# Damien? Is that you? Or: would you like a side of thorazine with that chocolate milk? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 30, 2005, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damien-is-that-you-or-would-you-like-a-side-of-thorazine-with-that-chocolate-milk/328565 "2005-10-30T05:55:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2005, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damien-is-that-you-or-would-you-like-a-side-of-thorazine-with-that-chocolate-milk/328565/21 "2005-10-30T16:56:55Z")
I would’ve taken a bat to the XBox. ---
**Author:** ![Nilor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a4c791/32.png) [@Nilor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nilor)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2005, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damien-is-that-you-or-would-you-like-a-side-of-thorazine-with-that-chocolate-milk/328565/22 "2005-10-30T20:15:31Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > This is so wrong on so many levels, I don’t know where to start. > > 1. kid should not be playing this game. Not at age 9. Yeah, so you got to–so what. There is a reason those games are marked with categories like movies–mom was dead wrong to buy it for him, period. I brought up that I got to play violent games in response to someone else implying that violent games encourage that type of behavior. I do not believe they do, or if they do then it is to such a minor degree as to be completely offset by the actions of the parents. Also, care to elaborate on why you think a 9 year old shouldn’t be playing that type of game? > [@](#): > > 1. I don’t understand --he was playing this game with other people online? (the things I do not know)–not at age 9, he’s not. And not that type of game. Why not? As long as he’s intelligent enough to not give out personal information, what does it matter? > [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > 1. Next time the kid comes home from school, his X-box is gone. I agree with this, conditionally. The kid needs to be there when the x-box is taken away. His offense is not disrespecting his mother, but challenging her authority. In order to address that issue, IMHO, you need to show that _you_ have the authority, not the child. Taking his x-box away while he’s at school does not demonstrate that you have power in the house, only that you can do things while he’s not around. Taking the x-box away while he’s there with you shows that he is no longer in control of the house. ---
**Author:** ![Giant\_Spongess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/94ad74/32.png) [@Giant\_Spongess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giant_Spongess)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2005, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damien-is-that-you-or-would-you-like-a-side-of-thorazine-with-that-chocolate-milk/328565/23 "2005-10-30T21:59:45Z")
It always surprises me when people don’t say “please” and “thank you” to their kids, and don’t teach them to do the same. Children respond just as well to politeness as anyone else, in my experience. ---
**Author:** ![Alice\_The\_Goon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Alice\_The\_Goon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alice_The_Goon)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2005, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damien-is-that-you-or-would-you-like-a-side-of-thorazine-with-that-chocolate-milk/328565/24 "2005-10-30T23:08:52Z")
> [@Giant\_Spongess](#): > > It always surprises me when people don’t say “please” and “thank you” to their kids, and don’t teach them to do the same. Children respond just as well to politeness as anyone else, in my experience. Bwahahahahaha! Your issue with this whole thing is that his mother didn’t say “please”…??? At this point, he needs some major outside help, I think, not politeness. And let’s face it, if the mother was the type to take away the Xbox or discipline him for acting like this, he wouldn’t be acting like this in the first place. And FTR, I allow my 14- and 12-year old boys to play any kind of games they want, and they are the most kind, polite, and loving boys I’ve ever known. If parents aren’t going to be involved in their kids’ lives, and some aren’t, then I can see putting limits on what they play. But if you’re involved with them, communicating with them, and teaching them right from wrong, a game isn’t going to mess them up, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2005, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damien-is-that-you-or-would-you-like-a-side-of-thorazine-with-that-chocolate-milk/328565/25 "2005-10-30T23:44:17Z")
> [@Nilor](#): > > I brought up that I got to play violent games in response to someone else implying that violent games encourage that type of behavior. I do not believe they do, or if they do then it is to such a minor degree as to be completely offset by the actions of the parents. I wasn’t actually directing that at you, personally. I was stating my opinion, and pre-empting an argument by saying “yeah, I heard your side and don’t agree.” Sorry if it was too in-your-face. As a parent, I am called to make many, many decisions daily as to what my kids may and may not watch, experience, participate in. This doesn’t change all that much upon adolescence. By then, the basic morals and teachings should have been laid down long since–but I still nix violent games like that in my home. Lord knows there is no shortage of them. Does my 13 year old son play them at friend’s houses? Probably–that is outside of my control. But I do not want such violent images in my home–and won’t permit them, ever. YMMV. > [@](#): > > Also, care to elaborate on why you think a 9 year old shouldn’t be playing that type of game? IMO, 9 is way too young for that type of game. Kids lack perspective and they also tend to blur fantasy and reality. I don’t think 9 year olds should be a R rated films, either–no matter how much they whine and rail against the horrible fates that made me their mother. They’re lucky if they get to see PG-13 at that age. Again, YMMV. > [@](#): > > Why not? As long as he’s intelligent enough to not give out personal information, what does it matter? First, there is my ignorance that you could play games that way. I am not exactly the expert on games here–I did get to level 6 on Yoshi’s Story, back in my prime! And I play a mean BurgerTime (atari–I think, looong ago). 