# Damn! bombing in Madrid **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 11, 2004, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bombing-in-madrid/233725 "2004-03-11T16:46:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bombing-in-madrid/233725/21 "2004-03-11T21:44:53Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > [Al-Qaida strikes again.](http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=4550469§ion=news) > > Looks like I may be getting a job again, sooner than expected. Fuckers. That´s it, Aznar _is_ toast. ---
**Author:** ![Martha\_Medea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/43a26b/32.png) [@Martha\_Medea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martha_Medea)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bombing-in-madrid/233725/22 "2004-03-11T21:45:10Z")
That’s why they were so keen to pin it on ETA. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bombing-in-madrid/233725/23 "2004-03-11T21:49:14Z")
> [@Ale](#): > > If Al Qaeda did this, Aznar is toast. a) Aznar is pretty much “toast” anyway, considering he’s not standing for reelection on Sunday. Yes, I’m being picky. b) I don’t quite see why. After all, it wasn’t just the PP who thought it was ETA: it was everybody. And Aznar was in favour of the War On Terrorism\TM\, unlike 90% of his fellow citizens. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bombing-in-madrid/233725/24 "2004-03-11T21:49:18Z")
To be fair, _everyone_ in Spain, as far as I can determine from the radio and television interviews I was listening to all day, assumed it was ETA. Aznar’s retiring anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bombing-in-madrid/233725/25 "2004-03-11T22:07:02Z")
> [@ruadh](#): > > To be fair, _everyone_ in Spain, as far as I can determine from the radio and television interviews I was listening to all day, assumed it was ETA. Aznar’s retiring anyway. Aznar or rather the conservatives are not toast on account of this. On the contrary they stand to gain in the upcommin election, espicially if it’s ETA - but also if Al Qaeda. EMail sent to English newspaper purportedly from Al Qaeda claims responsibility. This on the other hand is not Al Qaeda M.O. Fucking sick bastards in any case - time for some more stomping! They understand one language only: unrelenting force. - Rune ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bombing-in-madrid/233725/26 "2004-03-11T22:11:50Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > And Aznar was in favour of the War On Terrorism\TM\, unlike 90% of his fellow citizens. That´s exactly why he´s toast. I´m sure that if Aznar wouldn´t have embraced GWB “War on Terror” this wouldn´t have happened; terrorism should be prosecuted, but “the War on Terror” IMO is counterproductive, basically consist of pissing off a lot of people, it´s like shooting a beehive to get rid of bees. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bombing-in-madrid/233725/27 "2004-03-11T22:16:28Z")
> [@WinstonSmith](#): > > This on the other hand is not Al Qaeda M.O. Really? If multiple attacks coordinated to happen at the same time with a maximum amount of death and damage isn’t their MO than what is? ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bombing-in-madrid/233725/28 "2004-03-11T22:22:43Z")
…one more time. Hamsters are hungry this afternoon. A letter reportedly from al-Qaeda says that a “Black Death” attack against America is 90% ready. Assuming for the moment that “Black Death” refers to some sort of biotoxic or other WMD-scale attack, what can they possibly hope to gain? I may be mistaken, but I would think that even the world’s most reluctant militaries would scour the planet enthusiastically for al-Qaeda in the wake of a large-scale WMD attack. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bombing-in-madrid/233725/29 "2004-03-11T22:23:25Z")
> [@ruadh](#): > > Thanks, but that still doesn’t say that ETA themselves have denied responsibility. That’s the best you’re going to get from the ETA, I’m afraid. Has Al- Qada denied responsibility? Has the PLO? The Red Brigade? How about Carlos ‘The Jackal’ & Asian Dawn? Regardless of the fact that any terrorist group seems to be composed of angry people with little or no concern as to the dinner digestion of the middle class during the 6pm news, denying responsibility for bombings is low on the To-Do list. They’re in the business of generating publicity & terror for their cause and a slow denial costs them nothing, yet gets their name (cause) in the newspapers. Besides if the world had perfect knowledge of all terrorist groups, the world would rapidly run out of terrorist groups… ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bombing-in-madrid/233725/30 "2004-03-11T22:24:00Z")
> [@Ale](#): > > That´s exactly why he´s toast. > > I´m sure that if Aznar wouldn´t have embraced GWB “War on Terror” this wouldn´t have happened; terrorism should be prosecuted, but “the War on Terror” IMO is counterproductive, basically consist of pissing off a lot of people, it´s like shooting a beehive to get rid of bees. IYO right, not so in the opinion of most others. Aznar has been tough on ETA and international terrorism. His ETA stand has been massively popular - moreso if it turns out to be ETA behind the latest massacre. I recon his international stand would likewise be more popular if it turns out to be Islamists. No politican with a wish to be elected would try for appeasement now. Anyway, if your guns are too small to get rid of the bees with the beehive, try dynamite or napalm, that’ll get rid of them damn bees real quick. In any case a fitting analogy. Destroy the beehive, drain the swamps - that’s the only solution. Swatting a few bees now and then will only enrage them more. - Rune ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bombing-in-madrid/233725/31 "2004-03-11T22:27:18Z")
> [@adam yax](#): > > Really? If multiple attacks coordinated to happen at the same time with a maximum amount of death and damage isn’t their MO than what is? I meant the taking responsibility is not al-Qaeda standard practise. They’re usally mum. The wantom destruction and indiscrimate killing on the other hand; hand in a glove. - Rune ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bombing-in-madrid/233725/32 "2004-03-11T22:29:30Z")
