# Damar Hamlin collapses on field (Now cleared to play football) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** football-nfl\ **Created:** [January 3, 2023, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damar-hamlin-collapses-on-field-now-cleared-to-play-football/977560 "2023-01-03T02:15:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2023, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damar-hamlin-collapses-on-field-now-cleared-to-play-football/977560/121 "2023-01-04T14:55:23Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Wonder if the NFL gives any sort of long-term disability insurance to cover athletes who are injured badly enough that they cannot play again. Ultimately, many (perhaps most) NFL players leave the game because of injuries which prevent them from being able to continue playing – not only those who suffer the catastrophic injuries like Hamlin’s (or those who have become paralyzed while playing), but those who suffer major knee or leg injuries while playing, and are never able to suit up again. ---
**Author:** ![abcdefghij](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/43a26b/32.png) [@abcdefghij](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/abcdefghij)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2023, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damar-hamlin-collapses-on-field-now-cleared-to-play-football/977560/122 "2023-01-04T15:01:59Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > A potential problem is that the EKG can sometimes miss significant cardiac abnormalities, including rare conditions. When I was in cardiac rehab, I watched a guy drop in cardiac arrest on the treadmill in front of me. (He, thankfully, was resuscitated on the scene and had successful bypass afterwards. I don’t know why he was there in the first place.) We were all on 4-lead EKGs. Afterwards, I spent a lot of time talking to the medical staff. Why were we all on continuous monitors if not to catch this sort of thing before it happened? They said that frequently, and in this case, there’s just nothing to see before everything goes south. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2023, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damar-hamlin-collapses-on-field-now-cleared-to-play-football/977560/123 "2023-01-04T15:18:30Z")
> [@abcdefghij](#): > > They said that frequently, and in this case, there’s just nothing to see before everything goes south. That’s frightening. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2023, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damar-hamlin-collapses-on-field-now-cleared-to-play-football/977560/124 "2023-01-04T15:36:36Z")
I had a cardio work up before surgery. They did the EKG and then repeated after giving me a shot to speed up my heart I hated that shot. For about 2 mins you feel totally wiped out. It’s a scary feeling. They did a final EKG an hour later to make sure I was ok before going home. I also wore a monitor for a few days that collected data. I passed and had my surgery. I don’t think they would do that type of test on young athletes. Unless they had health issues. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2023, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damar-hamlin-collapses-on-field-now-cleared-to-play-football/977560/125 "2023-01-04T16:22:10Z")
reporting has changed. mr hamlin’s uncle stated that he was resuscitated twice; his manager is saying his uncle misspoke and that he was resuscitated once on the field. things can get confusing in situations like this. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2023, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damar-hamlin-collapses-on-field-now-cleared-to-play-football/977560/126 "2023-01-04T16:51:50Z")
Did the team doctors use a defibrillator on the field? I’ve only seen CPR mentioned in reports. CPR can be really rough. Broken ribs are common. But it’s better than dying. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2023, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damar-hamlin-collapses-on-field-now-cleared-to-play-football/977560/127 "2023-01-04T16:57:57Z")
That has me wondering, what’s the appropriate CPR to do if someone **already** has broken ribs and chest injuries? Not necessarily in Hamlin’s case, but in general. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2023, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damar-hamlin-collapses-on-field-now-cleared-to-play-football/977560/128 "2023-01-04T17:06:37Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > That has me wondering, what’s the appropriate CPR to do if someone **already** has broken ribs and chest injuries? Not necessarily in Hamlin’s case, but in general IANAD, but “chest trauma” is probably a lot easier to treat than “death”. I.e., reestablishing a heartbeat probably trumps not inflicting further injury. