# Dallas cop kills innocent man **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 10, 2018, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119 "2018-09-10T19:32:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/281 "2018-09-14T19:02:08Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I don’t understand why they are not searching the shooter’s apartment. Don’t committers of crimes have their things searched? In my opinion you should only search somebody’s property if you believe that it would provide additional information regarding the crime. If the police already know she was drunk and stoned out of her mind from what they saw when they arrived on the scene, there is no reason to search her apartment. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/282 "2018-09-14T19:30:01Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > In my opinion you should only search somebody’s property if you believe that it would provide additional information regarding the crime. > > If the police already know she was drunk and stoned out of her mind from what they saw when they arrived on the scene, there is no reason to search her apartment. It could have turned up a motive for a deliberate murder. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/283 "2018-09-14T19:38:33Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > It could have turned up a motive for a deliberate murder. They are already devoting all their time looking for evidence against the victim-how much more can you expect of them? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/284 "2018-09-14T19:42:01Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > In my opinion you should only search somebody’s property if you believe that it would provide additional information regarding the crime. > > If the police already know she was drunk and stoned out of her mind from what they saw when they arrived on the scene, there is no reason to search her apartment. I would think it would be because of this: > [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > It could have turned up a motive for a deliberate murder. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/285 "2018-09-14T20:05:40Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I would think it would be because of this: > [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > It could have turned up a motive for a deliberate murder. “It could turn up,” is not the standard needed for a search warrant. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/286 "2018-09-14T20:09:13Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > “It could turn up,” is not the standard needed for a search warrant. Neither is “He was murdered”, but guess what? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/287 "2018-09-14T20:11:10Z")
I didn’t mean that was the standard. I thought it would be standard to look at the apartment of a person who kills someone like this. Just as, like, something that police regularly did. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/288 "2018-09-14T20:24:39Z")
Bricker and Gray Ghost: > [@](#): > > I thought that in Bricker’s hypo, it actually was her apartment, not that she only thought it was. If it’s her actual apartment, and Mr. Jean is wandering around it in his undies at 10 PM with all the lights out, then her killing him when he won’t show his hands (or whatever else he did that’d give a reasonable person in her situation the reasonable apprehension of immediate serious bodily harm—a home intruder who won’t show his hands, and is much bigger than you to boot, counts) is justifiable in Texas. Thanks to both **Bricker** and **Gray Ghost** for this analysis. What’s the case in Texas if it’s too dark in the apartment for her to see his hands or if he shows compliance? Again, lights off, almost totally dark (according to arrest warrant), and she’s entering from a lighted hallway. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/289 "2018-09-14T20:29:06Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > They are already devoting all their time looking for evidence against the victim-how much more can you expect of them? > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Neither is “He was murdered”, but guess what? :rolleyes: If there wasn’t a search warrant for the scene of a killing by a police officer for things such as shell casings, home surveillance video that may exist, etc., you’d be complaining about that, too. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/290 "2018-09-14T20:40:41Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > :rolleyes: If there wasn’t a search warrant for the scene of a killing by a police officer for things such as shell casings, home surveillance video that may exist, etc., you’d be complaining about that, too. That’s why the big announcement was that they found a little pot. :rolleyes: right back atcha. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/291 "2018-09-14T20:45:00Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > That’s why the big announcement was that they found a little pot. > :rolleyes: right back atcha. Who cares what the media announced? You claimed “they are already devoting all their time looking for evidence against the victim” and that being murdered isn’t a standard for a search warrant, inferring that is the reason there was one. If there was not a search warrant issued, you wouldn’t be complaining about that for the reasons I posted? