# Dallas cop kills innocent man **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 10, 2018, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119 "2018-09-10T19:32:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/141 "2018-09-11T22:40:32Z")
> [@Roy\_Batty](#): > > …When this story first broke late last week, the details were that the woman was trying to get into the wrong apt. & her door key wouldn’t work, and then she was knocking on the door & yelling, trying to get in… It has been asserted in various places (and earlier in the thread) that the story somehow changed from an earlier more incriminating account _after it broke_. But I’ve yet to see any reliable explanation of what this really means. Of course it’s plausible that she or her police buddies might try to change their account to try to make her actions seem less egregious. But it’s not plausible that all the news outlets are _also_ in on this conspiracy, that news websites would then just delete an older statement from their websites simply because the police released a new version. ---
**Author:** ![Roy\_Batty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Roy\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roy_Batty)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/142 "2018-09-11T22:53:51Z")
Well, the initial story that she was trying to get into a locked apartment sounds the most likely, and it’s not just me saying this. This article seems to corroborate that she did indeed try to get into the apartment, which was locked - neighbors heard someone knocking on a door and a woman yelling “Let me in!” right before the shooting, which no one would say if they could just walk into an apartment. So, ergo, her story about walking into an unlocked apartment is complete & unadulterated bullshit: > **[Reports of pepper-spray projectile use concern Dallas chief](https://www.yahoo.com/news/attorneys-family-criticize-affidavit-dallas-shooting-062117989.html?bcmt=1&guccounter=1)** > > DALLAS (AP) — The Dallas police chief said Tuesday she has called for a full review and plans to meet with protest leaders after learning about reports that police used pepper-spray projectiles at a demonstration over a black man's death. Again, Dallas is a high crime city (I know from personal experience), and I don’t see why anyone would be stupid enough to leave their door unlocked - unless you’re a complete idiot. And, B. Jean did not strike me as stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/143 "2018-09-11T23:00:28Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/144 "2018-09-11T23:10:30Z")
> [@Roy\_Batty](#): > > …This article seems to corroborate that she did indeed try to get into the apartment, which was locked - neighbors heard someone knocking on a door and a woman yelling “Let me in!” right before the shooting… Based on that article, this is hearsay passed on by activist attorneys for the victim. I agree that the police account is implausible, but I’m not going to take that as reliable either until we get first hand accounts from reliable sources. Unfortunately, the activist side have repeatedly undermined credibility just as much as the police side by their lack of concern for the truth when a case doesn’t fit their agenda. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/145 "2018-09-11T23:15:17Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Based on that article, this is hearsay passed on by activist attorneys for the victim. I agree that the police account is implausible, but I’m not going to take that as reliable either until we get first hand accounts from reliable sources. Unfortunately, the activist side have repeatedly undermined credibility just as much as the police side by their lack of concern for the truth when a case doesn’t fit their agenda. The “activist” side? Which side would that be, again? ---
**Author:** ![Roy\_Batty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Roy\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roy_Batty)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/146 "2018-09-11T23:18:05Z")
No problem. You can choose to believe that someone would leave a door unlocked in a high crime city - especially in an apartment, when numerous people are coming and going at all hours. I do not believe this. I can guarantee that you’d have to be a naive fool to leave your door unlocked in Dallas - and, again, an risk assurance associate doesn’t strike me as naive or a fool. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/147 "2018-09-11T23:25:57Z")
> [@Roy\_Batty](#): > > No problem. You can choose to believe that someone would leave a door unlocked in a high crime city - especially in an apartment, when numerous people are coming and going at all hours. I do not believe this. You’d have to be a fool to leave your door unlocked in Dallas. When I said I find the police account “implausible”, what did you think I meant? The fact that I don’t think that second-hand hearsay claims from people with a strong agenda the _other_ way are not a reliable source does not mean I believe the police. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/148 "2018-09-11T23:28:30Z")
I can believe that someone might have left their door unlocked in a high crime city. I live in a high crime city, but I am absent-minded enough to occasionally leave my freakin’ keys in the door. Because I am stupid sometimes. But never have I ever left my door ajar. Not at 10:00PM, dressed only in my underwear. If the apartment was dark and the hallway was brightly lit, it would have been hard for Jean to not notice that his door was open. So an ajar door seems way too pat to me. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/149 "2018-09-11T23:41:46Z")