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2023, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damar-hamlin-collapses-on-field-now-cleared-to-play-football/977560/129 "2023-01-04T17:07:42Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Did the team doctors use a defibrillator on the field? > > I’ve only seen CPR mentioned in reports. > > CPR can be really rough. Broken ribs are common. But it’s better than dying. On TV doctors use defibrillators. In real life not so much. The paramedics have defibrillators and would have used it as soon as possible once they found a shockable rhythm. Getting CPR without a defib being used is very bad news. It means there was never a shockable rhythm. Getting defibbed quickly is why he’s alive. I’m not even close to being a paramedic and I’ve used a defib on someone many times. > [@psychobunny](#): > > Just because people have been asking I will try to break down what apparently happened. Keep in mind that this is all speculation based on limited evidence. He is not my patient. > > Based on the facts we know: > -He took a hit to the chest > -He was able to stand up but then collapsed and was reported to be in cardiac arrest > -He was given CPR immediately and was given an electric shock to restart his heart > -He had no prior known heart disease > -He is in critical condition and may have some lung injury > > First of all, he was an elite athlete. I don’t know for sure but I would certainly suspect that he had been screened for obvious cardiac abnormalities with at least an EKG and an echocardiogram at some point so he is unlikely to have had any major undiagnosed prior cardiac issues. While undisclosed arrythmias can occur at any time, it is most likely that his condition was related to the tackle. > > The fact that he was shocked means his heart had not stopped. The purpose of defibrillation/cardioversion is to take a person whose heart is beating erratically and temporarily stop it to try to resume a normal rhythm. This by report was successful. Therefore, we can probably assume a severe arrhythmia ( most likely ventricular fibrillation) either spontaneous or more likely related to the tackle. > > What likely happened was that as a result of the hit, his heart was jolted into an irregular rhythm that did not give enough blood flow to the rest of the body. He would have had enough residual blood to the brain to stand up momentarily before passing out.This happens if the blow to the chest occurs at just the wrong point in the cardiac cycle ( R on T phenomenon). > > The most likely etiology as noted above is commotio cordis. In this situation, a blow to the chest hits at just the wrong part of the cardiac cycle, causing an arrhythmia. This is most common in athletes, especially young men and is seen when a player is struck in the chest by a baseball, for example. This would be an atypical case because it usually occurs under age 20 and is usually related to being hit by a projectile. However, while atypical, it certainly fits the course of events. > > Recovery from cardiac arrest in the field is notoriously poor although improving. Some recent estimates for eventual hospital discharge are up to 11% out of hospital and 25% in hospital if treated promptly by EMS. He has a high chance of survival given that he is young and presumably in good health prior. > > However, up to 40% of survivors of cardiac arrest have long terms medical problems. Again, he is at low risk because he did not have known preexisting conditions, and he was resuscitated quickly. However, recovery of brain function depends not only on how quickly CPR was started but in how efficient it was. He was treated quickly and presumably by a well-trained team, meaning that he probably received early effective CPR which may have included rescue breathing as the team had more than one member and probably has access to a bag and mask device (for solo resuscitation, rescue breathing is no longer recommended since the emphasis is on chest compressions). > > Finally, he is reported to have lung problems. This could be related to damage from the hit, or even from CPR (effective CPR can break ribs if done correctly). > > Right now, he is likely being sedated and monitored. He may be on a ventilator, allowing his lungs some time to heal. > > In terms of recovery, neurological recovery is a wait and see proposition. Early treatment means less time of brain hypoxia and less brain injury but we don’t know if he has underlying damage from years of football. His heart will need to be checked for evidence of any blockages and he will most likely end up with an implanted defibrillator in case this happens again. > > Sorry, this is so long. Again, just my opinion based on the video and reports I have seen. > > tl:dr [https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/circep.111.962712](https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/circep.111.962712) He will certainly be on the upper end of those statistics especially if it was commotio cordis. The stats are so low because for almost all people your heart doesn’t stop because of some freak blow to the chest. It’s because there is something very wrong with your body and probably has been wrong for a long time. CPR and defibs can’t help. For Hamlin it’s probably the best circumstances for recovery anyone could hope for. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2023, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damar-hamlin-collapses-on-field-now-cleared-to-play-football/977560/130 "2023-01-04T17:09:38Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > > [@Velocity](#): > > > > That has me wondering, what’s the appropriate CPR to do if someone **already** has broken ribs and chest injuries? Not necessarily in Hamlin’s case, but in general > > IANAD, but “chest trauma” is probably a lot easier to treat than “death”. > > I.e., reestablishing a heartbeat probably trumps not inflicting further injury. Almost the exact word for word answer I got when I first trained in CPR many years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2023, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damar-hamlin-collapses-on-field-now-cleared-to-play-football/977560/131 "2023-01-04T17:18:34Z")
Here’s a former NHL player talking about what it was like when his heart stopped after taking a puck in the chest. > **[Chris Pronger, a Hockey Hall of Fame defenseman, recalls his 'scary' cardiac...](https://www.stltoday.com/sports/hockey/professional/chris-pronger-recalls-his-scary-cardiac-event-with-the-blues/article_8df5aceb-96fb-52d3-9ffd-17faa772152d.html#tracking-source=mp-sports)** > > Pronger was 23 years old and competing with the St. Louis Blues in the Western Conference semifinals of the Stanley Cup Playoffs in 1998 when he was struck on the left side of his chest by a slap shot. Pronger managed to stand up following the impact... ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2023, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damar-hamlin-collapses-on-field-now-cleared-to-play-football/977560/132 "2023-01-04T17:20:38Z")
I think you were having a stress test and the reason you got the medication is because for some reason, they didn’t want you to raise your heart rate by exercise. ( I always end up on the treadmill) I’m guessing that most professional athletes would have had one at some point - it doesn’t cost much, isn’t terribly dangerous and a team is not going to want to give a contract to someone with cardiac issues. ---
**Author:** ![abcdefghij](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/43a26b/32.png) [@abcdefghij](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/abcdefghij)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2023, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damar-hamlin-collapses-on-field-now-cleared-to-play-football/977560/133 "2023-01-04T17:23:56Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Did the team doctors use a defibrillator on the field? > > I’ve only seen CPR mentioned in reports. I don’t believe CPR alone ever restores a normal rhythm. CPR’s purpose is to maintain some blood flow to the brain until a defibrillator can be applied. > [@aceplace57](#): > > CPR can be really rough. Broken ribs are common. But it’s better than dying. The ribs broken during my CPR were certainly painful, but a big improvement on death. The only problem with the broken ribs was that they kept asking if I still had chest pain in the cath lab, and finally, in confusion, said “oh, you don’t know…” ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2023, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damar-hamlin-collapses-on-field-now-cleared-to-play-football/977560/134 "2023-01-04T17:25:37Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I had a cardio work up before surgery. > They did the EKG and then repeated after giving me a shot to speed up my heart > > I hated that shot. For about 2 mins you feel totally wiped out. It’s a scary feeling. I had the the same thing only it was prophylactic rather than before a specific procedure. They put a port in my arm and shot me with gamma ray dye, waited an hour so it could good and dispersed, then took a baseline scan with two plates at 90-degrees. After that they pushed something else into the port after warning me it would probably cause palpitations and trigger anxiety but assuring me it was safe, then took a second scan. I didn’t feel a damn thing. The tech kept asking, “You feel all right?” “I feel fine. Go ahead and do your thing.” I guess they got the readings they needed because they didn’t ask for another appointment for a repeat. For what it’s worth, edible cannabis doesn’t do much for me either, at least in the doses I’ve tried. > [@doreen](#): > > I think you were having a stress test and the reason you got the medication is because for some reason, they didn’t want you to raise your heart rate by exercise. ( I always end up on the treadmill) Yeah, with my arthritis, that was a no-go for me. ---
**Author:** ![abcdefghij](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/43a26b/32.png) [@abcdefghij](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/abcdefghij)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2023, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damar-hamlin-collapses-on-field-now-cleared-to-play-football/977560/135 "2023-01-04T17:29:36Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > > [@abcdefghij](#): > > > > They said that frequently, and in this case, there’s just nothing to see before everything goes south. > > That’s frightening. Agreed, although I’ll point out that we were all in cardiac rehab for a reason. I don’t think spontaneous fibrillation is something most people should lose sleep over. For all I know, his rhythm _always_ looked like something was imminent and so there was no indication that it was going to get even worse in this particular instant. