# Damn, Bill. Can't you take a pill? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 11, 2004, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bill-cant-you-take-a-pill/249898 "2004-06-11T23:24:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2004, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bill-cant-you-take-a-pill/249898/61 "2004-06-12T19:31:21Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > I But I guess he was a friend of the Reagans for many years, so I guess he wanted to share his own thoughts. Still, I think it was inappropriate. I’m a purist on this point. Fergit random camera shots of family and attendees at the funeral. Funerals are mixed celebrations of life and mourning its loss, and focusing too closely on the real human process behind the ceremony doesn’t reveal much of substance, no matter how unavoidably public the services. IMO most people are whipsawed by fatigue, grief, awkwardness, respect, sympathy, memories, the whole stew. Cameras just capture glimpses without nuances. I give full props to Reagan’s children for gracefully paying tribute to their father at his death, fond humor and all. And no fault should be implied to attendees who lapsed into like moments of celebration or moments of reflection about mortality. I _do_ find fault with with the pastor’s performance. His personal encounters with the deceased weren’t all that relevant. His appointed role was to act as a spiritual filter, encompassing everything mourners said toward the official farewell into the unknown. He upstaged the deceased, and the occassion. And THAT was tacky. Veb ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2004, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bill-cant-you-take-a-pill/249898/62 "2004-06-12T22:36:28Z")
> [@](#): > > But I am highly offput by Clinton’s apparent habit of inappropriately lighthearted conversation, complete with laughter, at funerals. It really is quite disturbing. Yeah, that Nancy Reagan is a real bitch too. Smiling and laughing from time to time. How rude! ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2004, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bill-cant-you-take-a-pill/249898/63 "2004-06-12T22:37:54Z")
> [@TVeblen](#): > > I give full props to Reagan’s children for gracefully paying tribute to their father at his death, fond humor and all. > Veb What did you think of Ron Reagan’s swipe at George Bush Jr.? ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2004, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bill-cant-you-take-a-pill/249898/64 "2004-06-12T22:42:22Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > You’re one to talk, oh knower of who had cold relations with Nancy Reagan. You don’t need to be a mind-reader to watch the news, listen to her family talk, listen to her aides talk, know anything about the history of the Reagan and Bush clans, etc. You do to know whether someone is sleeping or praying or listening with their eyes closed just from a few camera cuts. Or maybe you just have to be eager to see what you want to see for whatever reason. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2004, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bill-cant-you-take-a-pill/249898/65 "2004-06-12T22:46:54Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > You do to know whether someone is sleeping or praying or listening with their eyes closed just from a few camera cuts. Or maybe you just have to be eager to see what you want to see for whatever reason. I still find it hard to believe that both the Clintons AND the woman behind them ALL happened to be sleeping at exactly the same time. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2004, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bill-cant-you-take-a-pill/249898/66 "2004-06-12T22:47:13Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > What did you think of Ron Reagan’s swipe at George Bush Jr.? Can you elaborate on this please? I did not watch the funeral. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2004, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bill-cant-you-take-a-pill/249898/67 "2004-06-12T23:37:38Z")
I’m glad someone else found the pastor’s remarks were inappropriate. After what appeared to be an almost flawlessly planned week of memorializing, I thought perhaps my negative reaction to the pastor was misguided. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2004, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bill-cant-you-take-a-pill/249898/68 "2004-06-13T00:19:32Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I know it’s a funeral, **vanilla** , but are you expecting everyone to come in, sit down, and cry the whole time? It’s a social gathering and people talk and laugh before they get down to business. I never complained about that, you are thinking of another poster. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2004, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bill-cant-you-take-a-pill/249898/69 "2004-06-13T00:42:50Z")
Ron Reagan said this: > [@](#): > > Dad was also a deeply, unabashedly religious man. But he never made the fatal mistake of so many politicians, wearing his faith on his sleeve to gain political advantage. True, after he was shot and nearly killed early in his presidency, he came to believe that God had spared him in order that he might do good. But he accepted that as a responsibility, not a mandate. And there is a profound difference. Given that there has been a lot of talk, true or not, of Bush thinking he has a mandate from God, this is a pretty direct swipe. Dunno what other politicians he might be reffering to. Ron Reagan has also made no secret of despising GW and his attempts to appropriate the gravitas of his father into his own schemes. > [@](#): > > “Yes, some of the current policies are an extension of the '80s. But the overall thrust of this administration is not my father’s – these people are overly reaching, overly aggressive, overly secretive, and just plain corrupt. I don’t trust these people.” > > … > > "My father had decades of experience in public life. He was president of his union, he campaigned for presidential candidates, he served two terms as governor of California – and that was not a ceremonial office as it is in Texas. And he had already run for president, against Ford in '76, nearly unseating the sitting president in his own party. He knew where he was coming from, he had spent years thinking and speaking about his views. He didn’t have to ask Dick Cheney what he thought. > > “Sure, he wasn’t a technocrat like Clinton. But my father was a man – that’s the difference between him and Bush. To paraphrase Jack Palance, my father crapped bigger ones than George Bush.” ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2004, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bill-cant-you-take-a-pill/249898/70 "2004-06-13T00:50:36Z")
He didn’t actually say that at the _funeral_, did he? About “crapping bigger ones that Bush”? Now THAT’s a eulogy! ---
