# Dallas cop kills innocent man **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 10, 2018, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119 "2018-09-10T19:32:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/81 "2018-09-11T15:31:33Z")
The New York Times had this from the person living next door to the victim, “To get to Mr. Jean’s apartment, Officer Guyger would have had to walk past 15 to 20 apartments — many of which have distinct wreaths, doormats and trash cans, Ms. Kinsey [the next-door neighbor] said. Mr. Jean, for instance, had a red doormat outside his apartment.” So she didn’t notice that the hall looked different? I’ll be honest; I’ve gotten off on the wrong floor of my apartment building once or twice, but as soon as I did, I noticed that the floor, walls and so forth looked different. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/82 "2018-09-11T15:50:19Z")
I’m seeing something on facebook that suggests this police officer dated Mr. Jean in the recent past. If that’s true, that would be an indication of something else going on. Maybe. I do hope the truth is told and I hope the family receives justice. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/83 "2018-09-11T15:59:31Z")
Why would you even bother with “news” via Facebook? ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/84 "2018-09-11T16:07:31Z")
> [@bump](#): > > WTF does that have to do with intent to murder anyone? My point was that it does show an intent to resolve the situation in a way other than shooting, which is kind of the exact opposite of intent to murder someone. Hence manslaughter instead of murder. How many seconds did she allow for the likely scared and confused person to move in a way that she felt was complying to her orders? Two seconds? Or did she give him a full five seconds before she blew him away? My point is that police “waiting for compliance before shooting” tends to be measured with the second hand of a stop watch and “not complying” tends to mean “moving in any way and also not moving at all.” ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/85 "2018-09-11T16:08:05Z")
**Bump** -sure, everybody can occasionally “check out” mentally and go on autopilot from time to time when tired and doing doing mindless routine activities. Where I take issue is her _extent_ of mindlessness, I simply don’t buy it as plausible without other as-of-yet unknown mitigating factors, such as being under the influence. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/86 "2018-09-11T16:09:16Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > Why would you even bother with “news” via Facebook? If it’s on the internet, it _has to_ be true. That’s the law. Just like something you hear on TV has to be true. Duh! Doesn’t _everybody_ know this by now? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/87 "2018-09-11T16:48:58Z")
I’m not sure the implication intended by the several posts of the theme ‘nobody could really go into the wrong apartment and think it was theirs’. It’s not plausible to me the officer deliberately went to the wrong apartment, if that’s the suggestion, pending any evidence connecting her to the victim in a way that makes it plausible. She was drunk or on drugs, OK that seems possible. On credibility, I am moderately but more 360 degree skeptical, of the police _and_ the media (and/or crusading bloggers etc to the extent that’s the media). And I’d want to see solid evidence that a criminal proceeding has been corrupted, when one occurs which of course it hasn’t in this case. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/88 "2018-09-11T16:50:38Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > How many seconds did she allow for the likely scared and confused person to move in a way that she felt was complying to her orders? Two seconds? And how long does it take for her to turn on the light switch (one of the articles I read gave that as the explanation for her not knowing she was not in her apartment)? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/89 "2018-09-11T16:54:10Z")
If driving while under the influence is a serious crime you’d think carrying a gun while under the influence would be a no-no as well. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/90 "2018-09-11T17:21:47Z")
Will someone explain to me how parking on the wrong level causes the numbers on the elevator buttons to misalign themselves? It doesn’t matter what fucking floor she parks on-that isn’t going to change what button she pushes to get to her own floor. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/91 "2018-09-11T17:36:06Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Does Castle Doctrine only apply if it’s really your own “castle”, or also if you mistake someone else’s castle for your own? > > Because if the latter, that’s an enormous loophole. > [@Ambivalid](#): > > No shit. Anyone could break into someone’s home, shoot everyone in it, then claim they thought they were in their own home and were defending themselves. Granted, they’d have to have some semblance of a coherent and/or plausible reason for claiming this but still. Again, really? Have some imagination. As I said earlier, I didn’t mention the fact that Texas has castle doctrine legislation because I thought it was a valid legal defense if you are not actually inside your home. I mentioned it because it may have affected her state of mind - her inclination to shoot rather than retreat if she _thought_ she was in her own home. Castle doctrine and stand your ground laws that reduce the obligation to retreat can have disastrous consequences. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/92 "2018-09-11T17:39:44Z")
