# Dallas cop kills innocent man **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 10, 2018, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119 "2018-09-10T19:32:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/221 "2018-09-13T08:46:16Z")
Has any local media outlet verified whether the doors in this building close automatically? I’ve seen that claimed in various places. _If_ that’s true, it would be unlikely that the door was “ajar.” ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/222 "2018-09-13T10:44:50Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > Anyway, Bricker’s hypo, I’d like to stress, is not what happened here. Did I misunderstand? I thought the whole point was that Officer Guy-gurr _thought_ it was her apartment and therefore _thought_ she was in danger. If LEO fears had to be founded in reality, there are dozens of killings I’ve seen on YouTube that would be criminal. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/223 "2018-09-13T12:00:23Z")
Let’s keep in mind: 1. Police Officer. 2. White. 3. Female. It will be a mediocre prosecution. She will be acquitted and immediately promoted to Detective. Welcome to Texas. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/224 "2018-09-13T12:49:44Z")
> [@pool](#): > > I could almost imagine a scenario that she arrived at her apartment after this 12-15 hour shift, got angry over noise coming from his apartment, and went up there to confront him and then something went awry. Its hard to imagine someone driven to kill over noise, but this is America and stranger things have happened. That would explain why she was pounding on the door and yelling “Let me in!” Does anyone know if the type of key-fob locks at that apartment have a log of when they were used? Is there a central computer controlling the locks? If so, it might show where she used her fob that night. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/225 "2018-09-13T13:02:33Z")
The ambulance Corps where I was a member used to use these. Yes the information can be recorded at an off-site station. There was a record of the exactly what time each person came into the building using their fob. Same-looking item. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/226 "2018-09-13T13:22:38Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > Has any local media outlet verified whether the doors in this building close automatically? I’ve seen that claimed in various places. _If_ that’s true, it would be unlikely that the door was “ajar.” One of his neighbors has posted a short video of them using the fob and showing the door in what appeared to be a self-closing mode. Sorry I’m not where I can search for it right now. ---
**Author:** ![excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e8c25b/32.png) [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/227 "2018-09-13T13:29:05Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > That would explain why she was pounding on the door and yelling “Let me in!” > > Does anyone know if the type of key-fob locks at that apartment have a log of when they were used? Is there a central computer controlling the locks? If so, it might show where she used her fob that night. This is the type of thing that has me wondering. If this was a civilian shooting, the cops would be reviewing any and all surveillance video and computer logs, if for no other reason than practice in investigative procedures. They would definitely be looking for inconsistencies in her story. In this case, however, it appears the attitude is “There is no reason to do any of that, we already know who did the shooting.” ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/228 "2018-09-13T13:35:40Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > That would explain why she was pounding on the door and yelling “Let me in!” > > Does anyone know if the type of key-fob locks at that apartment have a log of when they were used? Is there a central computer controlling the locks? If so, it might show where she used her fob that night. We have that sort of electronic locks where I work. The centralized kind that can be reprogrammed remotely is a lot more expensive than the ones that you need to actually be at to reprogram. In a hotel, I can see needing the remote programmability but in an apartment building you wouldn’t, so it’s possible that there is no log of when and where the keycards are used. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/229 "2018-09-13T14:03:10Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > I don’t think gun control or repeal of castle laws would matter here, but don’t let that stop you from trying to make political hay. Since she’s a cop, she’d have had a gun no matter what. We don’t do the unarmed police thing here, if you hadn’t noticed. Castle law doesn’t matter, either. She’s a cop and they get to play by different rules from the rest of us. You also don’t do the “not on duty” either. Many countries have armed policemen who wouldn’t even think of carrying their regulation weapon when not on the clock. I don’t know if there are any other countries where it is acceptable for a police officer to wear their uniform while being paid by a private company to act as a security guard, or where actions done while not on duty would be treated as being done by a LEO and not a private citizen (whose job happens to be as a LEO). ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/230 "2018-09-13T14:11:35Z")
[https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theroot.com/amber-guyger-s-family-denies-they-are-racist-despite-ph-1829015278/amp](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theroot.com/amber-guyger-s-family-denies-they-are-racist-despite-ph-1829015278/amp) I have no reason to think this was race related. But I am curious as to what her BILs Hand sign really mean, anyone know? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/231 "2018-09-13T14:15:28Z")
According to your own link, 69. The birthday they were celebrating. ---
**Author:** ![Roy\_Batty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Roy\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roy_Batty)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/232 "2018-09-13T14:36:30Z")
> [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > I’ve been hesitant to speculate it, but that’s one of the first things that went through my mind. Having lived in a downstairs apt I’m all to familiar with noisy upstairs neighbors. I can imagine her knocking on the door, him not responding, her yelling (verbal commands) to open the door and with her anger at a peak shooting when he finally did. > > I’m not saying I believe that this is what happened, but it did cross my mind. And given the “facts” that have been released it fits better that the official version. Makes sense. This would definitely explain the yelling the neighbors heard saying “Let me in”. Again, if she legitimately thought she was at her apartment - and it’s established that she lived alone - why would she think there was anyone in the apt. & be knocking on the door asking to be let in?! If she thought there was a burglar in the apartment that would be an incredibly stupid thing to do -i.e., for one thing it would alert the burglar to her presence; and, a potential burglar could easily shoot through the door - or be prepared for her (with a weapon) as he/she opened the door. Also, as has been mentioned - this can’t be emphasized enough: Not only did the victim have a red door mat (that she didn’t have), but apparently she had to pass by numerous other doors to get to the victim’s door. So, even if you give her the benefit of the doubt & believe she thought she was going to her actual apartment, how could she NOT notice the different doors she had to pass & also not notice the red door mat?! It would be great if there were some kind of video camera outside the apartments (in the hall) w/decent sound & picture quality - this would eliminate the guesswork. However, if something like this were available I think we would already have been told about this - unless there’s a cover-up going on here. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/233 "2018-09-13T15:23:10Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > According to your own link, 69. The birthday they were celebrating. Oh, I saw it. I’m just not buying it. Given the manner of dress and tats gang sign makes way more sense. If you are at your nieces third birthday ok _maybe_ you hold up 3 fingers… but at grandads? That’s silly. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/234 "2018-09-13T15:37:31Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > You also don’t do the “not on duty” either. Many countries have armed policemen who wouldn’t even think of carrying their regulation weapon when not on the clock. I don’t know if there are any other countries where it is acceptable for a police officer to wear their uniform while being paid by a private company to act as a security guard, or where actions done while not on duty would be treated as being done by a LEO and not a private citizen (whose job happens to be as a LEO). That’s correct. I’ve never thought that uniformed, sworn police acting as private security had any place in society. In not a few departments, off duty officers are actually required to carry a weapon. The thinking is that, whether on duty or not, they are sworn officers with full powers of arrest and should be equipped to act. It is also common for officers to carry off duty even when not required to do so. Sometimes it is the reasoning just listed, sometimes it is because they believe they may be subject to retaliation attacks. In any case, this particular incident isn’t one of our typical endless gun control/castle doctrine/mental health system arguments. By the nature of her job and because of the very valid reasons why police are widely mistrusted and feared in this country, it is about her and about a system that may be covering for her. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/235 "2018-09-13T16:07:52Z")
> [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > Oh, I saw it. I’m just not buying it. Given the manner of dress and tats gang sign makes way more sense. If you are at your nieces third birthday ok _maybe_ you hold up 3 fingers… but at grandads? That’s silly. Thing is, the alternate explanation, that he’s throwing gang signs at father-in-law’s birthday family photo is equally, and I would say even more, silly. ---
**Author:** ![Surreal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@Surreal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surreal)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/236 "2018-09-13T16:23:42Z")
> [@Roy\_Batty](#): > > Also, as has been mentioned - this can’t be emphasized enough: Not only did the victim have a red door mat (that she didn’t have), but apparently she had to pass by numerous other doors to get to the victim’s door. Actually this has been mentioned over and over again here, despite the fact that there’s actually no evidence that her floor’s hallway looked any different than the victim’s hallway, and she could easily have been checking messages on her phone while she was walking to the door. You don’t even know what her doormat looked like either. There’s also tons of evidence that people usually don’t notice changes in their immediate visual environment: If you don't think she walked into someone else's apartment by mistake, what do you think actually DID happen? A planned assassination of the man who just happened to be living directly above her apartment? ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/237 "2018-09-13T16:38:58Z")
> [@Surreal](#): > > Actually this has been mentioned over and over again here, despite the fact that there’s actually no evidence that her floor’s hallway looked any different than the victim’s hallway, and she could easily have been checking messages on her phone while she was walking to the door. You don’t even know what her doormat looked like either. > > There’s also tons of evidence that people usually don’t notice changes in their immediate visual environment: > > If you don't think she walked into someone else's apartment by mistake, what do you think actually DID happen? A planned assassination of the man who just happened to be living directly above her apartment? I’m just having trouble with the door being ajar. As I noted above, a neighbor posted a video of not only opening the door with the fob but allowing it close on its own. From my view they seemed to operate in a similar fashion to hotel doors. Being ajar doesn’t make sense. It also doesn’t fit with witness statements that she banged on the door demanding it to be opened. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/238 "2018-09-13T16:49:05Z")
> [@Surreal](#): > > …she could easily have been checking messages on her phone while she was walking to the door… > > There’s also tons of evidence that people usually don’t notice changes in their immediate visual environment: IF it’s true that he had a distinctive red doormat, it’s quite implausible that she didn’t notice it if she was sober. Your video shows changes to an unfamiliar environment; we are much more sensitive to changes in a familiar environment. You aren’t checking messages when you get your key out to put it in a lock, at which point the doormat is prominent in your peripheral vision. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/239 "2018-09-13T16:51:17Z")
From the pictures of [the lock](https://cw33.com/2018/09/09/dallas-police-officer-identified-in-shooting-death-of-neighbor/) on Jean’s door, it appears it may be the [Saflok Insync RD](https://www.gokeyless.com/product/saflok-insync-dclass-rfid-deadbolt-lock/). In the specs it says it offers an audit trail, so it may be possible to see if Guyger went to her apartment first or if she tried to use her fob on his door. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/240 "2018-09-13T17:04:33Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Thing is, the alternate explanation, that he’s throwing gang signs at father-in-law’s birthday family photo is equally, and I would say even more, silly. Let’s agree to disagree on that. BTW, killer’s sister proudly has her picture taken with a shirt that reads, in huge lettering, ALL LIVES MATTER. Would I guess right that you disagree that’s a racist slogan? (What do I win?) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119.md?page=13)