# Dammit. No baby. DAMMIT. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 16, 2010, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dammit-no-baby-dammit/532685 "2010-03-16T19:34:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dammit-no-baby-dammit/532685/61 "2010-03-18T16:57:50Z")
> [@lindsaybluth](#): > > Wow. Blatant ignorance I see. [Tons](http://www.webmd.com/infertility-and-reproduction/news/20030701/dad-age-down-syndrome) of sources cite older sperm as less then ideal. Here, I’ll help your feeble mind out: google “age of father and birth defects” “age of father and autism” “age of father and down’s syndrome”. [moderator warning] Personal insults are not allowed in MPSIMS. Attack the argument, not the individual. [/warning] ---
**Author:** ![ENugent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4af34b/32.png) [@ENugent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ENugent)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dammit-no-baby-dammit/532685/62 "2010-03-18T18:22:33Z")
> [@Max\_Torque](#): > > Well, this thread did not go at all the way I imagined. And here I thought I was sharing a story of hope, when what I was actually doing was harming others. But I guess if you want to hear the darker side of the story, here it is: > > [most of story snipped] > > **Oni no Maggie** , I am truly sorry that this has happened to you. A lot of us have been in the same place, and it sucks. I just wanted you to know that, even though the world is shit right now, you _will_ come out of it. And sometimes, miracles do happen. > > End note: We are still waiting for our Chinese daughter, three and a half years later, thanks to (very likely deliberate) slow-downs in the process. Having a biokid show up didn’t make us give up on our adopted child, even though it has meant going through multiple homestudy updates and refiling the paperwork with immigration three times. I’ve been asked why we haven’t given up, and my answer is, “I won’t, until I can write her a letter telling her why we’re not coming to pick her up, and I can’t do that.” **Max** , I am very, very sorry if my post caused you any additional pain. This was one of the most touching things I have ever read on the SDMB, and I really hope that your Chinese daughter comes home to you soon. For what it’s worth, I have always been happy to listen to these infertility stories with a happy ending from the actual people who lived through them - mostly because those people already knew and sympathized deeply with where we were in our own journey. The ones that sting are always the, “Oh, there was this woman at the office where I used to work who did all this infertility stuff, and when she finally gave up and adopted, she got pregnant! Maybe you should just give up now, instead of wasting your money - har har har!” It’s like telling an out-of-work friend about the guy you know who lost his job, and then he won the lottery. Great for him, but it’s not exactly a strategy to emulate. (And for what it’s worth, I definitely wasn’t thinking of your post when I posted the link in the first place.) Good luck to you. I’ve been thinking about your daughter all day. ---
**Author:** ![Jelly\_Roll](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Jelly\_Roll](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jelly_Roll)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dammit-no-baby-dammit/532685/63 "2010-03-18T19:15:00Z")
Huh, I was going to suggest you two just relax and when you least expect it… I can tell you my experience with the financial side of IVF. My husband and I saved what we could and then put the rest ($10,000) on a credit card that specializes in healthcare related expenses. We then realized we could get a home equity line of credit with a better interest rate, so we opened the line of credit and paid off the credit card. Then we paid on the line of credit a little every month and eventually paid the sucker off. Incidentally, a “start from scratch” IVF is much more expensive than an FET. I had 6 frozen embryos left over and at the clinic I used, and FET is about half the price of a full-blown IVF. As for the actual procedure, we did ICSI, which I’m sure you’ve considered. It takes all the pressure off the sperm to fertilize on their own, so any male factor issues are alleviated. As a side note, the scariest part of the entire process was thinking about the entire process. Once I started just tackling one hurdle at a time, it seemed much lest daunting. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dammit-no-baby-dammit/532685/64 "2010-03-18T20:18:55Z")