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/292 "2018-09-14T21:13:08Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > Who cares what the media announced? You claimed “they are already devoting all their time looking for evidence against the victim” and that being murdered isn’t a standard for a search warrant, inferring that is the reason there was one. If there was not a search warrant issued, you wouldn’t be complaining about that for the reasons I posted? It’s not about what they announced. It’s about what they found. If they were just looking for evidence from the cop, then they would not have found the pot. Finding the pot thus suggests their reason for the search is to find a way to blame the victim. Now maybe they just have procedures that say that, if they stumble upon pot, they have to include it, and they won’t actually use it to try and defend the cop. If so, great. But, if they do use that, then I share Czarcasm’s outlook. The victim being on pot would not in any way change the material elements of the story as given. It would only be brought up to make jurors think the victim is a druggie and use their natural prejudice to get them to side with the cop. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/293 "2018-09-14T21:34:38Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > It’s not about what they announced. It’s about what they found. \*\*If they were just looking for evidence from the cop, then they would not have found the pot. Finding the pot thus suggests their reason for the search is to find a way to blame the victim. \*\* Followed by: > [@](#): > > **Now maybe they just have procedures that say that, if they stumble upon pot, they have to include it** The second quote does not follow the first. Finding the pot suggests their reason for the search is to find a way to blame the victim…unless they have procedures that say “they have to include it.” That’s a big “if.” > [@](#): > > But, if they do use that, then I share Czarcasm’s outlook. It’s irrelevant if “they” use it. If it’s something that has to be included in the report, then it has to be included regardless of what a lawyer does with the information in defense of his client at some future time. What I commented on regarding “Czarcasm’s outlook” was his claim that “they are already devoting all their time looking for evidence against the victim” and the inference that that was a reason a search warrant was issued. No, “he was murdered” is not the standard needed for a search warrant, and no one claimed it was. People that are complaining that a search warrant was issued would be complaining much more if they found out that one wasn’t issued and evidence such as the type I mentioned was not searched for or could be suppressed. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/294 "2018-09-14T21:44:39Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > A man alone at night, at home, in his underwear, in the dark, making excessive noise. That, on its face, seems unlikely. This is called “Wednesday” at my house. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/295 "2018-09-15T12:37:44Z")
So, why exactly hasn’t she been fired yet? Yes, yes, we’re still waiting for all of the facts to come in… but her own story, even if we believe it completely, already shows more than sufficient justification for firing her. And about that noise complaint filed _the same day_ as the shooting, at what time was that complaint made? During the time that she was supposedly on shift? After she got off shift, implying that she did in fact stop at her own actual apartment? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/296 "2018-09-15T12:43:34Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > The victim being on pot would not in any way change the material elements of the story as given. It would only be brought up to make jurors think the victim is a druggie and use their natural prejudice to get them to side with the cop. Yes, why is the dead guy who was in his own home getting tested for drugs, but not the woman who couldn’t remember where her own apartment was? ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/297 "2018-09-15T13:54:33Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > So, why exactly hasn’t she been fired yet? Yes, yes, we’re still waiting for all of the facts to come in… but her own story, even if we believe it completely, already shows more than sufficient justification for firing her. This would occur in most normal jobs. But many LEOs are members of a union, and there are a bunch of convoluted rules & procedures that must be followed before you can fire one. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/298 "2018-09-15T14:42:35Z")
Unions can be cooperative in such matters if they want to be. But white cop / black victim means the Blue Wall goes up pretty much automatically. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/299 "2018-09-15T15:06:58Z")
Yeah, any mention of whether the victim had marijuana or not is (or should be) completely irrelevant to the incident. It has nothing to do with the circumstances under which the cop shot him. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/300 "2018-09-15T15:22:59Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > AIUI Dallas PD did find some weed in Jean’s apartment, less than half an ounce, along with \*\*two shell casings \*\*and other evidence. \*\*Big deal. \*\* Still doesn’t excuse her shooting him, even if Jean looked like an extra from Cheech & Chong. > > I can barely see the glimmer of an attempt by Guyger’s team to assert that she tried to give him an order to stop approaching her, while she was outside, and in uniform, and that Jean’s possible intoxication on weed led him to respond slowly or not perceive her commands. I don’t agree with that, but I can see the argument being made. It is a big deal. The two shell casings found **inside** the apartment help to establish where the shooter was when she shot the victim. That is a significant fact in determining the sequence of events. And, they need a search warrant to do that. The victim is dead, but someone still owns that apartment. Absent exigent circumstances, which didn’t exist here, they needed a warrant to search the apartment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119.md?page=16)