**Author:** ![Hamish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a5b964/32.png) [@Hamish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamish)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2004, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bill-cant-you-take-a-pill/249898/71 "2004-06-13T01:05:14Z")
> [@furt](#): > > I watched the whole thing on TV, and they twice showed him with his eyes closed. IIRC one was during Mulroney (who was dull; actually they all were) and the other was during a reading or something. Mulroney was there? Well, that is rather sweet, the Reagan family inviting the hired help. Very egalitarian of them. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2004, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bill-cant-you-take-a-pill/249898/72 "2004-06-13T01:46:54Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > He didn’t actually say that at the _funeral_, did he? About “crapping bigger ones that Bush” No, of course, that’s an earlier quote from Ron Jr. about Bush the Current. The top quote about not acting like he had God’s mandate is what was in the eulogy. And as for Clinton, come on, this is really grasping. One thing I’ve noticed is that if you’re halfway through a hectic day, and suddenly you’re put in a position of enforced stillness for an hour, you WILL drift, no matter how animated you were earlier. Now, if he had nodded off completely, pitched forward and headbutted Dick Cheney, that would have been crassly inappropriate. Hysterically funny, but crassly inappropriate. Hey, presidents and former presidents are human. They fall asleep during papal audiences and state funerals, they throw up on the Japanese PM’s shoes, they bang their heads on the AF1 forward hatchway, they choke on pretzels. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2004, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bill-cant-you-take-a-pill/249898/73 "2004-06-13T02:18:53Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Hey, presidents and former presidents are human. Cite? 😃 The last paragraph of your post sure put everything into perspective. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2004, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bill-cant-you-take-a-pill/249898/74 "2004-06-13T06:33:14Z")
_Ron Reagan:_ “Yes, some of the current policies are an extension of the '80s. But the overall thrust of this administration is not my father’s – these people are overly reaching, overly aggressive, overly secretive, and just plain corrupt. I don’t trust these people.” Wow, if John Kerry had said that, the right-wing insta-pundits would’ve been screaming for his head. I guess being the son of St. Ron has its advantages… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2004, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bill-cant-you-take-a-pill/249898/75 "2004-06-13T09:52:20Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > You don’t need to be a mind-reader to watch the news, listen to her family talk, listen to her aides talk, know anything about the history of the Reagan and Bush clans, etc. Oh, you’re far too talented to need news or family. I’ve never been on the news. You’ve never heard my family talk. I have no aides. And you know next to nothing of my history. It can only have been your super powers that led you to discern my OP as “eagerly manufactured outrage”. Of course, in your boundless humility, you will no doubt attribute your abilities to more mundane causes, such as a logical mind superior to my own. ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2004, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bill-cant-you-take-a-pill/249898/76 "2004-06-13T16:02:42Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > What did you think of Ron Reagan’s swipe at George Bush Jr.? I thought it was fine. He was defining what set his father’s piety apart from others who seek to claim it by association. I saw it as defending his father’s reputation. IMO it was well and gracefully done. Veb ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2004, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bill-cant-you-take-a-pill/249898/77 "2004-06-13T16:51:33Z")
How utterly dreadful…Bill Clinton is spotted looking mildly inattentive for an indeterminate period of time at an enormously long public funeral. Clearly, this man’s evil nature knows no bounds. It’s hard to even imagine how anecdotes about Reagan could ever get stale, or how praising the man’s thoroughly immaculate presidency could ever become less than completely and utterly riveting. Malefic demon-spawn that he is, Clinton is probably the sort of Communist traitor that would go so far as to roll his eyes at the suggestion that Reagan’s image shouldn’t be immediately slathered all over America’s currency and national landmarks, or that the public adulation currently dominating our media shouldn’t be extended indefinitely. Who does this so-called “Clinton” think he is, anyway? After all, Reagan was elected for two terms, whereas Clinton was elected for only two. Reagan, of course, was famous in life for his laser-like acumen and ability to focus for hours on any topic in any situation, like some kind of superintelligent being from the future, so any display of boredom or distraction at his funeral is doubly out of place. Whatever one’s opinion of Reagan, it is inarguable that he was the embodiment of pure good, and nothing but paeans to his character and achievements should ever be permitted. Personally, I hope that all Americans will visit Reagan’s grave at least once to paean him. ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2004, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bill-cant-you-take-a-pill/249898/78 "2004-06-13T17:14:03Z")
> [@Terrifel](#): > > Personally, I hope that all Americans will visit Reagan’s grave at least once to paean him. Leaving politics entirely aside, this line cracked me the hell up. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2004, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bill-cant-you-take-a-pill/249898/79 "2004-06-13T17:25:31Z")
Me too! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2004, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bill-cant-you-take-a-pill/249898/80 "2004-06-13T17:57:19Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Oh, you’re far too talented to need news or family. I’ve never been on the news. You’ve never heard my family talk. I have no aides. And you know next to nothing of my history. It can only have been your super powers that led you to discern my OP as “eagerly manufactured outrage”. Of course, in your boundless humility, you will no doubt attribute your abilities to more mundane causes, such as a logical mind superior to my own. Nothing so special. I need only watch it’s manufacture right before my very eyes. Based on evidence that is, at best, inconclusive, you decided to be outraged at two brief shots of Clinton where his eyes were closed. Working up a pit thread for that takes some doing, especially because in this context its a pretty nasty and charged atmosphere to want to help along. And there is a pattern: I still think you grossly misrepresented the Wellstone funeral as well, for what reasons I have no idea since, no, I can’t read your mind, but don’t need the reasons to think the carrying on is unjustified. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bill-cant-you-take-a-pill/249898.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bill-cant-you-take-a-pill/249898.md?page=5)