> [@ENugent](#): > > **Max** , I am very, very sorry if my post caused you any additional pain. This was one of the most touching things I have ever read on the SDMB, and I really hope that your Chinese daughter comes home to you soon. No worries, **E** , it’s just history, everyone’s got their story. And I’ve been around long enough and read enough of your posts to know that you’re a good person who cares about others. I will add to what I’ve said earlier, though, that the wait for our Chinese daughter would have been absolutely intolerable without our little girl to keep our minds off the wait, so it’s probably not for everyone, but there are many options to consider, so keep your mind and ears open. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dammit-no-baby-dammit/532685/65 "2010-03-18T21:21:56Z")
So sorry, Maggie. My wife and I have gone through the same thing, and all I can do is tell you I know how heartbreaking it is. ---
**Author:** ![Wednesday\_Evening](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b2d939/32.png) [@Wednesday\_Evening](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wednesday_Evening)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dammit-no-baby-dammit/532685/66 "2010-03-18T21:49:12Z")
It took my husband and I nearly 4 years and 4 IVFs to conceive our son, so I know all too well how you are feeling. Have you found an infertility support group? Mine pretty much saved my sanity. I was not good at being infertile. Some of my infertile friends would say, “Oh, it’ll happen when it happens…” I, on the other hand, was depressed and angry. The infertility group helped me immensely. Oh, and I hated the whole, “Just relax” thing. How can you relax when you’re battling infertility? For the record, I was NOT relaxed when undergoing infertility treatment and I still got pregnant. Sending good vibes your way… ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dammit-no-baby-dammit/532685/67 "2010-03-19T05:13:01Z")
> [@lindsaybluth](#): > > Wow. Blatant ignorance I see. [Tons](http://www.webmd.com/infertility-and-reproduction/news/20030701/dad-age-down-syndrome) of sources cite older sperm as less then ideal. Here, I’ll help your feeble mind out: google “age of father and birth defects” “age of father and autism” “age of father and down’s syndrome”. Yet my point is that you would suggest that it’s okay if Oni no Maggie doesn’t conceive because she and her husband are too old to have healthy babies anyways. You state that your brother’s allergies, sleep apnea and skin conditions are caused by the advanced age of the parents (an over-the-hill 39 & 49). Because none of these things happen to kids born of young parents. As your proof, you state your mom didn’t smoke or drink, and the other kids are healthy. I know people whose oldest child is unhealthy, and the late-born ones are healthy. Is this proof? And this was after you argued that adoption in a family with a biological child is a bad thing. > [@](#): > > Now people are going to come in and say how much they love their adopted sibling, blah blah blah, Angelina Jolie did it, but seriously, it’s kind of a messed up thing to have a mixed family. End of hijack. ---
**Author:** ![Serenata67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/serenata67/32/10646_2.png) [@Serenata67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Serenata67)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dammit-no-baby-dammit/532685/68 "2010-03-20T01:53:21Z")
> [@Max\_Torque](#): > > [My own experience](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=387858). My wife and I are living proof that there is no faster way to get pregnant than to start the adoption process. The little Torqueling will be three next month. > > Incidentally, I don’t know if you were aware of this, but even though adoption costs money, you get big tax credits when you complete the adoption, which can result in you getting most, or all, of the money you spend back. We’re still waiting on the completion of our Chinese adoption (it used to be a one year wait, but due to slow-downs at the Chinese Center of Adoption Affairs, we’re now at 3 1/2 years and counting). Some companies even have incentives for their employees. My company provides up to $3k for employees who adopt. In addition to tax credits and such, one of the ladies at the downtown office (whom I know in passing) just adopted a sweet 20 month old girl for a song. I’m a little afraid that this’ll be me. I have PCOS and other health issues and I’m so afraid I’ll be coming back in a few years with this same thread. My husband is a champ with cheering me up each time my period comes (and I know for sure I’m not pregnant). I don’t know how I’d do it without him. ---
**Author:** ![figure9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f0a364/32.png) [@figure9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/figure9)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dammit-no-baby-dammit/532685/69 "2010-03-20T12:50:09Z")
I can’t give you any advice, but here is a hopeful story. Mom had major trouble getting pregnant. Parents decided to take in a special needs foster child. Decided to adopt him. Had 2 children before adoption was final. Later mom had a surprise baby at 45 years old. Hope things work out as well for you as they did for my parents. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dammit-no-baby-dammit/532685/70 "2010-03-20T17:55:40Z")