🙂 No way are ANY of my kids going online to play games with strangers-ever. This particular 9 year old is not intelligent enough to (mature is a better word–let’s say he lacks judgement) speak in civil tones to his mother–you think he is OK to be let loose on the Web? He has not demonstrated to my satisfaction the ability to restrain himself and police himself well enough to earn my trust and allow him the privilege of online activities. > [@](#): > > His offense is not disrespecting his mother, but challenging her authority. They are one and the same. No kid speaks to me in that way; no kid treats me that way. Respect is a two way process–but firm limits must also be established. I don’t know from listening to that disturbing video if the mom has tried to be her kid’s friend, or if this is her lame stab at parenting that she does when the mood strikes her. Either way is damaging to a child. If he respected her, he would not challenge her authority in such a manner. My kids and I disagree alot and sometimes the interchange gets heated, but I have never heard anything like that from their mouths, thank Og. I think we are on the same page here, for the most part. I don’t consider video games evil or bad influences–I DO think that all of us are exposed to too much violence in various media. I also think that kids who don’t have trouble with processing the violence and acting civil are also _parented_ . It makes a difference. ---
**Author:** ![Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f08c70/32.png) [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crowbar_of_Irony_3)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damien-is-that-you-or-would-you-like-a-side-of-thorazine-with-that-chocolate-milk/328565/26 "2005-10-31T00:51:18Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > Near as I could make out, it started with mom telling him to turn the sound down or off. He countered that she’d told him to keep the sound off only when she was in bed, and she wasn’t. A lot of whining about “You always mess me up!” (meaning, she interfered with his playing of the game), then I lost the thread of the argument for a while. > > Caught up again when he rejected her offering of Mountain Dew. I say “offering” instead of “offer” because it sounded as if she’d brought it right to him, and I can just see her bowing as she set it down and crawling away backwards. > > That’s the point at which he went off the rails. “That’s bullshit! You said I could have anything I want to drink!” And so forth. I’m not sure if a request to turn the volume or the game off was tied into this, or if it was strictly about the chocolate milk, but it was seriously scary. It seems to me there was a ‘cut’ somewhere in the video (not sure about that, just an instinct…)…and why is there a recording? Does that game has a replay feature? Then by Og’s Holy Hammer, that’s one spoilt brat. When I am engrossed in my game, whether conquering China, killing Orcs or slaying demons, and I need a drink or a bite, I pause the game, thank you very much. If I can’t pause, hey, I just let myself be killed and stay out of the game for a while…what’s the deal!! e a volcano over. So what to do if he needs to go to the toilet? Ask mum to bring the chamber pot? Do it on the spot? Or…_shock_ is he wearing diapers? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damien-is-that-you-or-would-you-like-a-side-of-thorazine-with-that-chocolate-milk/328565/27 "2005-10-31T01:30:47Z")
Okay, for those who don’t understand exactly what’s going on here, let me try to explain. The video was not recorded by the kid, it was recorded by one of the other people playing the game with him. The soldier who was in view (and lipsynching the argument) was the kid’s character. What happened was that the kid forgot his headphones/microphone were on. In the game in the video, the characters move their mouths with what people say over the headphones. So it really was lipsynching and didn’t just look like it. I don’t know if the kid has enough of a possibility of embarrasment to feel humiliated when he realized that his ranting tantrum just went out to everyone on his server, but I can hope. ---
**Author:** ![Nilor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a4c791/32.png) [@Nilor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nilor)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damien-is-that-you-or-would-you-like-a-side-of-thorazine-with-that-chocolate-milk/328565/28 "2005-10-31T03:00:19Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > I wasn’t actually directing that at you, personally. I was stating my opinion, and pre-empting an argument by saying “yeah, I heard your side and don’t agree.” Sorry if it was too in-your-face. YMMV. It sounded like you were saying: “It is bad for all children, mine or someone else’s, to see violence at age 9”. So I had to ask if you had any basis for that opinion. I never meant to imply that you were not entitled to, or needed a basis for, that opinion when talking about your own children. > [@](#): > > IMO, 9 is way too young for that type of game. Kids lack perspective and they also tend to blur fantasy and reality. I don’t think 9 year olds should be an R rated films, either–no matter how much they whine and