> [@quietman1920](#): > > That’s the best you’re going to get from the ETA, I’m afraid. The only reason I’m looking for a denial from ETA is because several posters have said that ETA issued a denial. Apparently, they didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bombing-in-madrid/233725/33 "2004-03-11T23:27:46Z")
> [@WinstonSmith](#): > > Anyway, if your guns are too small to get rid of the bees with the beehive, try dynamite or napalm, that’ll get rid of them damn bees real quick. In any case a fitting analogy. Destroy the beehive, drain the swamps - that’s the only solution. Swatting a few bees now and then will only enrage them more. > > - Rune I see. :rolleyes: So after invading two countries and sent thousands to a premature death, but still terrorsits are at large, how can you escalate that into a definitive solution? Nuke the ME to kingdom come? (“Destroy the beehive”) intern all Muslims in prison camps? (“Drain the swamps”) Kill ´em all is not and won´t work unless you take it literal and _kill ´em all_, at which point you should stop and ponder who the good and bad boys are. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bombing-in-madrid/233725/34 "2004-03-11T23:28:25Z")
> [@ruadh](#): > > The only reason I’m looking for a denial from ETA is because several posters have said that ETA issued a denial. Apparently, they didn’t. All I’ve found so far is that they haven’t claimed responsibilty. Quote from _El Pais_: [http://www.elpais.es/articulo.html?xref=20040311elpepunac\_11&type=Tes&anchor=elpporesp](http://www.elpais.es/articulo.html?xref=20040311elpepunac_11&type=Tes&anchor=elpporesp) \*Aunque ETA no se ha atribuido los atentados, Acebes ha recordado que los terroristas “no suelen reivindicar” sus ataques inmediatamente. \* trans. "Although ETA has not claimed responsibility for the attacks, [Spanish Interior Minister] Acebes has reminded that the terrorists “don’t usually take responsibility” immediately for their attacks. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bombing-in-madrid/233725/35 "2004-03-12T02:05:28Z")
> [@](#): > > _Eva Luna said_ > All I’ve found so far is that they haven’t claimed responsibilty What about the Arnaldo Otegi (leader of the banned Basque political party Batasuna) comments mentioned by quietman? From the BBC: > [@](#): > > The leader of the banned Basque political party Batasuna, Arnaldo Otegi, blamed “Arab resistance”. > > “Eta has always issued a warning whenever it left a bomb to explode,” he said, adding: “Spain maintains occupation forces in Iraq and we should not forget that it had a responsibility for the war in Iraq.” I guess Batasuna aren’t direct spokesman, but it still seems better than an anonymous phone call. ---
**Author:** ![syncrolecyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@syncrolecyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/syncrolecyne)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bombing-in-madrid/233725/36 "2004-03-12T05:57:08Z")
So basically the “Basque spokesman” is saying they weren’t resposible, but Spain deserved it anyway…what a bastard. I am sure no one on those trains actually had a thing to do with Aznar’s foreign policy. Frankly, most terrorists are people with homicidal urges who justify their love of killing by cloaking it in some political cause. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bombing-in-madrid/233725/37 "2004-03-12T06:18:44Z")
> [@Ale](#): > > I see. :rolleyes: > So after invading two countries and sent thousands to a premature death, but still terrorsits are at large, how can you escalate that into a definitive solution? Nuke the ME to kingdom come? (“Destroy the beehive”) **intern all Muslims in prison camps?** (“Drain the swamps”) > > Kill ´em all is not and won´t work unless you take it literal and _kill ´em all_, at which point you should stop and ponder who the good and bad boys are. Obviously that wont work in the ME , but it may yeild results where muslims form minority enclaves in the western world . Make em pick one side of the fence and deal with them legally , and disrupt their logistics networks. Declan ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bombing-in-madrid/233725/38 "2004-03-12T06:27:35Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > From CNN: > > > [@](#): > > > > Spain’s interior minister said authorities are investigating a van found with eight detonators and an Arabic tape with Koranic teachings to determine if it is related to the bombings on commuter trains in Madrid that killed at least 190 people. > > Sounds suspiciously easy to me, but our ol’ buddies in al Qaeda might be back in bidness. When I read that this morning, I thought of Sam Vimes and said to myself “Where’s the sand?” Yeah, it might turn out that al Qaeda is behind this after all, but how convenient - detonators and the Koran on tape. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bombing-in-madrid/233725/39 "2004-03-12T06:44:01Z")
> [@cazzle](#): > > When I read that this morning, I thought of Sam Vimes and said to myself “Where’s the sand?” > > Yeah, it might turn out that al Qaeda is behind this after all, but how convenient - detonators and the Koran on tape. Why the suspision? If it was Al Queda, then surely you realize those guys are all hopped up on Allah. Probably have a ‘Mohammad is my Copilot’ bumpersticker on their cars. Regardless, [it seems that they have claimed responsibility.](http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=GQKAXSJXJIK3ICRBAEOCFFA?type=topNews&storyID=4551138) ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bombing-in-madrid/233725/40 "2004-03-12T08:12:11Z")
Of course, if it _is_ the work of _al Qaeda,_ then the bombing is also solid evidence that Bush’s “war on terror” has not been successful. Though I’m sure there will be no limit to the number of Bush apologists who will brand any such analysis as exploiting the tragedy, even as they prepare yet another “Remember 9/11 – vote Bush” TV commercial… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bombing-in-madrid/233725.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bombing-in-madrid/233725.md?page=3)