My wife and I had to go through one cycle of IUI and three cycles of IVF before we were able to have our baby boy. It’s a long process, often discouraging. I know how you’re feeling, and wish you the best. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dammit-no-baby-dammit/532685/71 "2010-03-21T03:07:49Z")
What a heartbreaking roller coaster :(. I did want to suggest you might look into something nobody else has suggested (at least on a quick scan of the thread): embryo donation. Sometimes, couples who have gone through IVF wind up with more embryos than they need. They use them for the number of kids they want, and the rest are… spares. Some couples have the embryos destroyed, others decide that they can give the gift of parenthood to parents who are struggling. My understanding is that it’s considerably less money for such a process, than for a from-scratch IVF attempt. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dammit-no-baby-dammit/532685/72 "2010-03-21T03:39:22Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Suggestion, **Maggie** : > > Quit spending the money. Quit worrying about it. Enjoy and cherish your love with your spouse. Do the do whenever you’re in the mood and let it go at that. > > ## If it happens, it happens. If it doesn’t, you’ve still got each other and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. This wise message is getting lost in the shuffle, so I’m going to quote it here. It must be awful to desperately long to have a child, and not have that wish fulfilled. However, it is possible to have a meaningful, wonderful life without parenting a child. Parenthood is not the ultimate reason for existence, or it shouldn’t be at any rate. It is one route to happiness (and a rather uncertain one, at that). ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dammit-no-baby-dammit/532685/73 "2010-03-21T04:25:45Z")
Being an adoptive parent, I have met many other prospective adoptive parents. I know of none who were not able to successfully adopt, most more than once. And none of use were wealthy. (Neither did any of us spontaneously become pregnant.) I know that some states have laws making private adoptions easier than others. It might be a good idea to look into what the laws are in your state now, so you’ll be prepared if you ever do decide to go that route. Plus, it would give you something else to focus on during the course of your treatments. Good luck with your procedures. If you continue, do go with whatever has the highest rate of success for your age and circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dammit-no-baby-dammit/532685/74 "2010-03-21T16:55:38Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > Being an adoptive parent, I have met many other prospective adoptive parents. I know of none who were not able to successfully adopt, most more than once. And none of use were wealthy. (Neither did any of us spontaneously become pregnant.) I know that some states have laws making private adoptions easier than others. It might be a good idea to look into what the laws are in your state now, so you’ll be prepared if you ever do decide to go that route. Plus, it would give you something else to focus on during the course of your treatments. > > Good luck with your procedures. If you continue, do go with whatever has the highest rate of success for your age and circumstances. This is true. I’ve never met anyone who really wanted to adopt that wasn’t able to eventually - although some adoptions involve compromise. For instance, as you get older you might need to be more open to a special needs kid. Its expensive, but I’ve seen people living near the poverty level scrape up $30,000 for an adoption. They took second jobs at WalMart, sold their old stuff on eBay, let their relatives know (and a lot of relatives kicked in), asked their church for sponsorship, took out loans. I suspect that there is is click that happens. One day you are interested in being a parent. The next you know you ARE a parent, you just need to find a way to bring your kid (the one that is out there somewhere and you just haven’t met yet) home. And once that happens, its pretty amazing the sacrifices people make to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dammit-no-baby-dammit/532685/75 "2010-04-08T15:09:42Z")
Welp, that one didn’t take. I had told my RE agent (also my Mom) that if we didn’t get the house we had just put a bid in on, that we were backing out of the whole market and using the $$ for something else (IVF, though I didn’t tell her that part - she wants grandkids so bad she can taste it, and I don’t want to get her hopes up.) And we got the house - and this month’s cycle didn’t take. So unless we fall out of escrow, and/or a miracle happens, I’m going to have to accept that the baby thing is just. not. happening. Had a good cry after the negative test this morning. It helped. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dammit-no-baby-dammit/532685.md?page=3)