# Dammit! Essential Hard Rock and Heavy Metal redux **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 9, 2011, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dammit-essential-hard-rock-and-heavy-metal-redux/605571 "2011-12-09T00:58:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/it_s_not_rocket_surgery/32/312_2.png) [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/It_s_Not_Rocket_Surgery)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dammit-essential-hard-rock-and-heavy-metal-redux/605571/21 "2011-12-09T16:55:34Z")
Your metal tastes are virtually parallel to mine. I don’t disagree with anything you wrote. That said, one of the bands you appear to have forgotten about is Anthrax. They were reliably good with a few great tracks (like most of “Among The Living”). Testament and Sacred Reich did some good stuff. M.O.D. was good, if a bit silly. I played King Diamond as a joke for my friend, but he liked it! So I gave them another listen, and found that musically, they were really good once you got past the ludicrous vocal tricks. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dammit-essential-hard-rock-and-heavy-metal-redux/605571/22 "2011-12-09T17:04:47Z")
> [@mr.jp](#): > > That still gives us more heavy numbers than Queen. more good albums than Pantera, and more albums than Guns N Roses. Eh? Pantera had four good albums. Tool had two. Guns and Roses had four even if you don’t count _The Spaghetti Incident?_ (I wouldn’t) and _Lies_ (I would) as albums. It’ll take me a while to list all of Queen’s heavy stuff, but if you haven’t heard Ogre Battle you owe it to yourself to give it a listen. > [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](#): > > Your metal tastes are virtually parallel to mine. I don’t disagree with anything you wrote. > > That said, one of the bands you appear to have forgotten about is Anthrax. They were reliably good with a few great tracks (like most of “Among The Living”). > > Testament and Sacred Reich did some good stuff. > M.O.D. was good, if a bit silly. > I played King Diamond as a joke for my friend, but he liked it! So I gave them another listen, and found that musically, they were really good once you got past the ludicrous vocal tricks. I only like about one song per Anthrax album. That doesn’t really matter today when everything is an MP3 but it annoyed the hell out of me back in the day. I very nearly included Mercyful Fate in my list, and I like them a lot better than King Diamond’s solo stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dammit-essential-hard-rock-and-heavy-metal-redux/605571/23 "2011-12-09T17:56:31Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Queensryche - the first band I liked because I like them, and not because everyone around me was listening to them. I was hooked the first time I heard _Take Hold of the Flame_ (on Headbanger’s Ball, I think). Geoff Tate has the best voice in music. Maybe ever. Bring back Chris DeGarmo! > > Faith No More - criminally overlooked. Paved the way for nu-metal (but I forgive them). Broadened the scope of hard rock more than anyone. > > Megadeth - I respect that Dave Mustaine turned himself into a decent singer despite having no vocal talent at all. Weirdly, I liked them a lot more once Mustaine stopped trying to play faster than everyone. > > Metallica - could have been the biggest band in history with a proper singer. Still pretty damn good. > > Motorhead - everyone loves Lemmy. You should too. Every thrash band sounds like it’s trying to replicate Motorhead, which is weird because Motorhead don’t sound like anyone. > > Led Zeppelin - could have been the biggest band in history if they hadn’t packed it in after John Bonham died. Classy move, though. > > Black Sabbath - couldn’t have 90% of the bands on my list without them. > > Iron Maiden - the archetype of metal. Didn’t do anything new, but did everything well. > > Judas Priest - to be honest, I don’t like most of their music. However, they made it okay to be heavy. > > Pantera - metal and I kind of parted company after Pantera. I don’t like Lamb of God or virtually any other band with a guttural vocalist. I did like Pantera because they managed to incorporate melody with all the heaviness. > > Paradise Lost - pretty much just for the riff from Embers Fire. > > Guns N’ Roses - yeah, I want them to get back together too. Unlike most, I liked the Use Your Illusion records better than the first one. > > Queen - I’ll say it: Freddie Mercury is kind of overrated. Awesome frontman, not an awesome singer. Brian May is not overrated. > > Dream Theater - did all the things I wished Queensryche would do. Did all the things I would probably do if I had a band. I love that. While I at least like every band on there, and certainly love a few, one of my pet peeves about theses kinds of lists is that they tend to be very heavy on the older bands and lacking a lot in the more modern sounds. But at the same time, you can’t get too modern or you run the risk of them not really being “essential” at some point in the future. So here, only a couple of bands on this list have released anything that is on par with their best work in the the last decade or so. I also think that while you may not be a fan of unclean vocals, they really are important in a lot of modern metal, and while the list covers a lot of stuff, particularly the originators of heavy metal, thrash, power metal, and a bit of prog, there’s nothing that covers anything in the black metal or death metal sub-genres, and the whole list is from the UK or US. Metal is also