# Damn abortion protesters **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 4, 2005, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-abortion-protesters/297649 "2005-04-04T13:06:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-abortion-protesters/297649/122 "2005-04-05T04:40:23Z")
> [@Muad'Dib](#): > > I do. But the point is that they have no right to make a decision to kill an unborn child. It is a falacy. > > Again, imagine it was 150 years ago and you were arguing with another about slavery. The other person keeps arguing about you violating his property rights by freeing his slaves. But you would argue that you were not taking away his property rights because those property rights never existed in the first place. You can never have the right to own another person just as you can never have the right to freely kill another person. There you go again with the slavery arguement! Geez! Again - it’s not your body. Deal with it. ---
**Author:** ![Muad\_Dib](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/35a633/32.png) [@Muad\_Dib](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muad_Dib)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-abortion-protesters/297649/123 "2005-04-05T04:40:29Z")
> [@treis](#): > > To me when the morality of an action is in doubt then it is immoral to force your judgement on someone else. All right. But I have no doubt that abortion is murder and I must therefore do all that I can to stop, what I believe to be, this horrific procedure ---
**Author:** ![Muad\_Dib](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/35a633/32.png) [@Muad\_Dib](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muad_Dib)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-abortion-protesters/297649/124 "2005-04-05T04:41:31Z")
> [@Jeep's Phoenix](#): > > There you go again with the slavery arguement! Geez! > > Again - it’s not your body. Deal with it. Neither is the baby the mothers body. Deal with it. ---
**Author:** ![lel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8797f3/32.png) [@lel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lel)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-abortion-protesters/297649/125 "2005-04-05T04:43:12Z")
> [@Muad'Dib](#): > > All right. But I have no doubt that abortion is murder and I must therefore do all that I can to stop, what I believe to be, this horrific procedure So are big aborted fetus photos near a food court going to stop abortion? ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-abortion-protesters/297649/126 "2005-04-05T04:43:21Z")
> [@lavenderlemon](#): > > Consenting to sex is not consenting to pregnancy. It is merely consenting to sex. Actions have consequences. One of the consequences of vaginal intercourse is the possibility of pregnancy, even moreso for young, healthy people. Do you really think that one should be able to consent to sex, but disavow the possible results? “Damn, I really wanted to have sex, but NO WAY did I sign up for this pregnancy thing. Oh well, I fucked up (literally), but I can just get rid of “it”.” That’s OK with you? Sorry, but lots of people disagree. ---
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-abortion-protesters/297649/127 "2005-04-05T04:44:21Z")
> [@Muad'Dib](#): > > Neither is the baby the mothers body. Deal with it. When come back, bring grammar book. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-abortion-protesters/297649/128 "2005-04-05T04:44:33Z")
> [@Muad'Dib](#): > > And you exercised that right to your body by having unprotected sex. Now there is another body that is dependent on you that you do not have the right to violate. Again assuming that the fetus is a human with a right to life and then justifying violating someones right from that is not a valid argument. You are begging the question by assuming your conclusion in your premise. > [@Maud'Dib](#): > > Again, imagine it was 150 years ago and you were arguing with another about slavery. The other person keeps arguing about you violating his property rights by freeing his slaves. But you would argue that you were not taking away his property rights because those property rights never existed in the first place. You can never have the right to own another person just as you can never have the right to freely kill another person. Again these are not comparible situations. There is no significant difference between a slave and a non-slave that allows you to usurp the rights of the slave. However there is a significant difference between a fetus and conscious human being. > [@Maud'Dib](#): > > But I have no doubt that abortion is murder and I must therefore do all that I can to stop, what I believe to be, this horrific procedure Sorry but that is not the case. If I assume that you eating meat is murder that does not make it morally acceptable for me to use force and violate your rights. If you wish to be taken seriously you need to develop your argument beyond saying I think its wrong and some hand waving about slavery. ---
**Author:** ![Muad\_Dib](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/35a633/32.png) [@Muad\_Dib](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muad_Dib)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-abortion-protesters/297649/129 "2005-04-05T04:45:55Z")
> [@Jeep's Phoenix](#): > > Why do you keep comparing a medical procedure to slavery? Why don’t you understand that I see the fetus as a separate and distinct creature with its own right to life. Once you understand that the parallels become obvious. I mean sheesh, I understand you guys and that is why I am not calling you all murderers, because you don not understand what you are doing even though someone is being murdered. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-abortion-protesters/297649/130 "2005-04-05T04:52:11Z")
> [@milroyj](#): > > Actions have consequences. One of the consequences of vaginal intercourse is the possibility of pregnancy, even moreso for young, healthy people. > > Do you really think that one should be able to consent to sex, but disavow the possible results? The problem is not whether I think abortion is morally justified or not but rather whether it is morally justifiable to impose my moral beliefs on someone else. It is impossible to do so without assuming that the fetus is a human life that needs protection. However assuming that is a logical fallacy becuase you are assuming the conclusion of your argument namely that the fetus is a human life that needs protection. > [@milroyj](#): > > “Damn, I really wanted to have sex, but NO WAY did I sign up for this pregnancy thing. Oh well, I fucked up (literally), but I can just get rid of “it”.” That’s OK with you? > > Sorry, but lots of people disagree. The point is however that the lots of people that disagree can sod off. For example most of us have no problem eating meat despite the large number of people that equate it with murder. > [@Maud'Dib](#): > > Why don’t you understand that I see the fetus as a separate and distinct creature with its own right to life. Once you understand that the parallels become obvious. Why don’t you understand that what you think is not necessarily what is? > [@Maud'Dib](#): > > I mean sheesh, I understand you guys and that is why I am not calling you all murderers, because you don not understand what you are doing even though someone is being murdered. :rolleyes: Do you have any understanding at all of moral or ethical arguments? ---
