistic gun control. I wouldn’t personally favor a total ban but we need some control over guns. Keep working on eliminating the social conditions that make some people feel alienated for American society. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-baton-rouge-violence-is-not-the-answer-what-is/760138/7 "2016-07-17T19:14:19Z")
I think the president should create a Warren Commission on police use of violence, to study the problem and issue recommendations (which would probably include training and body cameras). Short-term, this might release some of the pressure that leads to #2; long-term…who knows. it might actually work. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-baton-rouge-violence-is-not-the-answer-what-is/760138/8 "2016-07-17T20:01:08Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > 1. Black people, outraged over #1, are shooting white cops. > > How do we make it stop? Specifically, if you were president, what would you do? It’s not enough to say that #2 is unacceptable without addressing #1 – how do you walk the line and address both simultaneously? Black Lives Matter is still pushing this “Hands Up, Don’t Shoot” bullshit almost two years after everyone with half a brain knew that Michael Brown was running at a police officer whose gun he had just attempted to steal when he was shot and killed. The first thing I’d do is _not_ be that asshole who says that a teenager shot while beating a man’s head against the ground could have been my own son. ---
**Author:** ![Chihuahua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dec6dc/32.png) [@Chihuahua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chihuahua)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-baton-rouge-violence-is-not-the-answer-what-is/760138/9 "2016-07-17T20:12:26Z")
And yet, even setting aside the case of Michael Brown, cops keep on murdering black people over and over and over. How loud does someone have to shout before people actually LISTEN? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-baton-rouge-violence-is-not-the-answer-what-is/760138/10 "2016-07-17T20:21:41Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Those are all true statements. Now, how we do make them into policy? It is policy. How do we make it fact? ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-baton-rouge-violence-is-not-the-answer-what-is/760138/11 "2016-07-17T20:23:02Z")
Police are a symptom, the society is racist as hell. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-baton-rouge-violence-is-not-the-answer-what-is/760138/12 "2016-07-17T21:41:27Z")
Police training, civilian outreach. Get more black kids to go on ride-alongs with the police, so they can see, from the other point of view, what it’s like. Have police officers speak at schools. Focus on the one-ness, and try to get past the other-ness. ---
**Author:** ![obbn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d6d6ee/32.png) [@obbn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obbn)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-baton-rouge-violence-is-not-the-answer-what-is/760138/13 "2016-07-17T22:00:53Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > Well, while #1 deserves its time in the spotlight, shooting sprees very well can be addressed in isolation immediately as they occur. If you want a preemptive policy…some form of national gun control? I agree something needs to be done, but I question what, if anything gun control would accomplish. Let’s say the anti gunners get their wish and we enact a total firearm confiscation. How is taking my firearms and those of the other millions of law abiding gun owners going to change anything? My guns have never hurt anyone, nor have the firearms of the hundreds of people I know and shoot with. Are we safer because law abiding owners turn in their guns? I don’t think so, in fact I would submit that as a whole we are less secure than before as the still gun welding criminals now have unnamed civilians that can’t defends themselves. Do you really believe that most criminals are going to gladly turn in their firearms of they’re banned? I fail to see how this makes violence go away. What am I missing here? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-baton-rouge-violence-is-not-the-answer-what-is/760138/14 "2016-07-17T22:10:48Z")
I would like to see more effort made, effectively and publicly, at getting the bad cops (the racists, the bullies, the unstable) off of police forces (and preventing them from getting hired on in the first place). I don’t know exactly how to accomplish this, though. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-baton-rouge-violence-is-not-the-answer-what-is/760138/15 "2016-07-17T22:20:16Z")
The answer is systematic changes within our society. Caring that African are treated differently in our society and doing something about it. Making it a priority to have police forces represent the people they serve. Making it a priority to create jobs in the communities whose economies have never kept pace with other communities. Eliminating the police tactic of fighting fire with gasoline. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-baton-rouge-violence-is-not-the-answer-what-is/760138/16 "2016-07-17T22:29:03Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Black Lives Matter is still pushing this “Hands Up, Don’t Shoot” bullshit almost two years after everyone with half a brain knew that Michael Brown was running at a police officer whose gun he had just attempted to steal when he was shot and killed. The first thing I’d do is _not_ be that asshole who says that a teenager shot while beating a man’s head against the ground could have been my own son. Are you talking about the teenager doing nothing wrong who was accosted by an armed stranger in the dark? ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-baton-rouge-violence-is-not-the-answer-what-is/760138/17 "2016-07-17T22:29:19Z")
> [@obbn](#): > > I agree something needs to be done, but I question what, if anything gun control would accomplish. Let’s say the anti gunners get their wish and we enact a total firearm confiscation. How is taking my firearms and those of the other millions of law abiding gun owners going to change anything? My guns have never hurt anyone, nor have the firearms of the hundreds of people I know and shoot with. Are we safer because law abiding owners turn in their guns? I don’t think so, in fact I would submit that as a whole we are less secure than before as the still gun welding criminals now have unnamed civilians that can’t defends themselves. > > Do you really believe that most criminals are going to gladly turn in their firearms of they’re banned? I fail to see how this makes violence go away. What am I missing here? In your above hypothetical (total ban of all guns). Of course everyone would be safer. You don’t see people killing each other with atomic weapons, no? Controlling the production/sale/availability of extremely deadly weapons works. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-baton-rouge-violence-is-not-the-answer-what-is/760138/18 "2016-07-17T22:43:18Z")
_How can there be peace before there is justice ?_ First of all … most police officers are being responsible … most police departments work diligently to investigate and, if needed, punish their misbehaving officers. The commercial media is sensationalizing the exceptions, and power to them … we should be looking _extremely_ closely at _all_ the exceptions. Even if the rate of unjustified killings by police is less than 1%, that’s still a half dozen officers in prison. Are the Police Unions interfering with the prosecution of these very few crimes? Then indict the Unions as criminal organizations, whip out RICO and fucking use it. The real tragedy here is, from what I understand, the Dallas Police Department has been working _diligently_ on these issues. They have a great big chip on their shoulders from way back in November 1963. They’ve worked damn hard to make Dallas a place of true “equal protection under the law”. That demonstration in Dallas had all the screaming, yelling, cursing and all manner of ugly speech. The Dallas Police knew they had to allow it and they did. They didn’t show up there in riot gear with military grade weapons … they wore shorts, kept a low profile, maintained the peace is all. Everyone was literally congratulating each other of a job well done on _both_ sides when those shots rang out … just sad … ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-baton-rouge-violence-is-not-the-answer-what-is/760138/19 "2016-07-17T22:46:24Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > In your above hypothetical (total ban of all guns). Of course everyone would be safer. You don’t see people killing each other with atomic weapons, no? Controlling the production/sale/availability of extremely deadly weapons works. Palestinians are using knives to kill Jews of late … do we also ban clubs, shovels, candlestick holders … take away the guns and we still have violence. This isn’t a numbers game … whether 50 dead from gunshots or 5 dead from stabbings … it’s still a tragedy … fewer innocent deaths isn’t the solution. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-baton-rouge-violence-is-not-the-answer-what-is/760138/20 "2016-07-17T22:48:40Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > Palestinians are using knives to kill Jews of late … do we also ban clubs, shovels, candlestick holders … take away the guns and we still have violence. > > This isn’t a numbers game … whether 50 dead from gunshots or 5 dead from stabbings … it’s still a tragedy … fewer innocent deaths isn’t the solution. 5 is a big difference from 50. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-baton-rouge-violence-is-not-the-answer-what-is/760138.md?page=2)