> [@bump](#): > > WTF does that have to do with intent to murder anyone? My point was that it does show an intent to resolve the situation in a way other than shooting, which is kind of the exact opposite of intent to murder someone. Hence manslaughter instead of murder. The death occurred during the commission of breaking and entering, therefore intent is irrelevant: felony murder. mc ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/93 "2018-09-11T17:43:44Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Will someone explain to me how parking on the wrong level causes the numbers on the elevator buttons to misalign themselves? It doesn’t matter what fucking floor she parks on-that isn’t going to change what button she pushes to get to her own floor. There are buildings with attached parking garages where there’s a door from every floor of the garage to the corresponding floor of the building itself. So you can park on your own floor and go straight to your apartment (or office), no elevator required. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/94 "2018-09-11T17:44:06Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Will someone explain to me how parking on the wrong level causes the numbers on the elevator buttons to misalign themselves? It doesn’t matter what fucking floor she parks on-that isn’t going to change what button she pushes to get to her own floor. I think this probably means she didn’t get on an elevator at all. Just went right from the parking area to the hall/floor of the apartments. It would be interesting to know if that’s the set up, and that’s what she usually does. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/95 "2018-09-11T17:51:12Z")
One of the news quotes in this thread says “When she arrived home, she took the elevator to a floor that was not hers” ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/96 "2018-09-11T17:51:44Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > I didn’t see **aceplace57** suggesting otherwise. Yes, she’s got to face trial for her actions, and accept the consequences if she’s found (or pleads) guilty. Jean has had his life taken from him, but that doesn’t mean it’s not a tragedy for the officer, too. She will live a long life with the knowledge that she stupidly killed someone. She’ll never be a cop again. She’ll be a felon, which will severely crimp her career options. She’ll never be allowed to legally own a gun again. I think it’s pretty offensive to say “it’s a terrible tragedy for the victim and the officer” as though they are equally victims here. This was _caused_ by the officer, through appalling negligence at the very least, and possibly worse. To call any subsequent prosecution, trial & punishment a “tragedy” on a par with her victim being dead is totally inappropriate. I mean, if you really think that subsequent punishment of the officer is also a tragedy - well the justice system is under our control, so that part could be avoided by not prosecuting her, right? I don’t call that part a tragedy, I call it “justice”. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/97 "2018-09-11T17:56:52Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > One of the news quotes in this thread says “When she arrived home, she took the elevator to a floor that was not hers” That’s the mystery news story that was allegedly removed from every news site it originally appeared on. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/98 "2018-09-11T18:01:09Z")
So do we have any confirmation that she walk directly from the wrong parking level to the wrong apartment floor? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/99 "2018-09-11T18:11:35Z")
> [@cgg419](#): > > Seems to me, firing a gun at someone, in the dark, at close range, is intentionally or knowingly killing someone. > [@bump](#): > > **cgg419** , that’s just a stupid statement. By that criteria, anyone who shoots at anyone would meet the criteria for murder, even if done in self-defense. Intent means that you deliberately intended to murder that specific person. Yes, intent does not require extensive prior planning. I don’t think it requires that she must have planned to kill him before she entered the apartment, for example. But it does require _some_ time for ideation, to consider the consequences and reject alternatives. It would be almost impossible to prove unless there’s some more sinister aspect to this, that she didn’t enter accidentally. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/100 "2018-09-11T18:14:38Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > The death occurred during the commission of breaking and entering, therefore intent is irrelevant: felony murder. > > mc This is, shockingly, a completely inaccurate statement of the felony murder rule’s application to this set of facts. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119.md?page=6)