rail against the horrible fates that made me their mother. They’re lucky if they get to see PG-13 at that age. > Again, YMMV. I agree with you. Your children, your problem…just don’t try to enact laws that say **no** child under age (whatever) can see an R-rated movie, even if their parents want them to. > [@](#): > > This particular 9 year old is not intelligent enough to (mature is a better word–let’s say he lacks judgement) speak in civil tones to his mother–you think he is OK to be let loose on the Web? He has not demonstrated to my satisfaction the ability to restrain himself and police himself well enough to earn my trust and allow him the privilege of online activities. I think this is the source of our misunderstanding I will not dispute whether or not you have the right to limit what your children see or do. I do not agree that whether or not you feel a child has demonstrated enough responsibility to access the internet should be the standard the rest of us live by. If you mean “if he were my child…etc”, then you and I agree. > [@](#): > > They are one and the same. No kid speaks to me in that way; no kid treats me that way. Respect is a two way process–but firm limits must also be established. I don’t know from listening to that disturbing video if the mom has tried to be her kid’s friend, or if this is her lame stab at parenting that she does when the mood strikes her. Either way is damaging to a child. If he respected her, he would not challenge her authority in such a manner. My kids and I disagree alot and sometimes the interchange gets heated, but I have never heard anything like that from their mouths, thank Og. I’ll elaborate a bit on the distinction I was proposing. Respect and respect for authority are not the same. There are some people whom I respect, but would not submit to any rules they made. They, perhaps, earned my respect through reasoned discourse, or just from knowing me for a while. There are, also, some people who I _hate_, but whose authority I will respect. Usually, this happens when they have some kind of power over me. I agree with you; this particular kid seems to lack both respect for his mother and respect for his mother’s authority. My earlier statement was made a bit too quickly. > [@](#): > > I think we are on the same page here, for the most part. I don’t consider video games evil or bad influences–I DO think that all of us are exposed to too much violence in various media. I also think that kids who don’t have trouble with processing the violence and acting civil are also _parented_ . I think we’re mostly on the same page too. I am not going to give an opinion about whether or not we are exposed to too much violence, nor about what should be done about it. I agree with you that the kid is lacking rules, and that he _needs_ those rules and boundaries. I also agree that he probably won’t get them. ---
**Author:** ![interface2x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@interface2x](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/interface2x)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damien-is-that-you-or-would-you-like-a-side-of-thorazine-with-that-chocolate-milk/328565/29 "2005-10-31T04:21:57Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > IMO, 9 is way too young for that type of game. Kids lack perspective and they also tend to blur fantasy and reality. I don’t think 9 year olds should be a R rated films, either–no matter how much they whine and rail against the horrible fates that made me their mother. They’re lucky if they get to see PG-13 at that age. > > Again, YMMV. Heh … I remember my mom taking me to see “Aliens” for my 8th birthday. I don’t think it’s had much of a negative impact on my life 19 years later. I probably woulda killed those people anyway. 😉 Although the story about the movie is true ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damien-is-that-you-or-would-you-like-a-side-of-thorazine-with-that-chocolate-milk/328565/30 "2005-10-31T04:25:01Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > did anyone else hear her start to count down? That was the last straw in this house–when I start counting–all bets are off. My kids only got to three and whammo! Instant consequences. You know, I could be wrong (you can’t hear her as clearly as you can him), but it occured to me that it’s possible that she was counting to **herself**. Like trying to control her own temper. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damien-is-that-you-or-would-you-like-a-side-of-thorazine-with-that-chocolate-milk/328565/31 "2005-10-31T04:30:55Z")
link doesn’t work for me. could someone email me the video? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damien-is-that-you-or-would-you-like-a-side-of-thorazine-with-that-chocolate-milk/328565/32 "2005-10-31T04:35:08Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > link doesn’t work for me. could someone email me the video? I used their “email link” function to email you the video. If necessary perhaps I can download the video and zip it, then send it via gmail. I don’t think any copywrite issues are involved. But if they are, someone please tell me. ---
**Author:** ![Nilor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a4c791/32.png) [@Nilor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nilor)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damien-is-that-you-or-would-you-like-a-side-of-thorazine-with-that-chocolate-milk/328565/33 "2005-10-31T04:35:11Z")
> [@interface2x](#): > > Heh … I remember my mom taking me to see “Aliens” for my 8th birthday. I don’t think it’s had much of a negative impact on my life 19 years later. In that vein my parents took me to see Robocop when I was 3-5 (Not quite sure if they took me when it opened in the theaters or if it was a re-run at an old one). I feel mostly the same way as you about it…those people had it coming. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damien-is-that-you-or-would-you-like-a-side-of-thorazine-with-that-chocolate-milk/328565/34 "2005-10-31T05:00:50Z")