extremely popular through the rest of europe and other parts of the world, so getting those sounds in would make the list more well rounded. So, here’s a few thoughts: Opeth - Would help fill out in the heavier side as well as being Swedish and still very active. You’d probably want to look at a more straight forward Death Metal band too, but I would have a hard time picking the most representative. Nightwish or maybe Therion - More European bands and both cover a lot of ground in modern power metal sounds. Iced Earth - American, but pretty much the natural progression of bands like Iron Maiden and Judas Priest. Finally, you’d probably want some kind of Black Metal representative, but that’s also difficult to pick a single essential band for. Not really complete sure who you’d drop to get some of them on there, but it depends on whether you’re going for most influential or for a good coverage of the genres. ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dammit-essential-hard-rock-and-heavy-metal-redux/605571/24 "2011-12-09T18:13:29Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Eh? Pantera had four good albums. Tool had two. Guns and Roses had four even if you don’t count _The Spaghetti Incident?_ (I wouldn’t) and _Lies_ (I would) as albums. > > It’ll take me a while to list all of Queen’s heavy stuff, but if you haven’t heard Ogre Battle you owe it to yourself to give it a listen. Ok, I personally don’t like Pantera so much, apart from Vulgar. I guess it’s too stressful for me. Hmm, yeah I forgot about Chinese Democracy and Lies. 10.000 days is a good album too. I actually have all Queen albums except Queen II, The Miracle and Hot Stuff, and I still stand by that they have fewer heavy / hard rock tracks in total than Tool. ---
**Author:** ![Enlightening\_Meditation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecc23a/32.png) [@Enlightening\_Meditation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enlightening_Meditation)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dammit-essential-hard-rock-and-heavy-metal-redux/605571/25 "2011-12-09T19:08:07Z")
Blue Cheer is essential hard rock / metal. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dammit-essential-hard-rock-and-heavy-metal-redux/605571/26 "2011-12-09T21:20:10Z")
Ozzy w/ Randy Rhoads. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dammit-essential-hard-rock-and-heavy-metal-redux/605571/27 "2011-12-09T21:24:56Z")
What Blue Cheer should I try? The only song I know is Summertime Blues. I kind of lump Ozzy/Randy and Dio in under Sabbath. Same thing with Rainbow/Trapeze/Whitesnake and Deep Purple. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dammit-essential-hard-rock-and-heavy-metal-redux/605571/28 "2011-12-09T21:36:17Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I kind of lump Ozzy/Randy and Dio in under Sabbath. Blasphemy! I would consider them separately: **Black Sabbath:** If I had to pick one band as my favorite, it would be Black Sabbath. Especially their early stuff. The credit can’t go to one person in the band; they were a true unit. **Ozzy w/ Randy Rhoads:** First of all, the music produced by these guys was very much different than Black Sabbath - it’s not heavy, doom-n-gloom metal. It’s very melodic and high energy. And unlike Black Sabbath, most of the credit _ **can** _ go to just one person. Hint: it’s not Ozzy. \*\*Dio: \*\*He was only in Black Sabbath for a short time. Oh, and I really didn’t care for his vocals. Sounds very over-rehearsed. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dammit-essential-hard-rock-and-heavy-metal-redux/605571/29 "2011-12-09T21:50:44Z")
I don’t know if it’s Randy, either. The quality of Ozzy’s records didn’t exactly nosedive with Jake E. Lee and Zakk Wylde. Dio was in Sabbath long enough to release two (excellent) studio albums and two live ones. ---
**Author:** ![AndyPolley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@AndyPolley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AndyPolley)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dammit-essential-hard-rock-and-heavy-metal-redux/605571/30 "2011-12-09T22:03:01Z")
If you liked **Queensryche** & **Dream Theater** , then\*\* Fates Warning\*\* should be checked out. Anything with Ray Alder on vocals is worth a listen. Maybe not ‘essential’ as per your list, but they are an excellent overlooked gem of a metal band. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dammit-essential-hard-rock-and-heavy-metal-redux/605571/31 "2011-12-12T04:10:14Z")
I’ve been trying to get into Fates Warning and Symphony-X because other QR fans are always recommending them but I haven’t heard any songs I like yet. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dammit-essential-hard-rock-and-heavy-metal-redux/605571/32 "2011-12-12T15:44:40Z")
Metallica’s problem is the singer? Really? Can you explain this? I’m not hating on you (well kinda cuz I love Met) but of all the problems people mention when talking about the band the quality of Hetfield’s singing is normally not what’s mentioned ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dammit-essential-hard-rock-and-heavy-metal-redux/605571/33 "2011-12-12T15:47:38Z")
I know, but Hetfield is the first to say he’s not a very good singer. That didn’t matter for the first four records, because the focus was on the guitars. It’s held them back since they slowed down a bit, though. Picture Iron Maiden if Paul Dianno was still the singer. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dammit-essential-hard-rock-and-heavy-metal-redux/605571.md?page=1)