It won’t take investigators long to find any connection between Guyger and Jean. For now, it’s 2nd hand info from neighbors they heard Guyger demanding to be let in. A personal connection between these two people would shift the focus of the entire case. It wouldn’t be a tragic error anymore. This case is going to a Grand jury. They’ll decide what charges are indicated. > **[Dallas police officer could face stiffer charge for killing unarmed neighbor,...](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/09/10/us/dallas-police-officer-amber-guyger-arrest/index.html)** > > A Dallas police officer stands charged with manslaughter in the fatal shooting of a man she mistakenly thought was in her apartment, but a prosecutor would not rule out a more serious charge Monday. > [@](#): > > a prosecutor would not rule out a more serious charge Monday. > “The grand jury will be that entity that will make the final decision in terms of the charge or charges that will come out of this case,” Dallas County District Attorney Faith Johnson told reporters. “We prepare to present a thorough case to the grand jury of Dallas County, so that the right decision can be made in this case.” ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/150 "2018-09-11T23:43:16Z")
> [@Randolph](#): > > [Neighbors Dispute Dallas Cop’s Account of Botham Jean’s Death](https://www.thedailybeast.com/attorney-neighbors-dispute-dallas-cops-account-of-botham-jeans-death) If that’s true (IF), then that bolsters my belief that she had a beef with this guy and murdered him, using mistaken house as an excuse. I mean, if she said “let me in” that indicates she was expecting a person in there. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/151 "2018-09-11T23:50:10Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > If that’s true (IF), then that bolsters my belief that she had a beef with this guy and murdered him, using mistaken house as an excuse. I mean, if she said “let me in” that indicates she was expecting a person in there. I can believe that she had a beef with him, that’s really why she went there, and that she _ended up_ killing him in a fit of rage or whatever. And that the mistaken apartment thing was made up afterwards. I have trouble believing that she really _planned it out_ to murder him this way, because as a prepared excuse “I thought it was my apartment” is just so implausible and was never going to get her off the hook for at least manslaughter. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/152 "2018-09-12T00:02:49Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > In Texas, Sec. 9.42 of the Penal Code provides that deadly force is legal when used by a person protecting their own property from burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime. > > Sec. 9.32 provides that force is lawfully used against a person who unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor’s occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment. > > So if she entered her own home, and encountered someone she reasonably believed to be present unlawfully to commit theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime, Texas law seems to permit deadly force. > > This analysis addresses your comment, “Even if she was on her own home.” It does not address the actual situation at hand, where she was not in her own home. (underline mine) I disagree. I’m guessing that is a point that lawyers would argue and a jury would decide, but based on what we know happened the events don’t meet the above criteria. As filmore (above) pointed out there could have been any number of reasons another person might have been in there and not been up to mischief. She neither took the time or prudent steps to identify the victim to meet the Penal Code requirements above. I mean, come on, she didn’t turn on the light until after shooting. He did not enter with force. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/153 "2018-09-12T00:04:20Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > I can believe that she had a beef with him, that’s really why she went there, and that she _ended up_ killing him in a fit of rage or whatever. And that the mistaken apartment thing was made up afterwards. I have trouble believing that she really _planned it out_ to murder him this way, because as a prepared excuse “I thought it was my apartment” is just so implausible and was never going to get her off the hook for at least manslaughter. Easiest thing of all, if that’s what she wanted to do, was to close Jean’s door immediately after making sure he was dead, go back to her apartment, and act she heard nothing. She was up 15 hours, crashing as soon as she got home wouldn’t be unlikely. If asked, be like, “Gunshots? What gunshots? Here?!” This after picking up her brass, and doing other things to muddy the physical evidence waters. Cops may never have even thought of her as a suspect, and only tangentially as a witness during their canvass. People die all of the time in big cities, and the authorities have only an inkling of who might’ve killed them. They catch most murderers because most people are murdered by those they know, or those they were involved with. That, and most criminals can’t keep their damned mouths shut. Thankfully. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/154 "2018-09-12T00:10:04Z")
I haven’t seen this question answered anywhere. Where is the cop’s apartment relative to the victim’s? Were the units situated similiarly (like one on top of the other) but on different floors, or were there few similarities in their placement? In other words, out of all the units in that complex, what was it about the victim’s that could make her think it was her home? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/155 "2018-09-12T00:11:32Z")