I’m not jumping into the debate but… The very last sad “That’s Bullshit” was the funniest thing. OH, and the fact that a nine year old is drinking Mountain Dew, a mixture of sugar, caffine and horse piss, is the reason he is so wired up. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damien-is-that-you-or-would-you-like-a-side-of-thorazine-with-that-chocolate-milk/328565/35 "2005-10-31T05:16:28Z")
Yeah, but he **rejected** the Mountain Dew in favor of chocolate milk. “I asked for Mountain Dew; now I want chocolate milk! BRING ME SOME MOTHERFUCKING CHOCOLATE MILK!” ---
**Author:** ![Regallag\_The\_Axe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/regallag_the_axe/32/445_2.png) [@Regallag\_The\_Axe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Regallag_The_Axe)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damien-is-that-you-or-would-you-like-a-side-of-thorazine-with-that-chocolate-milk/328565/36 "2005-10-31T05:36:40Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > You know, I could be wrong (you can’t hear her as clearly as you can him), but it occured to me that it’s possible that she was counting to **herself**. Like trying to control her own temper. :dubious: Heh. Reminds me of a story my mom loves telling. She got mad at my brother and I and started counting to ten. I thought that she was starting a gome of Hide and seek, so I ran and hid somewhere. And (if I had a wife and son) saw this happening in my house I would promptly find a sledge hammer to remove the Xbox with. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damien-is-that-you-or-would-you-like-a-side-of-thorazine-with-that-chocolate-milk/328565/37 "2005-10-31T06:45:28Z")
Holy SHIT, if I ever talked to my mom like that, my ass would have been in a sling. Okay, it starts out, normal kid whining, “But I’m playing!!!” Then some kind of screaming in the background, then just…_shudder_ Did he call her a bitch at one point? Jesus Christ! And yeah, that ain’t a game for a nine-year-old. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damien-is-that-you-or-would-you-like-a-side-of-thorazine-with-that-chocolate-milk/328565/38 "2005-10-31T06:57:47Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Did he call her a bitch at one point? Yep. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damien-is-that-you-or-would-you-like-a-side-of-thorazine-with-that-chocolate-milk/328565/39 "2005-10-31T13:38:45Z")
> [@Nilor](#): > > It sounded like you were saying: “It is bad for all children, mine or someone else’s, to see violence at age 9”. So I had to ask if you had any basis for that opinion. I never meant to imply that you were not entitled to, or needed a basis for, that opinion when talking about your own children. I do think that. But I didn’t say that. 🙂 [QUI agree with you. Your children, your problem…just don’t try to enact laws that say **no** child under age (whatever) can see an R-rated movie, even if their parents want them to. [/QUOTE] Ok- I’ll play along. I, Queen Eleanor, by the power vested in me by, well, God, actually, do henceforth decree that NO parent shall ever be able to make independent decisions about entertainment for their dependent offspring, _ever_. I’m joking. Where did this “don’t try to enact laws” bit come from? This is a personal decision for parents–although I will say that I would rather see violence toned down and us not be so prudish (as a film going public). > [@](#): > > I do not agree that whether or not you feel a child has demonstrated enough responsibility to access the internet should be the standard the rest of us live by. If you mean “if he were my child…etc”, then you and I agree. All I ever meant was that if he were my child. I don’t set standards for others–but I will not think too highly of other’s standards, if they don’t meet mine… 😉 I didn’t watch the video to the end–does the mom ever gain control? I wonder about her counting to keep her temper. Been there, done that… Love the story about hide and seek! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damien-is-that-you-or-would-you-like-a-side-of-thorazine-with-that-chocolate-milk/328565/40 "2005-10-31T15:10:51Z")
> [@Nilor](#): > > I agree with this, conditionally. The kid needs to be there when the x-box is taken away. His offense is not disrespecting his mother, but challenging her authority. In order to address that issue, IMHO, you need to show that _you_ have the authority, not the child. Taking his x-box away while he’s at school does not demonstrate that you have power in the house, only that you can do things while he’s not around. Taking the x-box away while he’s there with you shows that he is no longer in control of the house. While that’s nice in theory, in practice, this is a kid out of control, and I would not be surprised if he became violent when the X-box is removed. I think of it sort of like how you train a dominant dog: instead of engaging in battles of will with teh dog, you just refuse to give the dog anything (a pat on the head, a bowl of food, a walk) until the dog does a trick for you. You avoid confrontation taht way, and keep yourself safe. Same thing with this kid. For the mom’s safety, I think it’d be wise to have the X-Box already gone when the kid gets home, and make it clear that future punishments will happen while the kid is at school if necessary. This removes the child’s ability to resist the punishment through violence. Daniel [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damien-is-that-you-or-would-you-like-a-side-of-thorazine-with-that-chocolate-milk/328565.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damien-is-that-you-or-would-you-like-a-side-of-thorazine-with-that-chocolate-milk/328565.md?page=3)