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2023, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damar-hamlin-collapses-on-field-now-cleared-to-play-football/977560/136 "2023-01-04T17:29:56Z")
I said shot. But I think now 🤔 they did start an IV. They wanted it available in case anything went wrong. The heart monitor at home was interesting. I had to keep a time log of stuff I did. Sweeping the floor, carrying out trash, restroom etc. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2023, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damar-hamlin-collapses-on-field-now-cleared-to-play-football/977560/137 "2023-01-04T17:46:52Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > And would his medical be covered by workmen’s comp? I work for the agency that does worker’s compensation for my state. Our NFL team, the Seattle Seahawks, are self-insured so are not part of our state’s worker’s comp group. I used to work in an office that was in walking distance of their stadium after all. I learned about the Seahawks in conversation with some of my colleagues there. It’s not anything confidential, there is even a news article talking about this: [https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/former-players-say-seahawks-foil-injury-claims-filed-with-state/281-556914584](https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/former-players-say-seahawks-foil-injury-claims-filed-with-state/281-556914584) The funny thing is, some of the things described in that article as far as surveillance goes are things that some of my coworkers do to investigate workers compensation fraud. They’re just doing all the stuff on their own. So to answer the question, yes, there is workers compensation for players, but I believe all of the teams are self-insured in that regard and don’t use the same workers compensation that most of us would if we were injured at work. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2023, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damar-hamlin-collapses-on-field-now-cleared-to-play-football/977560/138 "2023-01-04T18:14:39Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > Here’s a former NHL player talking about what it was like when his heart stopped after taking a puck in the chest. > > [Chris Pronger recalls his 'scary' cardiac event with the Blues](https://www.stltoday.com/sports/hockey/professional/chris-pronger-recalls-his-scary-cardiac-event-with-the-blues/article_8df5aceb-96fb-52d3-9ffd-17faa772152d.html#tracking-source=mp-sports) I’d actually travelled to Detroit to watch this game with friends I’d made online. It was really scary. I saw his lips turn blue, and I knew it was serious. Thankfully, he had to no long term damage. He regained consciousness on the ice and didn’t need to be defibrilated. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2023, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damar-hamlin-collapses-on-field-now-cleared-to-play-football/977560/139 "2023-01-04T18:19:02Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > So to answer the question, yes, there is workers compensation for players, but I believe all of the teams are self-insured in that regard and don’t use the same workers compensation that most of us would if we were injured at work. Maybe - in my state, there are two different agencies , one that is actually an insurance carrier run by the state and another that has jurisdiction over all worker’s comp claims, whether the employer is self-insured, has a policy through a private insurance company or has a policy through the state fund and another one that administers the process and decides disputed cases. Not nearly everyone is covered by the state insurance carrier - I wouldn’t be surprised if most people are covered either by private insurance companies or self-insured employers. ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2023, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damar-hamlin-collapses-on-field-now-cleared-to-play-football/977560/140 "2023-01-04T18:27:52Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Almost the exact word for word answer I got when I first trained in CPR many years ago. Or as our instructor said, “If there’s no pulse, you’re dealing with a corpse. Nothing you can do will make things worse.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damar-hamlin-collapses-on-field-now-cleared-to-play-football/977560.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damar-hamlin-collapses-on-field-now-cleared-to-play-football/977560.md?page=8)