His apartment was directly above hers. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/156 "2018-09-12T00:15:53Z")
Never mind, I found this: > [@](#): > > The only connection we have been able to make is that she was his immediate downstairs neighbor,” Meritt said. > **[Attorney reveals potential link between a Dallas cop and the innocent man she...](https://www.rawstory.com/2018/09/attorney-reveals-potential-link-dallas-cop-innocent-man-gunned-apartment/?comments=disqus)** > > Noise complaints preceded the incident in which a Dallas cop shot and killed a black man in his own apartment.Amber Guyger, 30, had just finished a 15-hour shift when she claims to have accidentally approached the wrong apartment, where she found her... ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/157 "2018-09-12T00:29:59Z")
Because she was still in uniform will Jean’s heirs be able to collect a multi-million dollar settlement from the Dallas Police Department–or will the fact she was off-duty get them off the hook? ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/158 "2018-09-12T00:52:17Z")
Still haven’t released the drug/alcohol test results. My guess is THAT’S where the explanation lies. Who overlooks the wrong parking spot, wrong floor, red doormat, wrong apartment? And then instantly fires their weapon? That sounds like an LE officer with impaired judgement to me. Would a police force pull together to protect one of their own? It’d be easy enough to alter the shift length to match the hour. Would they fudge the drug/alcohol results? Unfortunately current attitudes to the police are not favourable due to the public watching, time and again, police officers get away with shootings, that seem highly suspect. It’s become painfully obvious that good cops are totally at ease with standing by and remaining silent in such situations, which horribly undermines people’s overall trust in LE. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/159 "2018-09-12T01:20:11Z")
Thailand is noted for having more images of Buddha than it has human beings. The U.S.A. has more guns than it has human beings. Americans are 51 times more likely to be killed by gunfire than people in the United Kingdom. The majority of America’s firearm-related deaths are attributed to self-harm. > [@Scumpup](#): > > I don’t think gun control or repeal of castle laws would matter here, but don’t let that stop you from trying to make political hay. Since she’s a cop, she’d have had a gun no matter what. We don’t do the unarmed police thing here, if you hadn’t noticed. Castle law doesn’t matter, either. She’s a cop and they get to play by different rules from the rest of us. All this confused thinking results from the American love of carrying and brandishing guns. In a country with saner mentality and/or gun control, cops would be much less inclined to fire so frivolously. It’s sad that this has to be explained. Many Americans want to Make America Great Again by reliving the Wild Wild West. Too bad they’re too ignorant to know that towns in the wild west often had strict gun control! > [@Riemann](#): > > Yup, but the “if I came into what I thought was my house” clause is the key to that sentence, isn’t it. It’s why any sensible society should hold people who are armed and prepared to kill (whether police officers or otherwise) to a high enough standard of sobriety and awareness that they would not be in the wrong fucking apartment without realizing it. Very good point. Someone \*encouraged \*to hold and brandish and who’ll probably be acquitted of the likely negligent homicide(s) that result, should be held to very high standards. Instead we see cowards, drunks and racists killing with impunity because they wear a badge. In another thread I suggested that an LEO who decided to do cartwheels and ended up accidentally discharging his safety-less weapon should have taken the precaution of uncocking the gun before the cartwheels. I was ridiculed for ignorance of America’s gun culture: “Can anyone image carrying a weapon WITHOUT a round in the chamber? Boy, is septimus a clueless gun grabber!” > [@Ashtura](#): > > … I mean, if she said “let me in” that indicates she was expecting a person in there. I think she heard someone walking in “her” apartment and, too drunk to put 2+2 together and connect that with the failure of key to work (or thinking burglar had set the deadbolt?), demanded that the “burglar” let her in. > [@Riemann](#): > > I can believe that she had a beef with him, that’s really why she went there, and that she _ended up_ killing him in a fit of rage or whatever. And that the mistaken apartment thing was made up afterwards… Were the apartment numbers identical except for the floor, i.e. one immediately above the other? Annoying noises are a way beefs develop when two apartments are adjacent vertically. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119/160 "2018-09-12T01:29:33Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Still haven’t released the drug/alcohol test results. My guess is THAT’S where the explanation lies. Who overlooks the wrong parking spot, wrong floor, red doormat, wrong apartment? And then instantly fires their weapon? That sounds like an LE officer with impaired judgement to me. I agree that this still sounds likely, whichever version of her approach and entry to the apartment is true. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dallas-cop-kills-innocent-man/821119.md?page=9)