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-abortion-protesters/297649/131 "2005-04-05T04:53:09Z")
> [@Muad'Dib](#): > > I mean sheesh, I understand you guys and that is why I am not calling you all murderers, because you don not understand what you are doing even though someone is being murdered. If you understood that not everyone is going to become miraculously enlightened to your way of thinking, we wouldn’t still be experiencing this thread hijack. There’s a thread about abortion in Great Debates right now; I think your slavery analogy would get a better analysis over there. ---
**Author:** ![lel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8797f3/32.png) [@lel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lel)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-abortion-protesters/297649/132 "2005-04-05T04:57:20Z")
> [@Muad'Dib](#): > > Why don’t you understand that I see the fetus as a separate and distinct creature with its own right to life. Once you understand that the parallels become obvious. > > I mean sheesh, I understand you guys and that is why I am not calling you all murderers, because you don not understand what you are doing even though someone is being murdered. Those who prefer the ability to choose usually don’t see it as not understanding that murder is going on, but rather not considering such to be murder. ---
**Author:** ![Muad\_Dib](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/35a633/32.png) [@Muad\_Dib](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muad_Dib)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-abortion-protesters/297649/133 "2005-04-05T04:59:09Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Again assuming that the fetus is a human with a right to life and then justifying violating someones right from that is not a valid argument. You are begging the question by assuming your conclusion in your premise. No I did not. The right to life for the unborn and whether a person is taking a risk having unprotected sex are two seperate isues. > [@](#): > > Again these are not comparible situations. There is no significant difference between a slave and a non-slave that allows you to usurp the rights of the slave. However there is a significant difference between a fetus and conscious human being. And that is where I disagre. Once the egg and sperm fuse you have a new and distinct life form that will gain consciousness and therefor has a right to life. > [@](#): > > Sorry but that is not the case. If I assume that you eating meat is murder that does not make it morally acceptable for me to use force and violate your rights. If you wish to be taken seriously you need to develop your argument beyond saying I think its wrong and some hand waving about slavery. If they were right, yes it would and the moment someone proves to me that cows are self-aware creatures with a full consciousness I will be on the front-lines defending their right to life. ---
**Author:** ![Muad\_Dib](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/35a633/32.png) [@Muad\_Dib](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muad_Dib)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-abortion-protesters/297649/134 "2005-04-05T05:01:01Z")
> [@lel](#): > > Those who prefer the ability to choose usually don’t see it as not understanding that murder is going on, but rather not considering such to be murder. I know, that is the point and that is the problem. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-abortion-protesters/297649/135 "2005-04-05T05:02:40Z")
> [@Jeep's Phoenix](#): > > When come back, bring grammar book. I’m sorry, but the sentence you quoted is entirely grammatically correct… ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-abortion-protesters/297649/136 "2005-04-05T05:03:41Z")
> [@treis](#): > > However assuming that is a logical fallacy becuase you are assuming the conclusion of your argument namely that the fetus is a human life that needs protection. I assume nothing. A fetus is a human life that needs protection. ---
**Author:** ![Muad\_Dib](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/35a633/32.png) [@Muad\_Dib](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muad_Dib)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-abortion-protesters/297649/137 "2005-04-05T05:07:19Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Why don’t you understand that what you think is not necessarily what is? > > :rolleyes: > > Do you have any understanding at all of moral or ethical arguments? I wonder the same about you. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-abortion-protesters/297649/138 "2005-04-05T05:09:12Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Why don’t you give the money to Muad’Dib’s sister? After all, you should be taking credit for the child’s existence as well, by your reasoning? > > Or is the only choice you favor the one than ends in a dead child? Sometimes dead is better than alive. There’s nothing inherently sacred about human life apart from the sentience we posess. ---
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-abortion-protesters/297649/139 "2005-04-05T05:09:17Z")
> [@andros](#): > > I’m sorry, but the sentence you quoted is entirely grammatically correct… Well, it was making about as much sense as the rest of his posts… ---
**Author:** ![inkleberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f17d59/32.png) [@inkleberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inkleberry)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-abortion-protesters/297649/140 "2005-04-05T05:12:25Z")
> [@Muad'Dib](#): > > Many people don’t really feel to strongly about abortion because it is something you never have to see. It is kept behind the white sanatized walls of a doctors office. Posters like that force people to face the ugly truth about abortion, that it is the killing of unborn children. Most of those “unborn children” in the photos are rubber dolls. The remenants of abortions are more like a thick jelly. Anything below 12 weeks is suctioned out, and considering the fragility of a 12 week or less fetus, nothing would be left to see, even with a D&C. This is why women report only large clots during 1st trimester miscarriage. The remenants of 2nd trimester abortions are almost always pulverized by the methods used and the softness of the fetus. Finally, check out the SIZE of those “unborn babies” in the pics. My son was smaller than many at birth. Moreover, the sizes portrayed in no way correlate to the size of actual fetuses, unless of course they are the spawn of giants. You want me to listen? Stop coating toys in fake blood. I’ve _seen_ abortion remanents, they are small tupperwares of blood - like all of a period in one glop. Not very interesting. Terrible pie filling. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-abortion-protesters/297649/141 "2005-04-05T05:12:53Z")
> [@milroyj](#): > > I assume nothing. A fetus is a human life that needs protection. Fine. By what logic did you come to the conclusion that a fetus is a human life that needs protection. > [@Maud'Dib](#): > > I wonder the same about you. Why becuase I haven’t fallen back on the “I’m right becuase I think I am right” argument? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-abortion-protesters/297649.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-abortion-protesters/297649.md?page=8)