# Dallas cop kills innocent man **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 10, 2018, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119 "2018-09-10T19:32:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/21 "2018-09-10T21:33:34Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > It’s exactly what a jury will be considering. > > It’s going to be very hard to explain that someone didn’t immediately didn’t notice different furniture and decorations in “their” apartment. > > It’s a terrible tragedy for the victim and the officer. Reports say this officer is on a elite response team. Probably had a very promising future. But, she’s got to face a trial for her negligence. You know, trying to paint it as a tragedy “for the victim and the officer” is pretty fucking offensive. She **gets** to face a trial. He has no such option. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/22 "2018-09-10T21:37:40Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > What the fuck is it going to take to fix American police? > > I’m thinking, for every inappropriate police shooting, that officer’s chief is executed. Not just the murders, but every single inappropriate shooting. No, I don’t think so. It is a stupid idea. If such an idiotic policy were enacted, it would only encourage chiefs of police to cover for their underlings. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/23 "2018-09-10T21:43:02Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > It’s a terrible tragedy for the victim and the officer. Reports say this officer is on a elite response team. Probably had a very promising future. But, she’s got to face a trial for her negligence. I would think this was sarcasm if I didn’t know you. See, the way justice works is that if a victim’s tragedy is attributable to your actions, whether deliberate or negligent, there are consequences. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/24 "2018-09-10T21:51:25Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > What do you think they are making it out to be? Well, some around here (Dallas) are making noises about it being a racial thing, or cold blooded murder or a lot of things that it is looking like it is not. I’m not defending her- my first question when I heard about it was “Why did she shoot first and ask questions later?” But I do think that without the whole story, it’s also premature to go around saying things like that it’s offensive to say that it’s a tragedy for both of them without knowing the whole story. The real question here is that we all think she probably should have had better presence of mind and tried to de-escalate the situation. But we don’t know what was going on in her mind- we don’t know what she faced on that 15 hour shift that she just finished. And I also think that calling this a “police shooting” is inaccurate- she didn’t shoot him in the course of doing her police job. I’m not sure what the right term is, but I’m pretty sure “police shooting” is misleading at best. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/25 "2018-09-10T21:55:24Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > I would think this was sarcasm if I didn’t know you. > > See, the way justice works is that if a victim’s tragedy is attributable to your actions, whether deliberate or negligent, there are consequences. I understand and accept that there are consequences for criminal negligence. I fully expect the officer to serve prison time for manslaughter. Unless there is additional information that hasn’t been reported. Off hand, I can’t imagine any possible defense. A plea deal may be the best option. That’s the DA’s decision. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/26 "2018-09-10T21:56:02Z")
Latest news: > **[Victim's family disputes official account of the moments before Amber...](https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2018/09/11/victim-s-family-disputes-official-account-of-the-moments-before-amber-guyger-shot-botham-jean/)** > > Dallas Police Officer Amber Guyger saw only a silhouette across the room in a dark apartment Thursday before she shot 26-year-old Botham Jean,... ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/27 "2018-09-10T22:15:49Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > … Reports say this officer is on a elite response team. … By Texas standards. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/28 "2018-09-10T22:48:32Z")
Something fishy about this. I should know. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/29 "2018-09-10T22:54:20Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Something fishy about this. I should know. Nope. Just an overzealous cop who wandered into the wrong apartment. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/30 "2018-09-10T23:03:21Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Something fishy about this. I should know. > [@Leaffan](#): > > Nope. Just an overzealous cop who wandered into the wrong apartment. Check the username. I heard an interview with his mother this morning. Very sad. I’ll wait for more info before passing judgment, but I would not want to be in her shoes. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/31 "2018-09-10T23:16:51Z")
I hear she gave commands that she said he did not obey that compelled her to use her firearm. Who would listen to “commands” from a stranger bursting into their home anyway? For all he knew she was there for nefarious purposes. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/32 "2018-09-10T23:25:08Z")
They need to release the results of the drug/alcohol testing. Maybe there _is_ a simple explanation that’s being withheld. It would explain a lot of the accumulated mistakes. Parked in the wrong spot, went to wrong flat, didn’t notice doormat, or the difference in furnishings. Reacted too quickly! ---
**Author:** ![Rhiannon8404](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhiannon8404/32/17929_2.png) [@Rhiannon8404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhiannon8404)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/33 "2018-09-10T23:33:02Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > I hear she gave commands that she said he did not obey that compelled her to use her firearm. Who would listen to “commands” from a stranger bursting into their home anyway? For all he knew she was there for nefarious purposes. That’s my thought. Of course, he didn’t obey her commands. If someone walks through my front door and starts issuing orders, I more likely to go for my own weapon, not just obey them. After shooting her neighbor she entered the apartment and called 911 and ONLY THEN did she realize she was in the wrong apartment. There has to more to it than just parking on the wrong floor. I bet we’ll find out something when the lab reports come back. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/34 "2018-09-10T23:48:47Z")
> [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > … I’m not liking how they are handling it so far. … In what way(s) would you like them to handle it differently? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/35 "2018-09-11T00:20:01Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > They need to release the results of the drug/alcohol testing. > > Maybe there _is_ a simple explanation that’s being withheld. It would explain a lot of the accumulated mistakes. > > Parked in the wrong spot, went to wrong flat, didn’t notice doormat, or the difference in furnishings. Reacted too quickly! And, y’know… killed somebody because he didn’t do what he told her to. ---
**Author:** ![chaika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chaika/32/405_2.png) [@chaika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chaika)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/36 "2018-09-11T00:25:06Z")
The rush to blame the victim in some way has been revolting (not on this thread, but in reactions I have read/heard elsewhere). Apparently, some people seem to think that it is his fault for (possibly) not locking his door or for not complying with the police officer’s “commands” or whatever. Here’s a guy alone at home, someone enters his apartment and shoots him, and he is somehow to blame? Oy vey. And frankly, I would like to know exactly what the officer said to him, and how much time elapsed between her “commands” and shooting her gun. Mr. Jean may not have even really had a chance to react. He must have been utterly confused by the whole situation: a stranger in his apartment evidently ordering him to do something. Who among us would instantly comply in that scenario? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/37 "2018-09-11T00:46:57Z")
This story is being watched closely in central Arkansas. Jean graduated from Harding Univ a couple years ago. Some of his friends are finishing their degrees. A vigil for him is being held tonight at the University. > **[Harding students remember the life of Botham Jean](https://katv.com/news/local/harding-students-remember-the-life-of-botham-jean)** > > A moment of silence and prayer was scheduled to take place before Harding University's home football game this evening, but due to weather the game was postponed. Even before Botham Jean's tragic passing, he was known and loved by everyone at... > [@](#): > > Jean was loved by everyone on campus, most people quick to point out his singing voice. His friends listed off countless things they’ll miss about jean - his leadership, his faith., “most of all, I’m just going to miss that big hug. that big Sub-T handshake we have, that brotherhood we shared. but at the end of the day, I know I’ll see him again,” said Graves. And his forever status with students and alumni at Harding: legendary. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/38 "2018-09-11T00:56:27Z")
Copy and paste the following and do a Google search on it: "A Dallas police officer, who spoke with NBC 5 under the condition of anonymity, said Guyger was assigned to the department’s elite Crime Response Team and had just finished a 14-hour shift serving warrants in high-crime areas. When she arrived home, she took the elevator to a floor that was not hers. She then went to what she thought was her door, put the key in and struggled with the lock. Guyger then put down several things she was holding and continued to fight with the key when the resident swung open the door and startled her. Guyger believed Jean, who was wearing only underwear, was an intruder and shot him with her service weapon. It wasn’t until police and rescue units began arriving that she realized she was not at her apartment. Once realizing her deadly mistake, she became emotional and fully cooperated with officers, including offering to provide blood samples.” Multiple news websites come up. But the text no longer appears on any of them. Why? Because the narrative has now mysteriously changed. Now, the door was not only unlocked, but it was ajar (which of course would creep out anyone). Now, Guyger actually went into the dimly lit apartment (which of course means she wouldn’t see how different everything was). Now, Guyger shouted commands that were obviously unheeded (if only the guy had obeyed…). Now, she shot him _inside_ the apartment (which of course she’d have every right to do, given that she thought she was in her home). My guess? She and her lawyer have had a couple of days to figure out a less shitty story. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/39 "2018-09-11T01:08:02Z")
> [@bump](#): > > . . . > > And I also think that calling this a “police shooting” is inaccurate- she didn’t shoot him in the course of doing her police job. I’m not sure what the right term is, but I’m pretty sure “police shooting” is misleading at best. Except in Texas, police are encouraged to carry a firearm when off duty, and can apply for pay is they perform police duties when not in uniform. > [@](#): > > “You still have the same authority,” explained Howard Williams, a former police chief in San Marcos and a criminal justice lecturer at Texas State University. “Just because you’re off duty doesn’t mean you’ve given up that authority.” > [@](#): > > Some departments, like Houston, have policies specifying that an officer can’t carry a firearm while drinking off duty, but rules vary by agency. [Even Off Duty, Police Have Wide Discretion to Shoot](https://apps.texastribune.org/unholstered/off-duty/) ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/40 "2018-09-11T01:11:25Z")
She’d just finished a long shift. I’d be interested to know what her sleep/rest and work history were for the prior week as people who are fatigued make poor decisions. That’s not to remove responsibility from her but it could point to systemic issues in the police force and the way they roster that leads to cops being less than mentally fit for work. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119.md?page=3)